1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Former lurker wants to say his piece

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by razorsharp, May 10, 2014.

  1. allnewtome

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    In one form or another most have had struggles similar to what you are. I don't know of many people who realized they were gay and their first that was 'this is awesome'. For a time for most they would've said at one point or another if they could've chosen they would've chosen to be straight.

    People will focus on your religion being a root for these feeling but as someone who wasn't raised in a religion I can tell you it's as much society in general as anything.

    I grew up in a liberal family, they were accepting of others and when serious conversation was happening they always supported equality. However, jokes were always the norm, whether racist, homophobic or whatever there was continual sense of humour through out my family where those that were a minority were a punch line. The intent wasn't evil or harmful but damage was done.

    I didn't want to be gay, and in the face of all the evidence in the world I thought that I wasn't. Why would I want to be a punch line? So I got married- the gay porn/gay chat/fantasies became a regular part of my life. When that marriage ended I dated women again and figured eventually I'd get remarried and life would go on. But the 'gay' stuff was always there. I had to stop ignoring it.

    I struggled in a ridiculous cycle of questioning, self loathing and all of that for a very long time. As a result of it I built a wall around myself and woke up realizing how lonely an existence I'd made for myself. My happiness needs to count for something-I just need to find a way to be happy.

    So I decided to put the struggles aside-acknowledge the situation for what it is, and acknowledge that my sexuality doesn't need to be the all encompassing aspect of my life that I'd built it to be. Because it's not, it doesn't define who I or anyone else is it's merely a piece of the puzzle.

    I've come out to a few friends and have dated a bit recently but I haven't come out to family and I don't know that I ever will. The funny thing is since I started to accept myself, family and friends who have no idea about sexuality have mentioned how much more content I've been lately.

    There are days I wish I wasn't gay, there are days where I wish I'd accepted my sexuality years earlier and there are days where I wonder if I could marry a woman again and have a happy life. The answers always hit me: I am who I am, I can't go back in time and I have zero doubt that if I were to marry a woman one day I'd be overcome by the gay porn/chat and fantasies again and to try to live that life wouldn't be fair to myself or her.

    You coming here is an awesome step. It's a step to one day no matter what reclaiming some sort of happiness. The situation sucks (not that you're gay necessarily) that it's such a struggle....that life in general can't just be easier. We aren't entitled to an easy life or to good luck in life and some times we need to just figure out how to be happy in situations that are unexpected or less than ideal.

    You won't ever be able to change your sexuality-you just won't. But learning to accept it doesn't mean you have to come flying out of a closet wearing ass less chaps and a mesh t-shirt either. Nothing needs to happen over night-take one step at a time and the first step should be talking with a therapist. I wish you the best of luck and even if it's not finding acceptance hopefully you'll find some inner peace.
     
  2. GreenMan

    GreenMan Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Alright, so don't. No one has a gun to your head forcing you to have gay sex, do they? I think the point most people are trying to make to you is that you'll relieve yourself of a lot of stress if you can come to accept yourself, that you are oriented towards men. How you live your life with that knowledge is up to you, but you can potentially find peace, if you can accept that fact. And it won't be easy, it's very difficult for many of us to let go of the desire to live a straight life, and you're obviously struggling with it, otherwise you wouldn't be here. I think that's the reason the majority of us found this place, so stick around, post and read, and work on accepting yourself. :slight_smile:
     
  3. Sig

    Sig
    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oz, as in Wizard of
    Gender:
    Female
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Hi razorsharp,
    I think I know where you're coming from, and I'm so sorry you feel the way you do.

    Have you perhaps thought of reading a couple of non-fiction books about people growing up gay? I've recently read several (one in particular gives great insight into the reasons you may feel the way you do, written by a gay psychologist).

    I'm brand new here so don't know if its appropriate to give the titles or authors of the books here, but if you'd like them I'd be happy to message you (if that's permitted).

    i do hope you can reconcile yourself to who you are, and don't give up.
    I think you'll have friends here, so keep posting.

