Multiple gay children?

Oh my goodness, I thought I was the only one who thought that this was a possibility! I've heard a few older people say that there weren't as many gay people in their day. I always just assumed that there have always been the same amount of gay people, but today there are just more gays that are comfortable enough with their sexuality to accept it and be out. But what if there actually is a higher percentage of gay people today?? What if it really is nature's reaction to overpopulation?

As for all of the biological and scientific stuff, I'm definitely not the person who should be discussing that (I'll only make myself sound stupid :lol. But I don't think that theory would apply to me. Although I am the youngest of four (two brothers and a sister), they are all my half-siblings. I have a different mother from all of them.

 

I dunno, I'm not sure if I agree. I don't know much about biology, so I think the part that's making me doubt it is the fact that our body would be able to to naturally detect when we're overpopulated and change the genetics of new children to accommodate. I also think that if it is a means of population control, but homosexuals have been in existence for nearly forever, well, the population control isn't working that well, is it? Plus theoretically homosexuals could still reproduce, they just don't want to.

I've gotta say, I think that idea is probably predominantly because of what you said, that more people are simply "out" now. Obviously I can't prove it, but I think that's the most obvious explanation. :/

 

I have to agree with BudderMC, although if it were true it might shut up a few nutcases about gay people

 

Hmmm, yes, but in my eyes population control (in the natual sense) doesn't mean a plateau of population where there is zero or negative growth... I just think it might have been an evolutionary check to keep populations from exploding like they have recently due to the advent of medical technology. Even the human birth cycle is a form of natural population control. The fact that the female has a finite amount of eggs, she can only conceive at certain times during her cycle, and that the gestation of a human fetus is relatively long are all natural population controls through natural selection and random chance. So it is entirely possibly that the more children a woman carries successfuly, the chance of being born gay raises, and therefore that is another natural way to control population through making gay babies The thing that is different now is that medical advances and technology are making sure more and more babies are carried to term than in the past. Infant mortality rate is lower than it has ever been in human history. In this sense, man has conquered nature and the spoil of our conquest is an exploding population. So, now that we have an artificially large population due to advances that even nature couldn’t have predicated, our gene pool will grow more and more diverse though different combinations of people from previously isolated locations globally and who knows what will happen. But, also, since more and more women are having multiple children safely then wouldn't it make sense that there are more gay people today if birth order does in fact play a role? This all became relevant in only the past 100 years or so.

Although, I do think that being gay is random chance... but I would like to see research in many different areas explaining exactly what makes me me. I find it comforting, actually. I just want to know if homosexuality has a real role in the natural world or if I'm a fluke, which either scenerio wouldn't make me any less proud... I would just like to know.

 

It might be a combination of both.
I agree strongly that being gay is biological. The idea that I was raised a certain way to get "excited" when seeing attractive males in absolute bullshit.
Because I believe it's genetic, that would influence the fact that it most likely has a role in the natural world. I read about how back in the cavemen days, the gay male cavemen were awesome to have around because they would help take care of the cave-children without feeling the need to chase any women, or procreate with them and cause more work handling the kids.
But as for you being gay within your family, that might be a fluke. If you had an older brother, maybe he'd be the gay one, you know?

And for the general conversation, I personally haven't met any families like that. I'm also hesitant to listen to the fraternal brother effect (or whatever it's called) just because my grandpa had 8 siblings, 7 older and 1 younger - 5 boys, 3 girls, and nobody was gay in that family. I read that the chances of each consecutive brother being gay was raised by 33% - which would mean that my grandpa had a 132% of being gay, which he isn't. I have two older brothers (66% chance of being gay) and I am gay. Doesn't make sense, does it?

King x

 

I am the second born in my family with an older sister. I'm questioning my sexuality right now. Its pretty interesting to see that they're trying to figure out what factors, if any, influence a person to be homosexual. I thank the psychedelic movement for opening up peoples minds to the true nature of humanity. Thats just my opinion but I know that it was a mind expanding point in time and maybe it helped a lot of gay people to see who they are and the psychedelic movement mIght have helped others see that there is nothing wrong woth gay people. The reason i think this way is because of the massive ammount of People who were coming out after thus period in time.

I know that was pretty off topic, and i don't knOw if glorifying drugs is against the rules, but thats why I think there are more people coming out these days. Thank you hippies

 

If there's only a 3% chance of being gay in the general population then with 5 older brothers, a boy would have a 0.03 *1.33^5 chance, or a 12.5% chance. That still means the majority of people with that many older brothers are going to be straight. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what "33%" means?

I'm skeptical about the birth order thing anyway, and any biological explanations that have been proposed so far.

 

My brother and I are both gay, but I have some distant gay cousins and a gay uncle as well. I've never met any other families like mine before, with multiple gay siblings, and I know plenty of gays. I don't know how common it really is, but I've always lived under the impression that it wasn't very. But, I know that twins (fraternal and identical) share the same sexuality more often than non-twin siblings, so that has to mean something, right?

