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Don't want to be gay

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by DAXIII, Oct 26, 2016.

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  1. Sailaway2020

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    If being gay is who you are it's who you are you can't change who your attracted to even one of the biggest conversion repetitive therapy organizations closed its doors after 10 years because they realized you can't change your sexuality I am learning to be proud of my sexuality I don't let it define who I am because I know I am so much more then that it's society that teaches you that it is wrong I still struggle but it gets better everyday it's been easier tho since I have came out to my Parents and my Brother and they don't see me any different and people that do I don't need them in my life there toxic
     
  2. DAXIII

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    Who can say how I became this way. I didn't ask for aspergers either but there's nothing I can do about that. It makes life needlessly difficult and if I could change it I would.
     
  3. Joelouis

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    I thought the same thing a while back. Whilst I do understand he doesn't want to be gay, it does seem to me (and I'm sure, others), that he just wants to throw an obstacle in the way of every suggestion or advice he is given.
     
  4. DAXIII

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    Because they aren't saying how to do it.
     
  5. killswitch0029

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    My point exactly. To be blunt about the situation, what came across as a simple question in the beginning is now coming across to me as intentional ignorance. I find that a thread involving a very serious topic that many people that are a part of this site and even many that visit to read the threads has become a soap opera and seems to be doing more harm than good.
     
  6. DAXIII

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    If it has been it's because of how vague the support is. Accept it but they don't say how, and the information isn't any different than what other places already say (and even they don't tell you how to accept it). They tell you how to come out, but they can't tell you how to accept it.

    ---------- Post added 4th Nov 2016 at 02:56 AM ----------

    I also can't help but wonder if (given so many views and the title) that people aren't just looking for a way to not be this way. Maybe they don't want the kind of help you think they need.
     
    #166 DAXIII, Nov 3, 2016
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  7. I'm gay

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    DAXIII,

    I think this thread has reached its end. You don't want to be helped, you only want to argue. And we're all done banging our heads on the wall trying. :bang:

    People come here looking for help. We are NEVER going to suggest to people that they should try to change their sexuality, or to marry someone they have no attraction for, or deny who they really are. It's just not the mission of this site. If someone is looking for a way to deny themselves and try reparative therapy, there are places to seek out that information and help, but we will never suggest it.

    I wish you well.

    By the way OP: my signature is the truest thing in this whole thread.
     
  8. killswitch0029

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    Having read through this thread, I have seen advice on how to go about accepting it, with the end result being you cycling between telling people that their outlook is wrong or that they've "failed" by accepting their sexuality. I find your comments acting like your opinion is gospel and everyone else is clueless or wrong or trying to rationalize how "suicide is better than accepting your sexuality" to be arrogant and offensive.

    Not trying to be rude, but I'm not going to bite my tongue when you're putting out information that could be harmful to some questioning people who might be viewing this thread for advice on how to deal with their issues. Saying things like "I'll just kill myself if I can't turn straight" is not something someone should suggest on a website built around supporting LGBT individuals.

    I get that you may not necessarily agree with what people are telling you and you look at things from a more logical standpoint, but why continue to fuel the fire if you're just going to disregard everything?
     
  9. DAXIII

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    Because anything about it getting better is wrong. But I used to believe that. I used to be ok with it. I mean I wasn't thrilled about being careful in public with a potential BF but I could deal with that. What I couldn't deal with was everyone wanting you to be their version of gay just to make a statement or prove something (which seems like a common trend to me). Let yourself go, don't be straight acting, what are you repressing? Don't be a stereotype, why are you acting like that, don't talk that way. Why don't you like anal? If you try it you'll like it (I never did no matter how much practice I did).

    Pride is awful, it's like a magnification of not being one of them. Not to mention the BFs I always seem to find have a pretty large rift in worldviews that I cannot surmount. But I stayed with them because I doubted that I could find another guy who would like me let alone look at me. That ended up being disasterous in its own way.

    I honestly believed things would get better. But there's the difficultly around being with guy friends and managing those feelings, the pain of knowing that those you have most in common with are straight and there's no chance for a relationship, or how guys don't look twice unless you have the body. Not to mention that I'm sick of the online apps (desperation is thick on there, and to be honest I ended up that way too) and the only places around here are bars or clubs (such is south Florida).

    It's death by a thousand cuts. What started as Hope drained and bled away. Every divide between me and others just made it more painful and I regretted being gay. I was even jealous that I didn't get bullied for it, that nothing changed. It meant that there wasn't interesting or remarkable about me, no struggle. Just an easy coming out.