    :slight_smile:
     
  4. KyleD

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Spain
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Family only
    It's so painful to see you suffer like this. It's like we're witnessing someone drinking arsenic every day. Don't you see that the type of stuff you've been taking in is poisonous to your health? You need to liberate yourself.
     
  5. Yossarian

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone

    What is "normal"? Some people have black hair. Some people have brown hair. A very few people, less than 2% worldwide, have red hair. Are they "abnormal". Should they be miserable because they are not in the majority of people who have black hair? Do people routinely discriminate against redheads, and say they shouldn't be allowed to get married to each other? There are more people who are homosexual, at least 5%, probably closer to 10%, but at least around 5%. So, aren't homosexuals less "abnormal" than redheads, who are surely in less abundance, but don't get discriminated against by law simply because they were born with red hair?

    Here's the deal, there are a lot of different kinds of people around the world. They differ in size, skin color, sexual orientation, language, athletic endurance, intelligence, average lifespan, hair color, eye color, and a thousand other ways. But that does not make ANY of them "abnormal".

    What makes people FEEL abnormal, is when they are discriminated against by OTHER people, for some immutable property they were born with, such as skin color, dwarfism, clumsiness, sexuality, speech difficulties, etc etc. When they are treated with respect and general indifference to how they are not exactly like the majority of other people, then they usually function well, learn to adapt to any limitations imposed by their differences, and have a relatively "happy" life, which means being satisfied and comfortable with who they are and how they are living.

    You may wish you were born intensely interested only in women, or basketball-star tall, or with washboard abs and a Paul Newman blue-eye smile, but the reality is that you are what you are, and need to accept that fact, and figure out what lifestyle will work out best for you and an appropriate life-partner who is compatible with you, and happy to share their life with you. That life may or may not include birth children, or adopted children, or surrogate-born children, or no children; that will be up to you and your partner to decide. But here is the important part: you don't get to decide about your sexuality; you get to discover it and choose how you want to live your life considering it, but you don't get to change it like you can change your hair color temporarily with hair dye. And even if you were as flamboyantly queer as Richard Simmons, there is nothing ABNORMAL about it; it is simply one of a million unique variations about what humans are.
     
  6. razorsharp

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    You are going beyond the scope of this thread. I was not intending this thread to be a debate about the morality of homosexuality. I have already made this clear. I was simply asking for some help and advice from other people who have gone through what I'm going through.

    Some people are convinced that they have changed their sexuality, so you cannot say for certain that it 'cannot be changed'. It does seem that it is very difficult to accomplish, but people swear that they have achieved it. And if they have, then it is their right.

    Remember, sexuality can be quite fluid for some people, and it changes throughout life on it's own accord.
     
  7. BookDragon

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    4,605
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    on it's own accord. being the operative part of that sentence.

    Yes it can change, but you can't change IT.

    The thing is, if you want help changing your sexuality, you won't get it here, because we recognize that it isn't healthy, and certainly isn't helpful.

    You ask for help and advice but you won't consider the only form we can provide you. Nobody is going to force you to act on it, but all we can do is try and help you to accept it. If you're looking to change it, I find it difficult to believe you will get that here.
     
  8. razorsharp

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Yes I know. See my earlier post. I already acknowledged the suggestions that everyone here has given me. I was just making a point to the poster who claimed that sexuality cannot be changed.
     
  9. Aldrick

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Virginia
    Well, there is some debate about that, but this thread isn't the place to have it... And it's certainly nothing along the lines of: "I was gay, and then my sexual orientation magically became straight!"

    Suffice it to say there is a difference between evolving preference, and full out shifts in sexual orientation.

    Yes, people like:

    Michael Bussee
    John Paulk
    John Smid

    Go ahead and read their stories, and know that if it didn't work for them - it won't work for you. It's not a matter of not listening to your point of view, or not understanding what you're going through. On the contrary, I understand exactly what you're feeling, because I've walked a mile in your shoes. It's precisely for that reason - because I've been where you're at - that I'm telling you that you're traveling down a dead end road. You're wasting more of your life, more of your time, and perhaps a lot of money... and in the end you gain nothing except more psychological and emotional damage.

