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Former lurker wants to say his piece

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by razorsharp, May 10, 2014.

  1. kumawool

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    So you're going to waste your life masturbating in gay chat rooms, and allow yourself to be miserable for the sake of proving a point to someone from your past?

    How is this "thinking logically"?

    It's clear that you have some unresolved internalized issues that need to be dealt with professionally, as with OP.
     
  2. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Well, normally I'd say it's better to regret something I've done rather than to regret something I haven't done, but to me the stakes seem to high for me. I'd rather live miserably knowing I never gave into what I feel to be a negative force in my life than live miserably knowing I did give into that misery-inducing force. I've been tormented by my sexuality for so long that I feel like it's an actual person, like one of those insulting clowns sitting on the platform at the boardwalk that yells insults at me, and no matter how much I try to hit the bullseye with the baseball the game is rigged and I'm wasting my time and energy on something that I can't win.

    When you say "dealt with professionally" I assume you're speaking psychotherapy-- I've expressed my thoughts on this, you simply need to read some of my earlier posts to know that I hate waiting rooms and the very act of stepping into a therapist's office causes me such distress that I'll often panic before the session can even begin.

    Psychotherapists are nothing more than modern day shamans, the same goes for that Richard Cohen fellow. He's a conman, like L. Ron Hubbard or Jim Jones or Charles Manson but deep down all psychotherapists are simply snake oil salesmen with ultimately worthless degrees hung in fancy frames who I pay to sit and nod in silence while enigmatically taking notes that I'm not sure say anything on unruled loose leaf paper.

    Psychological problems cannot be solved by "talking it out." They need chemical solution. Pills, prescribed by a real M.D., not by talking a self righteous philosophy major who went to some fancy school that no one will remember or care a thousand years from now.
     
    #82 Benway, Nov 22, 2014
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  3. kumawool

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    I understand your reservations.

    It just makes me intensely sad to see you suffering with yourself in this way, because it just doesn't have to be like this, is all.
     
  4. Benway

    Benway Guest

    I don't mean to be rude with this statement, but you don't understand. It is impossible for one human being to truly know, fully trust or let alone understand any other human being, regardless of how close they are-- whether it's lovers or conjoined twins, the mind of one is an impenetrable keep which cannot be comprehended by another. The skull is an unfathomably high wall into another's world which never be scaled.

    I do have to suffer. The pattern would continue to repeat itself, I've spoken of this before. It's the textbook definition of insanity-- repeating the same action in hopes of a different reaction, that's what I was doing in the chatrooms, hoping I'd break my cycle of self-hatred, but each time it ended the same way, self-disgust, self-imposed exile and guilt, paranoia and if I let myself continue, so would the insanity.
     
  5. biAnnika

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    Benway, I have to admit it: sometimes, I just want to hug you.
     
  6. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Why? Like, because you agree with me? Or because you feel sorry for me?
     
  7. biAnnika

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    Neither, really. But because I feel like I *understand* where you're coming from (at least in blips and flashes). It's compassion, not pity. And hugs are nice, for almost any reason.
     
  8. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Well, I appreciate that. We live in a day and age where we hide behind screens, endlessly typing or tapping away instead of calling or talking in person. Maybe I've grown disassociated with the world around me, depersonalized and detached from the world I thought I knew. But the world's changed so dramatically in the last ten years alone that it's virtually unrecognizable to what it was.

    I remember when text messaging was a new thing, I thought to myself: "God damn, that's stupid, why would anybody ever do that when they can just call a cellphone?" Then it caught on like wildfire and I didn't even start texting until 2010 when it became a social abnormality to call someone on their cellphone.

    Then there was MySpace and Facebook, to which I had the same initial reaction. But now because I don't use Facebook my friends don't call me because "I'm never on Facebook." I tell them I don't use Facebook because I believe it's part of a conspiracy created by twisted, egomaniacal madman who's mad he couldn't get laid in college so he's unleashing his wrath on humanity by enslaving them but nobody understands that, because they can't.

    There are days I want to grab the hammer in my toolbox and smash my modem, smash the monitor of my laptop, smash my smartphone-- in the words of my idol: "Smash the control images, smash the control machine." I think those words which are in a totally different context in The Soft Machine resonate today with a completely new meaning. We're not at war with each other-- we're at war with with technology and we don't even know it because it owns us. We are slaves, and while all this data is being put into the compendium for them to upload into an AI which will become the first self aware autocracy we sit idly by and let it happen. The last enemy of mankind is not our fellow man, but the computer.

    I shudder to think what the world will look like ten years from now, we may not even communicate using our hands, let alone our mouths, which we barely use anymore. I don't want to be enslaved to the technocratic autocracy, I am not a machine, nor should we as humanity be ruled by them the way we're allowing ourselves to be. Computers have their place, but it's not in the way they're positioned, now.

    This vicious new wave of technology has forged a new sexuality, and that is what I am. I'm patient zero of this new psychological condition. And I will not be a part of it, I will never give in to it, I will not surrender to the control machine.
     