    And now despair sinks in. The opinions dwindle the older I get (considering there is an age thing in the gay community), I don't have any real prospects at the moment which means dating is off the table (I seem to notice a trend of elitism, college with the right degree, job, goal oriented, you name it). I wish I could rewind time back to my past relationships and just obliged their needs, then I wouldn't have to worry about being alone, I would completely submit my worldviews. The few activities that were gay friendly have been closing down, now it seems like a future of hookup apps and bathhouses (even if it's just my body at least it's nice to be wanted, even if it's a little creepy).

    So here I am, having done things I never thought I'd do just to fit in. The acts, the drama, now it makes sense why I see myself a puppet/doll. Sometimes I wonder if I never was gay I wouldn't have done all this. I wouldn't have compromised so much of my values just to draw people in. I wouldn't have felt the need to give up so much. Life could have been simpler, normal. I truly wish things were different. I had a girlfriend in high school, we even went to prom. It was a happy time. I liked her, but not romantically. But it was nice to live that dream world if only for a while, how I wished it would last. That we would be together. It was a hope that maybe the gay thing was a fluke. But it was never meant to be, I just couldn't be or give what she needed or wanted.
     
    #169 DAXIII, Nov 4, 2016
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  10. Ryler

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    I just wanted to echo the question by Quantum to make that point. None of us asked to be gay, we just are. I'm sure if there was an on/off button, a lot of people would probably hit the off button and choose not to be gay. Although, there might actually be some people that would remain gay because they are proud of it and they consider it a part of them that is unique and special. It's all in how you see yourself and view being gay. If you view it as an abominable disease that you must get rid of, then of course you'll hate it and want nothing to do with it. But if you view it as something that makes you special, then it can be empowering. Being gay is something that you can't get rid of. You can only mask it from other people through lies, while still suffering inside knowing who you truly are. You accept that you have Asperger, you can also accept that you are gay with time. Instead of viewing self acceptance as defeat, view it as a feat that allows you to truly be happy without worrying about what others think.

    I was miserable when I was in the closet, but was so happy after I came out. I was fortunate to have family and friends that were so accepting and supportive of it. I know there are lots of people out there that are not accepting of homosexuality, but they don't phase me because the only people that matter to me are the ones that DO accept me. Only reason I'm telling you this is because there ARE people out there that WILL ACCEPT you. Put the people that don't accept you behind and look forward to those that will be positive with you.
     
    #170 Ryler, Nov 4, 2016
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  11. DAXIII

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    "It gets better", more like "it can't possibly get worse".

    I accepted aspergers but that doesn't mean I like it. It sucks not knowing when your head is engaging in thinking patterns because you are caught up in it. Not to mention starting a conversation and not noticing critical cues socially. The hidden messages people take for granted and I'm blind to them, sigh.

    But no I am not open about aspergers. People finding that out would the the nail in my coffin. Especially in the gay community. If you think the body issue is bad, try telling people you have aspergers and see how many stay (hint, none at all). In school I didn't want to admit my handicap because I know people treat you differently when they know. I wanted to prove I could do what everyone else did without help, even though I could not I refused help because I didn't want to show weakness.
     
    #171 DAXIII, Nov 4, 2016
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  12. killswitch0029

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    Some of what you mention about the gay community is true in regards to visions and such, but realistically girls can be just as bad, if not worse, about trying to shape a guy into what they want. Like the gay community, the straight community is far from perfect. There are points in time where life does flat out suck. Everyone has things they wish they could go back and fix, but part of being human is dealing with what you've gotten and making something out of it. I don't know you personally, but surely you've done things and have some accomplishments that make you think to yourself "Yup, I did good."

    Looking at some of what you've posted above, self-esteem seems to be an issue that sticks out. I don't know if you've tried attending therapy, but if not it would probably be in your best interest to do so. If you have and it didn't work, find someone else. There's no such thing as a "one-size-fits-all-therapist." Whether you choose to do so or not I have no control over, but I'm just going to leave it at that and take my leave, but I genuinely hope you look past the pessimism and do try it out.
     
    #172 killswitch0029, Nov 4, 2016
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  13. Barbatus

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    We have discussed before the fact that parts of (perhaps even most of) the gay community can seek to impose stereotypes but so do straight communities. We have also discussed the fact that you cannot live your life by holding yourself to the standards of others. You cannot derive a sense of value for yourself from the approval of others. Yes the approval of others is nice and in a work place can be important but at the end of the day you cannot be happy if you allow yourself to be held hostage to the judgements of others.

    Take 'straight acting', which is a phrase I hate because it suggests pretense, I am not stereotypically gay at all. And I don't have a boyfriend and sometimes I feel very lonely because I get on well with straight guys and I don't meet many other gay people where I live. But straight people also have failed relationships and cycle through relationships they aren't committed to. While I would like a boyfriend I'm not going to change who I am just to fit in with potential boyfriends. Obviously, I would be considerate of the others needs because that is a relationship but I'm not going to start wearing rainbow bracelets, dye my hair or adopt any other stereotypical behaviours just to advertise that I'm gay because that isn't me.

