Lesbians that have sex with men ?

100x this ^^^

 

I agree with that, which is why I have a bisexual? on my label since I started a sexual relationship with my BF. It doesn't seem honest to me to call myself totally a lesbian anymore.

That's what I think too, because he is an exception, not just because I desire him but the type of desire is different from what I've always felt as sexual desire with other people. It's physical but not so much sexual, if that makes any sense. It's almost like it's magnetic, and only with him. It's like his body parts (penis, flat chest, muscles) are unimportant to me.

As far as what I should identify as, I honestly don't know. All I know for sure is I'm far from straight. Any input I can get, like your post, might help me to figure it out, so I appreciate the opinions.

 

You cant call yourself a lesbian if u have sex with men

 

No questioning is entirely different from Bisexual

 

So I see a little why this thread was brought back from the dead. It's one of those topics that's hard to stay away from isn't it? A whole lot on the line for everyone.

I am one of those people that thinks that a woman who is kinsey 5 or 6 is a lesbian. In other words, no actual interest in doing anything sexual with a man, even if you are open minded or have in the past had experience with a man. I also think 2, 3, or 4 is bisexual, and 0 or 1 is straight.

But I don't argue online to just say my piece and figure out who to agree with. I'd really like to learn something.

So I'd like to ask, especially women who have some sexual interest in men, if there is anything wrong with the label "bisexual" or what it would take for you to say "I am bisexual". And why you choose to say "I am gay" instead.

From the responses I read here, it looks like the most common reason is that you don't want men to feel like they can get into relationships with you?

I can understand that a little. Since I'm not capable of being with a man sexually it would be completely unfair to a man to get in a relationship with him. When people respect my gender of course, I definitely get that benefit from the words "gay" or "lesbian". And when they don't, it's usually either a woman I wouldn't get along with anyway, or a guy that wouldn't respect a cis lesbian's sexuality. So why wouldn't you want the same thing, as far as that filter?

Of course, we don't live in a vacuum. Traditionally, men approach women for sex and relationships. This puts pressure on gay and straight women to tell men "no", and creates a lot of confusing situations. Some of those hurt, like gay women feeling like they're supposed to not like being with a man because they see straight women turning men down and putting up with bad situations.

I really feel like some of it too is the culture telling us we're somehow "less" if we like men. Just anyone, man or woman. It's why people use the word (sorry in advance) "cocksucker" as an insult.

I also feel like a lot of people don't want to be bisexual, because of the way bisexual people relate to the rest of the LGBT community. Like trans people, bisexual people do run into a lot of people - some have been honest with us right here in this thread - that let people know flat out that they won't date them. Which can be a good thing. There is nothing wrong with you deciding who would be a good fit for you, or being up front about that. I like getting "no" from people personally; it saves a lot of time and heartache and makes it easier for me to find a good fit.

But, I'm sure it isn't very hard to put yourself in the other person's shoes. How would you feel if you ran into someone that said they didn't date blondes or brunettes? You can do what I do, and decide that someone that shallow isn't worth dating. But some of us are a little slower to write other people off as shallow. I don't think it's always shallow to say that you can't be with someone that has been with a man before. If you truly can't, you can't.

But I really like to think that I am open minded enough to take people on a case by case basis and really give them a fair shot. Heck if we start to get close I'll ask myself if I'm falling for a guy, even if I think the answer is going to be no like it always is. It always has been and probably will be, but I really like to believe if it wasn't I'd be honest about that. I've been in one closet, I don't need to be in another.

Regardless, though, I think from the outside it's a fairly safe assumption that someone rejecting you because of your history, is probably not giving you a fair shot. At the very least, that is how a bisexual person is going to see you if you are telling them you being with a man makes you less desirable. And when many people do the same thing, that puts pressure on bisexual people to claim to be straight.

That is of course all guessing on my part. But is there anyone here that describes?

I really believe all of us as a community have a lot to think about on this issue. So while I do agree with the idea that you technically shouldn't seek and enjoy sex with men and call yourself a lesbian, I am not going to just side with other people that agree. Because if someone that likes men, is calling themselves a lesbian, I also like to believe they have a good reason for doing it, especially knowing how people like me, that believe differently, are likely to react.

So if you share your reasons, I really will listen to what they are.