 

I'd say there is definitely a biological factor. I am the fourth of six kids, and I'm gay. Then I have my oldest brother who is also gay, and then another brother who is gay but definitely went back into the closet after having one foot out. My sister who is the youngest may possibly be a lesbian/bisexual but is trying to bury herself in religion to try fighting it (I could be wrong of course).

I DEFINITELY agree with you on how it is harder to come out once you already have a sibling that is out. My parents and my extended family are all very religious and conservative. They all still love my gay brother, but they definitely don't condone his being gay. For me the hardest part of having to eventually come out is my mom. She highly suspects that I'm gay, and has even said something to the effect of, "I'll die if I have another gay son". Obviously that isn't conducive to my situation >.<

 

I am the youngest of 5 kids, the only gay one though.

 

I'm commenting on this only because we actually just covered this stuff (and study) in my class today. The thing is, the chances of you being gay are raised 33% for each successive male child, off of the original very small chance of being gay (due to whatever other reasons cause homosexuality). So, your grandpa was exceptionally more likely to be gay than you, but neither of you were particularly likely to begin with. I think the data shown said that the gay males with 5+ older brothers only accounts for 8% of the already small gay population. So, it's not that much.

Also, female siblings don't factor into this fraternal birth order effect, for anyone who mentioned their sisters.

 

Well, there's quite a few theories on it, and I won't go through all of them in detail, but an overarching theme on a few of them we covered in class today was that there isn't one singular "gay gene". It's more likely the case that it's a combination of genes, that typically aid in reproductive success, but may combine in such a way to produce homosexuality on occasion. We compared it similarly (in a way) to the sickle cell anemia case: having it passed down from 1 parent gave you immunity to malaria (which is very good, and very common), having it passed down from both parents gave you sickle cells (apparently very painful and much less common).

And then there's the couple theories I listed earlier in the thread.

Also, for your mother, there's no conclusive evidence that shows homosexuality is a nurtured condition. It's heavily theorized to be genetic, to the point of being determined prenatally.

 

I've never thought there could be anything downside with having gay siblings until you mentioned that people might think your parents are raising you in a wrong way. Sure people are gonna' get that dumb idea but you know the truth. You were born that way. People are gonna' look at it in a bad way from all sides. "You're parents have gay genes." - "They raised you wrong" ect. You need to reassure your parents that they didn't affect your orientation.

 

I have a gay older brother. Sibling rivalry meant that I wanted to be the first to come out (I was) and the one to land up with a more attractive boyfriend (I did)

But yeah, you're doing the right thing by not bothering with your siblings' sexualities. That's their battle, and if they want to talk about it, they will. But there's nothing wrong with coming out whenever you want for whatever reasons you want. It's your thing to do what you want with.

 

Hm, I'm not very sure about it being genetic, It would make more sense to me if it were though.

When I was very very young, I remember Thinking about females and getting excited. The thought of being with a guy when I was little never occurred to me, Though who's to say that if I had thought it, I would have noticed.

I honestly think that Maybe if it were genetic it was dormant for until puberty. Because I did not notice that I liked "man on man" until I was in about 7th grade and stumbled upon it on the internet. And I remember after that Thinking about girls became more and more difficult. And over time, as the boys my age started to notice girls features, I did too a little, but eventually in high school about freshman/sophomore year, It seemed like the "gayness" creeped in and overtook most of my sexual thoughts. I thought nothing of it and had girlfriends, though I could have cared less if I kissed them or touched them or was around them, And making out was cool at first, then annoying. Still I did not notice I may be gay until I fell in love, HARD. With a male and that's when I realized something was up. And after Junior year ended (this year), In June. I had fallen out of love and I finally confessed to myself after years of having Homosexual thoughts, desires, and feelings accompanied with crushed on girls but dwindling sexual attraction to them, I "had caught" the gay

I consider myself gay, But who's to say in years I will be "straight" again? Who knows. I think my story is atypical of most in that alot of gay people knew form a young age. I did not.

So If it was dormant gene, that explains. If conditions and environment affect it, Okay.

I know for sure I was always different, If that makes a difference.

So if it is genetic, Do you think that it can be stronger in some than others? Causing Bisexuality? Or that It can lay dormant until puberty says "woah bud, you poke guys, not girls, they're icky"

My aunt is a lesbian, But only far she had a terrible relationship with a man when she was young, got pregnant, and got her heart broken.

I am the oldest of three boys, right handed, parents still together, pretty stable environment growing up too. My younger brother is the middle one, left handed, but completely opposite of me, a brute, masculine, skinny, jockish, and from what I can tell really straight. My youngest brother though, He is REALLY similar to me. Time will tell.

As far as I know, I don't have much or any other family that is gay, as far as I know. It may not run in the family as much as others.