    Here is part of a statement from the American Medical Association: "Services that purport to "cure" people with non-heterosexual sexual orientation lack medical justification and represent a serious threat to the health and well-being of affected people... "

    You can struggle all you like, but there have been others who've traveled down the road you're on. The science doesn't support it, and in fact says it is harmful. It would be neglectful of anyone to lead you to believe otherwise.
     
  10. razorsharp

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    What about Richard Cohen? I don't think I can be anymore psychologically damaged at this point can I? Trying would be better than the status quo at least.

    In any case, there aren't many therapists who practice this therapy in the UK, so I won't even be able to try it any time soon.
     
  11. identifii

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Just wanted to let you know that there is a way to live true to your faith and your feelings by keeping perspective. Please visit ldsvoicesofhope.org and watch the videos there. It is a great resource. Also, consider attending Journey into Manhood. It is possible to live in accordance with your faith! There's no need to keep your SSA a secret though... that's what will make things (nearly) unbearable, you should consider "coming out" to someone you trust, be honest with yourself about your SSA, and know who you are and what you believe.
     
  12. piano71

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    That is because reputable professional organizations of psychologists have concluded, after conducting much scientific research, that conversion therapy does not work, and may in fact do more harm than good.

    The only ones left practicing conversion therapy are counselors affiliated with conservative church organizations. Their schooling was all in religious institutions, which are biased against any teachings or findings that are pro-gay.

    And yes, conversion therapy could make you more "psychologically damaged" than you are currently. Guys who go through conversion therapy eventually reach the point of suicide attempts, addiction issues, or their eyes are opened when they realize that they've been taught to inflict cruelty on their fellow gay man.
     
  13. Aldrick

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,175
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Virginia
    He hasn't come out and revealed that he's still gay yet, but he's clearly a fraud. Here is the therapy he offers:

    [YOUTUBE]jJXWFZz0Qjo[/YOUTUBE]

    So, yeah. I guess if you want "special cuddle time" with Richard, and to beat effigies of your mother he might be someone to seek out. However, doing any of that isn't going to make you any less gay.

    You'd be shocked. You're already contemplating suicide. What will you do when the treatments fail? Ask yourself that question.
     
  14. Yossarian

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Florida
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I don't recall saying anything about the morality of homosexuality, or hair color, or skin color or anything else which just "is" a physical trait, so I am not sure what you are referring to in this regard.

    It does not change at their direction or by their choice, and it is probably their awareness of what their sexuality is or their willingness to admit and accept it, rather than their actual sexuality, which is changing, if anything is changing at all.

    You don't seem to be convinced by what most people here are telling you about their experiences or willing to follow their suggestions which might help you. I am not sure there is anything else we could say to help, but I wish you the best as you travel down what I fear will be a dead end road for you.
     
  15. biAnnika

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Before you start spending money on trying to fix what you think is broken, I strongly suggest you watch Peterson Toscano's account of his experience with an ex-gay community. It's hilarious, poignant, and definitely thought-provoking.

    I think it'd be worth your while.

    Good luck in general.
     
  16. allnewtome

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    By all accounts any therapy to change orientation doesn't work. It may bandage the issue but eventually it seems to come to light. And then you end up in the same spot just years down the road and more time lost. The things that consumed my thoughts at 17 still consumed my thoughts at 35 and I finally awakened to the fact that while I could do nothing to relive those past 18 years I'll do everything in my power to not spend the next 18 in the same manner. The quickest path to inner peace seems to be self acceptance.
     
  17. biAnnika

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Northeastern US
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Very well put.

    The problem, of course, is that our friend doesn't appear to want to believe this, and doesn't want self-acceptance. So I fear that regrets, at best, are in his future. Let's hope not.
     
