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Don't want to be gay

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by DAXIII, Oct 26, 2016.

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  1. Barbatus

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    It isn't just a case of vulnerability, it is also a case of confidence. A lot of people are just not very confident so they hesitate to explain how they feel. What you are saying about cues, while true, is also not the complete picture. People cannot always tell what someone if thinking or feeling just by cues. It happens that sometimes you joke with someone who takes it really seriously and reacts badly and then you are like WTF and it turns out there is a reason behind it but it just isn't obvious nor was it obvious they were in that mood. Social interactions are a skill they are not innate. So the continue with the dance metaphor, everyone has to learn to dance, some might be quicker learning it or talented and they just do it better while others have to learn in a painstaking fashion simply to get the basics. It takes effort and time.

    Regarding the ignoring things - it has happened to me, I think of it as lost words, where you say something and no one reacts. However, it sounds like you are talking about people deliberately ignoring you. Can you provide some context to these occurrences? I would just point out that some people are just rude and ignore you not for anything you have done and if people ignore when you are working as a cashier - that just goes with the territory. I have worked the last few years as a cashier and some customers are blatantly rude and ignore you. So discounting those situations who are the people who ignore you? It may be that you'll want to try and be more assertive if people do that, something like 'actually I was just talking you and its very rude of you to ignore/treat me like that', but maybe not right now if you don't have the confidence to be assertive in person.
     
  2. DAXIII

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    Calling them out on it just makes you look needy and kind of like a jerk.

    And there is no context needed, it happens in every conversation. I even wait until they are done and when I try they just ignore me
     
  3. Barbatus

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    Calling them out on it is you asserting yourself. And it doesn't make you like needy, you can simply point it out and walk off. Besides they are being fucking rude if they ignore you.

    In every conversation you have in person? Because it obviously doesn't happen here and you seemed to suggest that it doesn't happen to you online. So, provide an example or two and we can look at how you might respond to assert yourself. It might also be worth thinking whether you behave differently online or whether you are more confident - then you can think about how to use that in real life. It might be that you and the people you speak to are more direct which might help with the Asperger's because no one online cannot rely on visible cues.
     
  4. Nickw

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    Hey DAX

    The approach I am describing will have failures. Some folks just don't want to engage with other people. Maybe they are shy, or distracted, or rude or stuck up. Who knows. The trick is to not get too invested in a conversation succeeding before it starts. Because if you do, it will never be good enough. I do this all the time and I really have to watch myself from building false expectations.

    I don't know how your Aspergers influences these interactions. I would guess it makes it a lot harder. I assume there are support groups for high functioning Aspergers folks? Have you tried this? I also wonder if there are counselors who specialize in this. More like training exercises than counseling. I could see how you would get turned off by classical psychotherapy and need something that is more direct.

    I know that when I was in the oil industry, the guys that went to the mideast took lessons in daily interactions with the local folks. These involved situational training exercises. I may be way off base here. If I am, I totally apologize. But, it almost seems like you could use some supervised practice with just the basics of small talk to get you started. You are obviously very bright and can interact well in the written world.
     
  5. Justletgo

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    I see your anger. I've been there. I'm still there, a bit. I feel bad for you right now. None of us asked for this. But, here we are. I highly recommend a therapist. You should be able to vent all of your anger and frustration. Over and over again. In your own way. In time, I think you will start to put things together. Only you can draw your own conclusions. We are here to listen and support you. Till then, best of luck.
     
  6. DAXIII

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    Internet forums don't count.

    Also it's not asserting yourself, it's bring a jerk. All the times I have seen it it never turns out well. And yes it's only in person
     
  7. Ryler

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    Could it be possible that some of these people that you speak to are not actually disinterested in what you have to say, but your Aspergers is affecting the way that you see their body language/nonverbal, so you misread it and THINK they are disinterested when they actually are not? I'm not trying to doubt you, because I'm not the one that's actually there to see the interaction, but I just wanted to point out that maybe your Aspergers is affecting your viewpoint on the people around you.

    I've had some social anxieties before that really caused me to tense up when I speak to new people or a group. I knew that they were willing to listen to me, but something in my brain just always puts me into a "fight or flight" mode and gets my heart pounding like a drum. It took me some time, but I got over it through exposure and not putting too much emphasis on the interaction. I got out of my shell and forced myself to talk to people even if they can physically see my anxiety. I've improved a lot and now speak to others without actually having much anxiety. Although, there are still some times when my heart starts pounding, but I don't actually show it. Just keep going out there and speak with other people. If they are uninterested, then so be it. You can just move on to the next person that will listen to you.
     
    #187 Ryler, Nov 4, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
  8. DAXIII

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    Trust me, it's pretty hard to mistake their ignoring me for anything else. There is no misreading that, even if it is someone with aspergers.
     