 

I get a lot of backlash for identifying as a goldstar lesbian and liking and mostly dating lesbians that haven't been with men sexually. There are support groups and actual groups, just like the asexuals do and the bisexuals and bears etc..people compare me to "men who only date virgins." I also vet the " you must be a special little snowflake" comments, or the "how do you know they haven't ever slept with men?"

I don't like to make assumptions about people. I really hate it that people make assumptions about men without aactually getting to know me first. I have dated women who have identified as bisexuals some that are biromantic lesbians, and everything in between. It just so happens that lesbians that don't like penis or anything phallic just appeal to me more because they understand where I am coming from. I wouldn't lie about my sexuality, so anyone who does obviously has issues they need to deal with, not anything I need to resolve on my end. If they lie just to be with me, well shame on them for lying to themselves and to myself! I would say that because people read different to the term "gold star" they connotate it to how they relate to the label itself and take out their indignation with that label as an ad hominem attacks on me. It is frustrating but I stand firm and proud and I'm not going back into a closet either. There is no need for me to understand why lesbians need to sleep with men, likewise there is no need for someone who can't grasp the idea of "gold star lesbians" to react in such a rude manner. I can understand how it would seem like it is filtering some people out (like the blonde brunette example) but it is not the case. That would be like saying that straight chicks are then not giving me a fair shot because I have a vagina. Again, it comes down to how you identify and what makes you comfortable and I speak for myself, always. Not even for all Goldie's like me. Some will date only other goldiesz some like me might and have given lesbians that dated men a shot. We are so diverse it is incredible. I am just not siding with people who flat out judge me innacurately because of their own personal feelings about the term "gold star".

 

I think it's fine for a woman to enjoy sexual encounters with men occasionally and still identify themselves as a lesbian. I actually think it is possible for someone to be gay, rather than secretly bisexual, and do this. Straight people have sex with members of the opposite sex that they aren't attracted to all the time just to get off, and I think this is along the same lines as that.

In such cases, sex is just a physical thing. You don't need to be "sexually attracted" to someone for them to be able to get you off. Your body responds to the stimulation regardless. People masturbate and use toys, so why couldn't another human that you have no particular feelings for do these things for you too?

I can understand that some people would not feel comfortable with having sex with someone they had no attraction to, or even a deeper emotional connection with, and would only get those things in encounters with their preferred gender(s). I can see how it might be hard for those people to understand people who do not feel the same way about sex. However, for people who can and do have sex with people they are not attracted to, purely for the physical experience, I do not think this necessarily indicates anything about their actual sexual orientation.

 

Alehkz, I really regret part of how I came across. I am sorry. The last thing I want is for you to have to deal with a lot of what sounds like the same kinds of exhausting arguments you get from other people.

It is obviously really important deep down to you, that whoever you are with is just into women. And there really is nothing wrong with that at all.

Just, by the same token, there is also nothing wrong with not wanting to date you because you feel that way.

Two people should be compatible in order to date. We all have our deal breakers. And it is our choice who we do or don't date.

 

Sorry I may have misinterpreted please correct me if I have but im a little confused here are you implying identifying as a gold star lesbian is the same as identifying as asexual or were you just giving examples of support groups people belong too? Sorry again im a little tired so my brains a bit foggy if you could just clear that up for me id greatly appreciate it

 

Sexual attraction means desire to have sex with someone, so yeah, I think all of these people are in fact "sexually attracted" to the people they use to get off.

You don't have to be "physically attracted" to someone to be "sexually attracted" to them. The straight people who use people of the opposite sex to "get off" are just not "physically attracted" to the person, but they are by definition "sexually attracted". If they were not, there would be no desire to seek out sex in the first place. That is what sexual attraction means.

I'm not saying that sex can't be casual, of course it can. But casual "just getting myself off" sex still "counts" in regards to your sexual orientation.

It's called sexuality, not romantuality after all.

If I'm so horny and desperate to feel a physical feeling, I could have sex with my cat or a toddler too. But saying "I'm not a zoophile/pedophile! I don't really find animals/children good-looking! I don't really want a romantic relationship with a child/animal!" wouldn't fly with anyone. You would still be considered a zoophile/pedophile, and rightly so, because you showed a sexual desire toward someone.