  18. razorsharp

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2014
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Sexual Orientation:
    Questioning
    Hi all,

    I posted a long time ago. Nothing much has really changed. I'm still suicidal (but that's normal for me). I just have a couple of questions for people of have 'been there':

    1. I'm over 30 and single. I think my SSA has something to do with this but it's not the only reason. The question is, people keep asking me why I'm not married yet and I'm getting worried that they're suspecting that I'm gay (I could be wrong about this). I feel like I'm forced to explain myself everytime and it's getting awkward..I just tell them the usual (all true) reasons such as parents poor health, can't afford it, not met right person etc..but something tells me they're not satisfied with my responses. I feel quite depressed after every conversation like this (someone will ask me at least once a week). Any advice?

    2. If I do meet a suitable woman for marriage, would it be fair to get married to her despite my SSA? If this were to happen, I don't intend on telling a future spouse about my SSA. I would try really hard to make it work as I don't ever intend to have any sort of relationship with someone of the same sex. What do you guys think?
     
  19. kumawool

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    SSA = Same Sex Attraction I'm assuming.

    1) You don't need to explain anything to anyone. Getting married, having a child, etc., those are things that are your own life decisions. You don't even need to explain that to people, or be worried about what they think, because they're not the one dating you.

    2) Yes, it would be 'fair', as long as you truly loved her. What wouldn't be entirely fair is not trusting them with who you are, since that will harm your relationship in subtle ways over the long term - since it's signifying you don't truly trust her. Remember: If you're marrying someone, and they don't like you for who you are, why are you marrying someone that doesn't actually like you?

    Food for thought...

    ---------- Post added 22nd Nov 2014 at 05:49 PM ----------

    Reading through the last few pages of this thread, I notice a few things.

    You definitely experience same sex attraction. You're going to for the rest of your life. You know this is the case, it's been this way for many years, and it's going to remain so.

    The point blank truth is that your concerns about ex-gay therapy are valid, if you have any. Exodus, the largest ex-gay therapy organization in the USA, recently experienced its head coming forward, and admitting it was a fraud. He himself had never stopped being gay. Recently, we've seen the head of an ex-gay organization marry his same sex partner.

    Exodus International Shuts Down: Christian Ministry Apologizes To LGBT Community And Halts Operations

    They don't work.

    Success stories?

    Not everyone is gay, or straight. There are plenty of people inbetween. These people are seized upon as success stories by these organizations, so they can market their product.

    Beware of the snake oil health practitioner.

    -----

    I do recommend actual counselling and therapy. You're having a lot of difficulty opening yourself to different areas of thinking, and as you've already indicated you are aware: this is strengthening your depression, and suicidal thoughts. It definitely seems that your challenges go beyond the scope that we can help you with, though it is possible to teach yourself coping strategies, and resources such as these forums can only help you.
     
    #79 kumawool, Nov 22, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
  20. Benway

    Benway Guest

    It's eerie how similar the OP's situation is to mine, though in my case certain variables are inverted.

    I'm from a very liberal area and a "blue state," there's a gay bar right near my house, my parents aren't prejudiced at all against homosexuality nor are my friends, who all know I struggle with SSA, or "being gay" as they call it. I do not hold any strong religious beliefs, nor do I subscribe to any organized religion. My family is not overly religious, my mom is a lapsed Catholic who doesn't attend church except for Christmas Eve anymore and my Dad is part of a more progressive Protestant church, one of those that welcomes everyone, etc-etc.

    And yet I hate myself for struggling with the chatroom thing. Sometimes I sit and think about how I could go so much further than my screen, how much fun it could be if I just submitted, and yet I don't, because I hate myself for it because I feel like I'm allowing someone from my past to win an idiotic debate, or allowing myself to stoop to that person's level, or whatever it may be.

    My only advice is to just stick to the chatrooms, get your rocks off in there, don't make any plans with anybody and once you've come just let the dopamine from the orgasm clear from your head until you're thinking logically again.