  9. Ryler

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    I guess the only reason I even suggested that possibility was because I can't fathom anybody just completely ignoring someone else that's genuinely trying to strike up a conversation. That is just a rude and asshole thing to do, but I guess that shouldn't surprise me because the world is filled with those type of people. You just learn to push them aside and not give them any of your time. Even if I'm uninterested in something that is being said to me, I still give them my attention no matter what. I know I keep saying this, but I want you to know that not everybody is like the people that you met. :/
     
  10. Barbatus

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    Hi DAXIII,

    Internet forums do count because they are built around social interaction. Don't start rejecting out of hand everything said you again. Take the issue of asserting yourself, if you keep insisting on seeing assertion as being a jerk you will prevent yourself from being assertive before you even try it. As someone who claims to value rationality highly then think about how irrational it is to approach solving practical problems by shooting down every practical options available to you before you've tried them and tried learning from them. To improve your interactions in person and to deal with people who are jerks you need to take practical steps to do so.

    As both Nickw and Ryler have said it is a slow process and you have to take it one step at a time, there will be setbacks but that is life all over and if you refuse to take actions that can remedy that then you won't be able to improve things. You have to take responsibility for the actions you can and will have to take if you, like everyone else, want to learn to improve your social interactions.
     
  11. DAXIII

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    Internet forums don't count because there aren't any social rules on them. Is completely different from face to face interactions. It's like saying texting and speaking in person are the same (they could not be more different). You aren't interacting with a body but a rectangle with words written on it. Sorry but you are most certainly wrong about that.

    I do value rationality and I know what you are proposing is irrational as I have seen it never goes well when others try it. It doesn't make you strong, it has the opposite effect. You appear needy and seeking attention.

    It's not even jerks who do it, it's everyone. So unless EVERYONE is a jerk (highly unlikely), it's me and not them.
     
    #191 DAXIII, Nov 5, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  12. Linkmaste

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    Everyone is a jerk to an extent.
     
  13. Barbatus

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    Like I've said DAXIII, you have to take action in your life and if you get into a mindset where you prevent yourself from developing the skills and activities that will make you happy you will be stuck mentally where you are now for a long time.

    If you want help with specific practical things then say so but you are going to have to put in the time and effort to make those steps work. And there will be setbacks but you've got to overcome those setbacks if you ever want to be happy and confident in your life.
     
  14. DAXIII

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    Frankly I have tried in the past and having no success leads me to believe that it's just not for me. People don't want to speak to me and I'm too strange for other folks anyhow.

    And as for being gay, I'm sorry but it's just not my thing. I don't like sex with guys and I would prefer it to be with women. I find the female form appealing but I don't get sexually aroused by it. I am remiss in that if I did marry a woman I wouldn't be able to sexually please her and that would put a strain on things. But I don't find a relationship with a guy appearing though, especially that despite having sexual attraction towards them I don't like having sex with them (experience has been pretty bad). So I guess I'm just stuck like this unable to change and being frustrated that my feels don't match my desires
     
  15. Barbatus

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    So there's two issue you are trying to deal with. One is being gay and the other is general socialising and making friends. It's been pretty much established that you don't want to change your thinking about being gay (although your past experiences don't necessarily mean that more positive experiences aren't possible) so maybe focus on the social side of things.

    Do you want to discuss what you've tried before? As you (along with everyone else) have to learn and develop social skills you have use a trial and error approach. You've found that pretending to be someone you aren't doesn't work for you so you need to try and be yourself but find people who are like minded or slowly build up a relationship with someone. If you want to we can try and see why your previous efforts haven't worked so you can try different things in the future. Just bear in mind that there will be some people you don't get on with regardless of any socialisation skills you develop.
     
  16. Alein

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    i'm sorry to hear its so hard for you. I'm just about to admit myself that i'm gay and i thought the confusion will go away but i kinda feel the same way about sex with men :frowning2: i hope there is a solution.
     
  17. DAXIII

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    You don't understand. Being someone I'm not is the only way to get near people. I have spoken to people before but they just ignore me shortly after. I speak up and everything but no one listens.

    And no, I have too much experience with aspects of being gay to enjoy it. I know the way I am and being gay isn't part of that. It's a hinderance.
     
  18. Barbatus

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    "You don't understand. Being someone I'm not is the only way to get near people. I have spoken to people before but they just ignore me shortly after. I speak up and everything but no one listens."

    Without a set of examples of these situations no one can suggest any alternatives or see why people might be behaving that way. Can you give us a number of examples?
     
  19. DAXIII

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    I mean it was just a regular discussion about a game we all played. I was trying to make a point about something we were talking about and then suddenly I get ignored and they have their own conversation. I keep trying to find a moment to cut in with something since I knew what we were discussing well but no dice
     
  20. Romancer

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    I don't think you want to be with a woman...you want to want to be with a woman. And I'm sorry, but the bottom line is if you are gay your are gay and there's no way on earth to change that. What you CAN change is your attitude toward being gay. You ask why people think it's so great to be gay. It's not that they feel that being gay is so great, what IS so great is being who you really are and the magnificent sense of freedom that comes from that.

    You will only continue to make yourself miserable if you continue living a life that is a lie.

    What is so terrible about being gay? I bet that your answers to that will all be about what other people feel about being gay, what society thinks about being gay. Being gay is really no better or worse than being anything else...it's just the way you are.

    What if you lived in a society where most people didn't care if you are gay? Would you still hate yourself for being a homosexual? Probably not. You need to stop caring quite so much what other people think. You can't let other people's thought determine who you are. It's just not right.
     
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