Sure, you can molest a child while not being a "pedophile" if your reasons were not sexual attraction (IE: I wanted to hurt them/punish their family), just like you can have sex with a man while still being gay (IE: I wanted to fit in/be accepted).

But the minute you show sexual desire for someone for the reason "I'm horny, I wanted to feel a physical feeling". You are not gay. You showed sexual attraction. You may not be feeling physical attraction, or romantic attraction- but you are sexually attracted.

Sexuality = sex. Not emotions. SEX. Lesbians can fall in love with men and still be lesbians, but they can't desire sex with men and stay lesbians.

Because being a lesbian is not about who you love, It's about who you want to have sex with.

 

I'm sorry but I don't accept that at all? I don't think desiring sex with a particular person is the same as physically being able to have sex with some one/thing and have an orgasm from it. Sexual attraction is a specific drive to have sex with a specific person, not a general feeling of just wanting sex and a willingness to have sex with them as a means to an end. Pursuing someone for sex because they are available for it is different from pursuing them because you're sexually drawn to that person in particular.

If it were not possible to have get off from sex with a person whom you are not sexually attracted to, then explain how gay men in denial have been able to have sex with women and father children with them?? I don't think it matters why they did... it does prove that people can and do have experiences like these.

I'm not claiming that the experience would be as good as it would with someone you actually are attracted to. I highly doubt it is. But I do believe you can have sex with someone you aren't attracted to at all in any way and still have your body react to the stimulation and have the end result that you want.

I appreciate that it might be difficult for some people to separate sex as a physical thing and sex that comes about from sexual attraction. But I see no need to hate on those who can, or any reason to tell them who they are and aren't attracted to or what their identity is.

 

I would believe this if the "everything that moves" people would show an equal opportunity with people they sleep with. If you're going to sleep with a man because "you just want to get off" then why not sleep with an animal (which is legal in plenty of places) or an elderly person too? Most of the same people would draw the line at specific "types" so I have plenty of reason to believe that this is based off of hidden sexual attraction to a specific type and denying it because you don't feel an emotional connection to said person.

I believe gay men who sleep with their wives are a different case all together. They're doing it most of the time because they're in denial, they don't know they are gay, or they want to please their wives without feeling the desire themselves.

I do agree that being able to physically enjoy it is different than actually desiring it, but if you don't desire being with men, why do it in the first place? Why be so desperate that you would seek out what you don't like when It's pretty easy to find women to sleep with (Most 'straight' girls are willing to experiment)?

I don't like it at all because calling yourself a lesbian while actively seeking out men puts REAL lesbians in danger. What happens when a guy hits on me and I tell him "Sorry, I'm a lesbian"? He'll automatically think "Well at least I can just fuck her even if she doesn't want a relationship."

I'm not out to anybody I can't trust because the rape culture is so high for the lesbian community. "Lesbians" who seek out men because they're so desperate to get something are making it more likely for other lesbians to get raped/assaulted, so I'm not going to stand for it.

 

You know while you're right realistically, they really will take that kind of thing and run with it, at the same time I really feel like guys that would do that would do that no matter what message we give them. If someone views me as a "conquest" in spite if my flat out saying I'm not into men, they have some screwed up world view. What a guy thinks is not your responsibility. It's his.

I guess what I'm saying is, whether he has the "this other woman said she was gay and that worked out for me" excuse or not, I really feel like he's going to do the same thing either way. So I don't think "lesbians with exceptions" are really making things worse for anyone.

The problem is the way a lot of guys are taught to think to begin with. Rape culture is a real thing.

I have agreed with a lot of what you have said. I just feel like the real problem, is that people are afraid for whatever reason to use the label "bisexual". And I kind of want to find out why.

 

I'm pansexual and on at least one dating site, I've identified as lesbian to try to stop creepy men messaging me (yeah, that didn't work at all). My attraction, though, is like 90% to women and feminine-presenting/androgynous people, and only 10% to men and masculine-presenting/androgynous people. (And if we're talking cis guys, that percentage drops even further.)

I just sometimes hate ID-ing as pansexual or bisexual (I use both labels) because of the bi/pan-phobic assumptions that pansexual/bisexual people will hop into bed with anyone, or they have no standards, or they'll cheat on people, etc. My sex drive is so low, it's below sea level, and while I might be polyamorous as well, it's completely separate from my sexual/romantic orientation. So it gets really...frustrating. :c

My wife is a lesbian, but she's pan-romantic. She'd never have sex with a guy, but she might end up having romantic feelings for him.