    It sounds like your hatred of being gay comes from the failed relationships you've had in the past. But those problems with relationships happen to everyone, no relationship is a smooth ride and if you are acting out to fit in with them from the beginning then your relationship is inevitably going to fail because you will never feel that they are in a relationship with you.

    You need to let go of what others think of you and start to think about just being who you are. If you like roleplaying from your favourite anime shows join a LARP group, if you like swimming do that (you don't have to be on a team, I dislike swimming with others), if you feel that Asperger's is a major factor in your relationship problems what about an Apseger's support group or a social group for people with Asperger's and similar conditions. You've got to be honest in your interactions with others from the beginning if you want them to last - maybe that means you only have one or two friends but its better to have a couple of friends who you can trust and who know you than being a member of 20 clubs or trying to fit into a stereotype.
     
  14. DAXIII

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    The problem with being honest is that people always run when it happens. I don't really have an interested in LARP because there is just something about that which is unsettling to me. I have tried the whole "be yourself" but but it doesn't work. The only time I get others to speak to me or make something close to friends is when I don't act like me. I'm sorry but that advice hasn't ever worked for me. I'm trying to be realistic here and I would rather have company based on a mask than be alone being myself. You'd be amazed (and even I am too, shockingly) how long I can wear the facade.
    Also you have to have something to base self esteem on in order for that to work. I alas don't have anything to be proud of. When it comes to aspergers I'm in the minority of high functioning. So in other words it's just enough to not be crippling like most but not enough to fit in with others.

    But it's not the fact they failed, it's that when they did I knew I wouldn't be able to find another one so I tried to drag it out longer just to not be alone.

    And I hear what you say about others, but the thing is that loneliness starts to crush whatever self esteem you build up through that. It eats at you in a way that the feel good sensations start to fade and doubt comes in. We do derive our value and worth based on others, it's the reason LGBT are fighting for their rights and the reason why we seek out friends. I guess the judgment of others does in fact matter, even when we say that it doesn't (something I learned the hard way).

    There is a reason I put on the act, because people want the show and not the actor. I say that from much experience with interacting with others.
     
  15. Joelouis

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    DAXIII, your last few post in this thread have been so, so much better. I'd lay my life in saying there are many others on EC and in the LGBT+ "community" that feel pain very similar to what you are feeling right now.
    I said that I didn't want to be gay, but I refuse to live a false, straight life either.

    You've been further along the path than me as you have had BFs whereas I haven't.
    A straight relationship, for you or myself isn't going to be an option if we want an honest life. If a gay relationship is out of the question, then I think a celibate one is the only viable option.
     
  16. Nickw

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    Hey DAX

    I agree that your last couple of posts have provided much more clarity on you and, certainly, are less argumentative.

    I think there are a couple issues going on here that may, or may not, be causative and/or related. One is that you dislike your sexuality (the subject of this thread). The other is that you long for more human interaction of all types...you are lonely.

    The social world is not, necessarily, a friendly, and welcoming place. Chalk this up to societal development, evolution that favors tribal behavior, or even basic human nature and impulses.

    I wonder if you should put aside the issue of changing your sexuality for a bit and concentrate on why you are not finding the platonic relationships you want. I know that the Aspergers provides an increased level of complexity that I, cannot, understand. But, I do know the feeling of being alone in a crowd, feeling I do not belong. This had nothing to do with my sexuality. It was more my inability to communicate in a social setting to get to the point where I could make friends.

    I was desperate, So, I decided to just start to talking to people. Anywhere and anytime. The guy at the produce department in the grocery store, the kid on the bike path, the old lady in line at the bank. Not long conversations and mostly about the weather, or how hard it was to find a parking space or something. It seemed to me that I was capable of interacting if I didn't think to far into the future. And, it really helped if I assumed that the conversation would go nowhere. Then, I had nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    It worked. I was able to start the process of relating to people better and I expanded this to making friends. They didn't need to know any details about me to start with. Just that I was friendly and interested in what they had to say. Little by little, I started to develop relationships and real friendships.

    Once you can do this, maybe you can introduce the Aspergers to the mix. Honestly, ask your friend for his or her help in relating to them and reading their emotions. I don't have a single friend that wouldn't respond to this request. I think that you will find that as long as you don't test people and give them a chance you will get a more positive response than you have been getting. You just need to give them a real chance and not be in a hurry to say..."that didn't work I quit".

    I don't think your sexuality is even an issue in learning to develop friendships. Lumping it into the mix may be biting of too much.