  9. Wildside

    Wildside Guest

    RS, suicidal thoughts are serious. please give some serious thought about seeing a counselor to talk about it thanks. and then as far as the marriage thing, well, I did exactly what you are thinking about. it was a disastrous decision. I was about ten years younger when you when I decided that if I didn't get married by the time I was 24, people might start thinking I was gay. I don't know why I was so worried about that. But since I wasn't really attracted to women, one woman would do as well as another. I could convince my self that I was in love with anyone, and then do all the right actions. it works in the very short term, but it doesn't take long for reality to set in. not really a good thing to do to a woman; and much worse if she doesn't know. In my case, I was in such deep denial that it might be fair to say that neither one of us knew. ugh! please, take care of that suicidal ideation!
     
  10. razorsharp

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    Well the chat rooms are part of the problem. I've made some progress avoiding them in the last few months so I'd like to be in a position where I don't need to use them.

    Getting married may help with this. Although Wildfire doesn't seem to think it's a good idea. Wouldn't it be good if homosexuality didn't exist? It would be one less thing to worry about.
     
  11. aboutface

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    It sounds like you're viewing a potential marriage to a woman as some sort of solution. I just think it's one that's really really unlikely to work as you might hope it to work.

    It won't make your same sex attraction go away. It won't change who you are, so if you can't or won't accept yourself then that won't just change.

    It the same vein, as long as you are still fundamentally unhappy and dissatisfied with yourself, your chances of being able to make this hypothetical woman happy and satisfied are going to be almost nonexistent.

    I read the whole thread and I feel like people were trying to give you the only type of good advice that I know of, and you were not even willing to consider any of it. I really wish you would, but obviously it is your decision and your life to life.
     
  12. biAnnika

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    I want to second the emotion that getting married to an opposite-sex partner is a bad idea if you are gay. I strongly doubt it will help, and I strongly suspect that the only outcome you can expect is that you'll have dragged another person into your situation, and you'll ultimately have to account for that. It's like doubling down on a hopeless bet on the roulette wheel...a desperate move that's more dangerous than sticking with your status quo.

    But your second sentence (the one I bolded above) is the one I want to point out as *really* dangerous. It sounds like it might be better *for you* if homosexuality didn't exist. I mean, let's face it, given your attitude toward it, it's not "just one more thing to worry about"...it's a fundamental fact about yourself that you despise and which there is no feasible way to change.

    BUT, you need to acknowledge and remember two important things:
    (a) There are plenty of homosexuals who are perfectly happy being gay; plenty of us bisexuals with same-sex partners, too, who do *not* share your feeling that it's just "wrong"; and
    (b) Suddenly removing (violently or non-violently, magically or through some kind of realistic method) all homosexuals (including yourself) from the planet will not remove homosexuality...it will remain as part of the human condition because (as opposed to how it feels to you), it occurs naturally in virtually every species of animal, including humans...all it'll take is one more set of kids to grow up, one more generation. AND YET, although I suspect you weren't talking about killing off all homosexuals, this is exactly what comes to bigoted peoples' minds when they hear the words "if homosexuality didn't exist".

    Words are powerful and they help to shape our reality. Please don't use them that way. Feel free to say "I wish I wasn't gay." But in case a djinni (or some bigoted asshole...and I'm in no way equating the two) is listening when you make your wish, for the sake of manymany people, do NOT wish homosexuality didn't exist.
     
  13. skiff

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    Why god allows the suffering, gays included... i have thought about it.

    Some may say that free will without rules is chaos...

    What two blessings does god bestow? Free will and love.

    Love is as large a canvas as free will. If you love it encompasses respect. There is no chaos when free will and respect reside together.

    That is my answer. We have all we need we simply fail to love and share what love encompasses.

    Free will is tempered by true love of all things.

    Free will and love are blessings, rules are mankind's curse.

    If you are gay and love you do not marry straight out of respect that springs from that love.


    It took the mistake for me to learn it.
     
  14. razorsharp

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    sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just thinking 'out loud'. I'm not sure about your first point..are you speaking from experience? In any case, even if I do have SSA, I'm sure there is a part of me that is slightly attracted to women. If I'm determined, I may be able to make it work I'm hoping.

    I don't believe that I'm using marriage as a solution to my problem (although maybe I am partly). It's just that I want to go down the marriage to a woman route but I'm hoping that I don't end up hurting someone in the process.
     
  15. skiff

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    Ahhhh...

    It is an experiment. You are marrying a lab rat?

    I am gay, hoped for sexual fluidity, married a woman, worked at it 21 years, it failed.

    You gt 21 years or more to invest in experimenting?
     