 

---------- Post added 21st Apr 2014 at 11:40 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

It's not necessarily that someone is willing to sleep with "everything that moves" though, I never said that. Obviously there are moral and legal issues with sleeping with underage people or animals in the first place which makes the argument ridiculous anyway. I would think that the lesbians who do sleep with men probably choose their partners based on a variety of things like how much they trust the individual, the time/place they happen to be in and whether or not they judge them to be a good lay.

I don't know about you, but the average man doesn't repulse me, even though I am gay. I've never been attracted to one in any way, but they don't disgust me either. I do find some things about some of them off-putting though, like poor personal hygiene for example, and (no offence intended to anyone!) massive beards freak me out a little. Likewise, I have never been a huge fan of dogs either, but that has nothing to do with my sexual orientation/preferences. If I were the sort of lesbian who was going to sleep with men (I'm not, by the way, if that matters in all this), I probably wouldn't go for someone who gave me the creeps I would think.

Just because someone is looking for a little instant gratification doesn't mean they're suddenly some kind of sex-monster who will do anything to get it from any source. But I don't think there's anything wrong with sleeping with a consenting adult in a similar situation whom you feel entirely neutral towards, or like as a friend even.

I feel that the lesbians who do this are not in any way responsible for the actions of other people who sexually assault people or harass them. The perpetrators are responsible for their own actions, and the blame and attempts at change should be focused on them.

I also want to add that I do believe bisexual people exist too, I'm not questioning that at all. Perhaps some of the people calling themselves lesbians and also sleep with men really are bisexual and are reluctant to use that label for whatever reason. All I am saying is that I think it is genuinely possible for a lesbian to sleep with a man and like the experience and still be a lesbian. I think it's really unfair to criticize those people and attempt to force any sort of identity on them when they really haven't done anything wrong.

 

I know for me the bolded part applies to me, I have a very specific physical attraction to one guy, and one guy only. This attraction wasn't based on wanting to get off, because at the time I started a relationship with him I could've easily found a woman just to have sex with, and I can also get myself off. It is so easy for me to be sexually attracted to women, but for guys in general I feel nothing. I know that there are people who might not want to date me because I've been with a guy, but I'm not looking for a hookup right now anyway. If I was dating I'd be more concerned about how someone is now than their past, provided they are honest about it.

 

I apologize if I came off as rude or judgemental. I guess It's just something I don't understand. I'd sooner die than ever touch a man in any way.

 

I was giving examples of support groups people belong to.

 

...Hi. I feel like this whole conversation is dump and time wasting. How many of you actually even care about this past one second after you click out this thread?

A person can call themselves whatever they want because who gives a fuck? It's just a word for some people. If people can create new words for new sexualities and new gender types, then why couldn't a lady blow a guy and still say confidently "I'm a lesbian" if that's what she wants. What does it do to your life that someone isn't obeying the "sexual identity rules?" Nothing. "Ohhh nooo, she's not being gay the right way, what ever will I do?" Build a bridge and get the hell over it. What is this obsession with people telling each other what to do and how to identify or how strongly to feel about their sexual identity.

"Real" lesbians? Ha! Barf. What the hell is that? Just be a lesbian how you want to be one and someone else will be whoever however they want to be. It doesn't do shit to your life, you're just being judgmental and want to the person to be like you and feel like you do because it makes you feel more comfortable. Well tough shit, no one owes you that because they share one little aspect of themselves in common with you.

Jeez, life would be easier if there wasn't even a such thing as a sexual identity because human beings are just sexual creatures like any being out there. Biologically sexuality is a spectrum, so why break your back screaming and yelling, trying to name and pigeon hole people into every little inch of the spectrum. It's really not this serious. If people would focus more on representing themselves as a bleedin' individual instead of their "community" stupid little debates like this would probably happen less. I can't say they wouldn't happen at all because humans thrive off this animosity and indignation bull.

 

Yes, of course, a person can call themselves whatever they want. A pigeon, monarch of USA, a vowel. Nobody gives a fuck except their doctors and their mothers, because it's usually the insane and little children who stomp their feet on the ground and scream ''I can do whatever I want!'' That's exactly how you come across.