    I will offer one other bit of advice here. I am an extreme skier. I jump into steep chutes on the sides of mountains to ski them. To do this, I must concentrate on the turn I am on. I cannot worry about the next turn or the rocks below. I cannot think about the previous turn where I almost biffed it. If I do, I will surely fall. If I keep going one turn at a time, I will get down the mountain.

    One step at a time.
     
  17. DAXIII

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    Sadly celibacy isn't a life I want to live

    ---------- Post added 4th Nov 2016 at 12:06 PM ----------

    Unfortunately I play strategy games and I always have to consider my next move all the time. Being five steps ahead and factoring in many different outcomes and having contingencies in place for such things.

    I have tried small talk like that before, but I'm extremely bad at it (not to mention I hate it, especially when it's something that doesn't interest me). The stumbling at what for most is basic just reinforces the notion that I don't know how to interact with people unless it's behind a screen. That and people just ignore me mid conversation or at the start, like all the time. That doesn't make it better.

    And Im sorry to say but no on can know about the aspergers. People will just end up seeing the different child, the same one who was mostly alone from middle and high school (I would count elementary but those play dates were mostly the parents doing). I can rightly say I quit from many many many failures. People just don't want to speak with me, or if they do it's more like a formality and a courtesy and not interest.
     
  18. Barbatus

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    "The stumbling at what for most is basic just reinforces the notion that I don't know how to interact with people unless it's behind a screen."

    Small talk or short conversations are not basic for everyone. Some people are naturally gregarious. I'm not and I was quite introverted as a child. Even now it takes a while before I consider people a friend. So small talk isn't natural for everyone. I had to learn how to do it. The reason small talk is important is because it establishes initial connections. It may seem pointless and boring in isolation but you have to look at it in the long term. The first time you speak about the weather, the next time you can say 'how are you doing', then they may tell you something about themselves or they may not but each time you see them you can just chat (in the sense of chit chat, small talk). Over time you will find that some people will talk more about themselves then you can reciprocate about yourself and so on - that's how you build up a friendship.

    You say you like to think strategically, well then think of friendship as a negotiation, finding out about each other and exchanging information. Obviously, viewing friendship in purely strategic terms is too narrow to encompass the entire experience of friendships (hence why rationality alone doesn't make people happy) because there is reliance, trust, comfort and support involved as well.

    As for feigning interest in what people like - no one expects everyone they meet to be interested in what they like but they expect their friends to care about how things affect them. I'm not interested in everything my friends like, just as they are not interested in everything I like but because we are friends we make an effort to see how each other is doing and that includes how their interests are going. People understand, unless they are narcissists,that you may not be interested in what they do but you would be better off thinking about it in terms of showing an interest in them which includes asking questions about their interests.

    Not everyone will respond, I've been in many one sided conversation where I ask people about themselves (nothing personal) and getting one word answers. Normally I chalk it up to them being shy but if they begin to respond at a later time I do as well.

    Friendships are slow dances that take time and they all start of with small talk. And small talk is no more natural than public speaking or any other social interaction.
     
  19. Nickw

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    DAX

    I sucked at social interactions one on one. I could give a speech to a hundred people and not order coffee. It was painful and embarrassing. So, I get what you are going through to some extent. That's why I went for the low loss low gain approach. I just talked to people where it just didn't matter if they responded. And, I always assumed they would not respond so when they did it exceeded expectations.

    I also was the kid who met the girl and instantly was naming our children...even before I could talk to her. So, when my usual social ineptitude kicked in and I didn't get the girl I felt great loss.

    You really need to back down to the one step at a time approach no matter how it doesn't fit your personality. I know this is hard...I really do.

    On the Aspergers. I really don't understand the condition well. But, I do know that people will respond once you get to know them. If you have problems reading how people react to you, you may have to just let them know that they need to tell you how they are feeling and not let you guess. This is a good idea anyway.
     
  20. DAXIII

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    Except the problem is that asking people to tell me how they feel requires a level of effort on vulnerability on their part that they don't want to do. It goes back to how neurotypicals have those cues that they understand wth each other and feel like if they have to explain it then for some reason that person isn't worth it.

    Also there is not responding and just outright ignoring you. It happens every time. People have no problem when others jump in the conversation or when they want to talk to someone other than me. But every time I speak I get ignored and people don't listen. Or they just ignore me right in the middle of my comment. Believe me they aren't shy, they just don't want to speak to me, no one does. If I wasn't a cashier I wouldn't have people speaking to me at all. Even in the comic shops people only do it as a last resort (as in there is no one else around).

    The nuances of interaction are lost on me and if it's a dance I have two left feet. You can't get into the rhythm when people don't even want the first steps with you.
     
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