 

My mom has a friend she has 5 kids. 3 out 5 of her kids are gay. I think it is genetic and nothing related to the environment you grew up in.

 

Phew, thanks for setting me straight... wait...

 

As far as I know, within my extended family there are only three gay's (all guys) - there is me the oldest kid, and two of my cousin's cousins - youngest brothers out of seven kids.

The limited number of gay friends I have are all the only one of their families too - and usually the oldest.

Sorry - this got a bit long winded!


I think that's just a coincidence, especially in Europe.

Here in the UK, as with much of Europe, we had been through a period of about fifty years of depression and war which has seen the loss of many a life. The two world wars had seen women enter the work place, and especially after WWII they wanted to keep it that way, they had also been given the right to vote and with it a different political outlook was needed as women, in general, seam to care about more social aspects which politicians needed to turn towards to garner the vote. Couple this with the waves of immigrates arriving from the Empires before they fell and the details of the Holocaust coming out in the wake of the second world war. You were left with a population that knew change was needed and the likes of the NHS and European coöperation were born.

This forced a huge social change on the population and as we started to recover from the second world war the teenagers of the era (i.e. in the mid 1950s those born at the outbreak of war) wanted to be able to enjoy there life and explorer the world in their own way - there grand-parents generation had basically destroyed the continent and there parents generation had seen the horrors of war at first hand and wanted a better world for their kids.

As a response to this rebellion the police then started going in too hard on things that they saw as immoral and the population was open to these rules being changed. - for example during the early 1950s there was a large increase in men being convicted for Homosexual offences (including some who were well known people), which resulted in the government publishing the "Report of the Departmental Committee on Homosexual Offences and Prostitution" in 1957 and the decriminalisation of Homosexuality in England and Wales a decade later with the introduction of the "Sexual Offences Act 1967".

Throughout the 1950s and the decades since the teenager has made his own identity on the country and the strict rules there parents placed up on them have been gradually eroded meaning that as a population we have got more liberal over time. I think it's this social change (of which I'm sure drugs, legal and otherwise, have played a small part in) and wanting to avoid a repeat of World War II which have led us down this path.

Of course in a more simplistic view the decriminalisation of homosexuality meant more people were open about who they were, and each "generation"* have been able to be open in larger and larger numbers numbers, who have demanded more equality, which have led the next generation to feel more open, and who have demanded more equality etc... A snowball effect from a simple change to the law.

Just look at the last three generations.

When us 90s kids were in school "Section 28" (banning the promotion of Homosexuality in schools) was on the statue books, the age of consent was unequal, gays were unable to adopt, get married, be part of the armed forces, were legally allowed to be discriminated against at work and were unable to give blood. Also the representation of gay people on TV and in the wider media was very limited for much of the decade, Justin Fashanu was the only openly gay footballer and he committed suicide, Brookside had screened the first lesbian kiss in 1993 (and the same kiss then became the first gay kiss on TV across many countries in the world during the 2012 Olympic Games opening ceremony), and The Sun was outing people. As the sun-set on the decade Coronation Street introduced there first Transsexual character (who is still in the show today), Eastenders ran a gay storyline, and Queer As Folk was broadcast. At the very end of the decade the first boyband member Stephen Gatley came out (okay he was forced by The Sun, but this time they allowed him to tell his story and ran with the headline "Boyzone Stephen: I'm gay and in love"). However about the only thing which has changed since the 1950s was the decriminalisation of homosexuality.

By the time the 00s kids left school (e.g. my cousin's cousin - him and his brother being a year apart and the only two gay people I know in our extended family) the age of consent had been lowered, then equalised, Section 28 was a page in history, gay people can adopt and enter civil partnerships, are no longer allowed to be discriminated against at work, can serve in the armed forces, can enter a civil partnership and give blood (provided they haven't had sex for ten years - hmmmp). Throughout this decade the representation of gay characters on TV surged ahead and other musicians started to come out during their careers, while others are happy to show the families they are making (thank you Elton John and David Furnish) - gay people were becoming more and more visible in the eyes of the general population.

By the time the 10s kids leave school (e.g. my little brothers step-kids) gay people should be allowed to get married too (assuming the con-dem coalition doesn't do another u-turn) too - and pretty much all the legislation against gays will have been abolished (As it stands now Religious organisations will not be permitted to perform same-sex marriage in England & Wales even if they wanted too, and the gay-men blood ban is technically one on men who have had sex with men in the last ten years rather than gay-men a obviously a significant proportion of this number will be gay men! We are now seeing actors and musicians who aren't coming out - so to speak - it's just a facet of who they are, and sports men are now starting to come out at the end of their careers. It can't be much longer until there is an openly gay Premier League football player - can it?

* More decade than the 25 year steps ... - e.g. 80s kids, 90s kids, 00s kids