  16. Wildside

    Wildside Guest

    being married to an opposite partner and gay has been very painful for me. not understanding it when I got married at the age of 23 resulted in a long time figuring it out, and the discovering that I was in a closet with no doors. In your case, you already know or pretty strongly suspect your orientation. If you were to marry, though I don't give it good odds of success, you really would have to be completely open with the person, not only going into it, telling her that you're gay and are using her to try to change yourself; but you would also have to be prepared to be honest with her down the road, when you discover, as I'm sure you will, that "those feelings" have not only come back, but have come back stronger than ever. And if you act on them, you would have to be honest about that too. But from what you have said, I suspect that you would just be so ashamed that you would hate yourself much more than you do now.
    Please understand that I am just sharing from my own experience, and in many ways I have been where you are. And that's why I'm following your thread, because what people are telling you is helping me. that's the thing about a forum like this, people who post never know who they might help. even if the OP isn't receptive, someone else might be. or OP might be, somewhere down the road, once those seeds have been planted. I prayed a lot to be "fixed" of being gay, even while denying that I was gay, or at least not fully accepting it. Then, accepting it, I thought that a chaste life would be the solution, even after a celibate priest insisted to me that in my case that wasn't going to work (he was right). Today I rejoice in the gift of life that God has given me, including the gift of my sexuality, my gay sexuality. And while it may look like I've walked a distance from where you are today (a road you don't want to travel, and that I didn't want to travel when I was at that stage), I am still so far away from the many people here who are out. But it is a journey of a day at a time, sometimes just a moment at a time. Keep chatting about it. As long as you keep talking about it, you're giving yourself more time. Don't be ashamed of trying to find answers here. It gets you out of your head for a little bit of time, and that might keep your wonderful life with us for another day. Your life isn't just a gift to you, it is a gift to us all. It might not seem like that today, but when you allow yourself to become who you really are, it will be different. Marrying a woman and staying married just hurt another person in ways that neither she nor I fully understand. And it will bring with it a depression much greater than what you are in now, at least that was my experience. And if I ever do come out to her, I fear the rage and vindictiveness that I will have to face. Is this really what you want to do with your life? with another person's life?
    and to everyone who has been posting on this thread, I thank you for words that help me see that the self-hatred that I have carried throughout my life just wasn't right. And thank you for giving me hope for another day. and thank you for reaching out to razorsharp. because loving others is the message that rests in my heart.
     
    #96 Wildside, Nov 23, 2014
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  17. Benway

    Benway Guest

    Whoa, easy there, fella. While I may not like my orientation and not act upon it, I don't condemn others or wish they or their orientation didn't exist. And as far as the chatrooms go, the way I see it, sometimes they're the only thing standing between me and an SSA encounter. Without them I may have acted on my impulses long ago.

    And no, I don't want to get married. I'm not into romance, I don't commit to vows. I'm a bit of a hermit and I have no room in my life for another person, let alone a wife. So I suggest you retract your statement about homosexuality not existing because that's never been what I'm driving at. All I said is it's not for me.
     
  18. Wildside

    Wildside Guest

    I thought I heard a national leader say,"if you like your orientation, you can keep your orientation." (I hope that weak attempt at humor is OK). but the fact is, I like my orientation, and I want to keep it. what I don't like is how I've dealt with it in the past. I don't like how I'm dealing with it today either, but it's better than it was. I am happy and grateful for being a gay man, and would be very unhappy if "homosexuality just went away in the world." I don't think that it would be better. In fact, if I woke up straight tomorrow, I would be kind of pissed. After a lifetime of coming to understand that this is a gift not a curse, I would not like it taken away from me.
     
  19. biAnnika

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    You didn't offend; you scared. That was dangerous talk there...such talk inspires violence and persecution.

    But on my first point, I'm not talking from personal experience, but from the experience of hundreds of people here. Read these forums...see how many people "married straight", either because they thought they were, hoped they were, wanted to be, thought they could make the gay go away, thought that love (with a same-sex partner) could fix them...and see what happened to all of those unions.

    I would wager money that if you do this, you'll end up hurting someone in the process.

    And anyone who knows me knows that I *only* wager money when I'm quite sure I'll win.
     
  20. razorsharp

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    Hi all. Just to clarify my earlier statement. What I meant by it was that if homosexuality didn't exist in the first place, it would have saved all of us on this forum (myself included) a lot of anxiety and heartache. I certainly didn't mean that I wished all homosexuals were dead. On the contrary, I admire the bravery of the people on this forum. I probably resonate more with you guys than you realise, because I'm also going through the same struggle, albeit in a different way.

    My struggle is perhaps a little bit harder because I've never accepted homosexuality (for myself I mean) and never will. I know some of you guys find this hard to understand, which is why i believe i belong to a 'forgotten group'. Even if we are forgotten, we are still here and still struggling pretty intensely. We need help/advice too from time to time, wherever it may come from. I hope this clarifies my position a little bit and I sincerely apologise for scaring, offending or upsetting anyone.

    Wildside, that was some wonderful stuff you posted there, although I disagree with you for obvious reasons. That doesn't make your thoughts any less inspirational.

    I will take all your advice on board as I carry on with this dilemma of mine. I still believe (although many will disagree) that there is someway that I can make this work in the way that I believe is right. I'm not sure when or how, but I believe there is an answer for people like me. :icon_wink