The Big Talk With My Wife...

I'm hoping my wife and I can do Weston's 3 1/2 option. I imagine something like a southern Will & Grace. One can dream.

Again thanks for your transparent journaling of this process. It's so helpful

 

Get ready for my harsh input guys, I'm a pro.
All this talk about staying with your wife in a new type of relationship that transcends conventional thinking whilst you come to the terms that ultimately you want to be in a relationship with a man sounds horrible. It's like there's a huge wound that your wife has suffered and it's time to take the plaster/ band-aid off but your going to do it really slowly. Every now and then you stop pulling and she hopes you might just stick it back down. You can pretend all you like that it's because you don't want to hurt her but the truth is it's really so that you don't have to yank it off quickly and see the pain it causes before finding yourself stood alone with a soggy band-aid in your hand.
I haven't been in this exact situation but I've been in a shit relationship where someone dragged out the end to make it easier for them whilst putting my life on hold.
Of course your wife will want to hold on to this, she has all kinds of hopes that you will be cured and go back to what you had before but that is not going to happen. Dragging it out is not for your wife and the longer it goes on, the less chance there is of a healthy relationship afterwards. I'd usually question why your wife hasn't ended it herself but I'm going to guess it's because you've done a brilliant job of saying just enough of all the right things to keep her hopes up and your options open.
The alternative is taking the big leap now, sure you will feel pain, you will loose a lot, you won't have anything to fall back on but the alternative is your wife suffering all that until you have prepared for your new life. Going sooner means your wife will at least have the opportunity to start repairing her own life.
Honestly I know this isn't my business so if you are going to drag it out for ages then fine but at least be honest with yourself as to the selfishness of the situation and don't try to pretend you're doing it all for her.
So there is my harsh input but sometimes it's hard to hear above all the smothering praise and well meant encouragement. I do think it's possible to have some kind of friendship with your wife if you handle this right but I also think it's wrong to manipulate someone else's emotions to benefit your own.
Please don't take offence, I'm just trying to add some balance to the conversation.

 

Harsh? Not the word I'd have chosen for this post. I can't comment on others just me, I am happy he's sharing this story. While I admit my thoughts on this are different, it is nice to know I'm but alone. Now the Will & Grace thing for me is a big crazy unrealistic dream I know. She is my best friend and the idea of losing her is gut wrenching. I didn't choose to be gay, I just am. And I'm actually ok with that, but the fact that I've drug her into this means I don't get a vote in what our relationship is when I come out. Divorce is the only option for us, but I'm still hoping we can be friends. Wishful thinking I know. My life would be easier if I sat her down right now and came out. That's what I want to do, if that makes me a bad person I am. Something I've not said is there have been 2 times, when she had gotten really upset she has implied she would hurt herself. This is why I'm waiting to summer, unless she brings it up. That way, if the worst thing possible happens there is 8 weeks to help put her back together since I'm completely shattering her. I hope this makes a bit more sense on my choice to wait. I have told her I need space. So no intimate stuff at all. This would only cause more confusion. She agreed to give me time, so as long as that works I'll stick to the plan. End of may I'll be completely out.

 

I have to disagree with Calf here. I just don't see it the same way and I think it comes from a different age and life experience perspective and random may have touched on this.

Regardless of sexual orientation, one thing about marriage is that you get used to protecting your spouse...it is sort of part of the deal. One cannot just toss that aside. What may seem selfish to others on the outside may not be this at all. Our first reaction is to protect our family from everything we can...even something we cannot control from within.

Trying to figure out ways to keep our spouses and children safe is not selfishness, it is selflessness. The easiest thing might be to rip off the bandaid and walk out the door. The end result, of trying to protect our loved ones, may be that the pain does continue for longer...I don't know. What I can see is that Herewego's actions are not self serving.

 

However we decide to remove the bandaid, whether it's quickly or slowly, we have to live with that decision. I would love to rip it off believe me, but I know I will forever feel badly that I made it worse by being so abrupt. We all have enough pain as it is without adding guilt and regret to it.

 

I was glad that HereWeGo ignored Calf's first post. Since the issue on the table, I will offer my own perspective.

Calf hasn't been around this block and yet he claims to offer harsh advice, which seems to be an attempt at self-importance rather than a genuine interest in helping HereWeGo with sympathetic, tough questions that help to clarify his thought process. The reality is that Calf has no clue what it means to be in a mixed-orientation marriage or how hard it is to unravel decades of denial and come out to a loving wife, yet he feels qualified to dispense so-called harsh advice to HWG. What is the basis for this claim? Calf's analysis and advice are simplistic and one-dimensional at best and center too much on himself (look at me, I'm offering tough advice). My advice to Mr. Calf is that he needs to get his own house in order before attempting to advise others coming out in a mixed-orientation marriage.

---------- Post added 11th Mar 2016 at 11:13 PM ----------

HereWeGo,

Apologies for the :soapbox: I felt that my perspective might be helpful in focusing the discussion.

 

I don't agree with everything Calf said, or particularly the way it was said. The fact that someone verbalized my fear, makes me appreciate our situation so much more. His thoughts are what I'm worried others are saying and will say. I am glad to have to face it here first, that's just me though.

HereWeGo, I subscribe to this thread. Just so I don't miss one of your posts. This has helped me, those who have came on with hard questions and even my feeble attempts to add to this have all been a great relief. I'm not going through this by myself, someone gets how I feel. You pointed out that we are in different places in our life earlier on this thread and you were right. I still feel like I understand some of what your feeling. Stumbling through this is hard enough. But doing it alone, I wouldn't survive that. So again thanks.

SiennaFire another one who doesnt hold back lol. You do dive right in with tough questions. Thank you for that. That is what makes EC great. Discussing, disagreeing, helping thank y'all for what y'all do.

 

You know how I feel about you, I know you're not a bad person, there's nothing wrong in wanting to preserve everything that is good in your life whilst moving forward in other areas.

This is where my post is grounded. This thread is filled with posts by anonymous authors detailing their life from their point of view. I was trying to highlight that there are a lot of anonymous wives out there that are going through this with them and that they may not have the same support, and I am just as concerned for their happiness as everyone else concerned.

---------- Post added 12th Mar 2016 at 02:30 PM ----------

Thanks for seeing it like that and not just judging me for my opinion

What if the thing they need protecting from right now is you/us? Nobody wants to hurt their loved ones but when we do, don't we have to deal with that?

I agree, but just because we say we do it for our families doesn't mean that we are. That was my initial point, though maybe I could have made it a bit better. I doubt that anyone doesn't care about their families otherwise they would have walked on day one, or be having affairs with men behind their wife's back. That is obviously worse.

---------- Post added 12th Mar 2016 at 02:32 PM ----------

Agreed.

---------- Post added 12th Mar 2016 at 02:49 PM ----------

I get that compassion is what you want right now and I wouldn't deny you that, I know you think we have such different views but if there comes a time when you want my support, you can have it.
I'd hate you to think that I don't want to read your honest story. I'm genuinely interested and I do appreciate your openness, even though I am not sharing your situation.

I know that some people might think it but I'm not so simple that I think there is an easy answer that will magically make your life turn Disney. I know it's complicated but I just like to pick out the points that others avoid or that have gotten lost in all the noise. I'm not suggesting that you don't think about your family for one minute.

Why is she not able to share this with her friends and family to get the support she needs?

 

First point, I haven't claimed to offer any advice.

Secondly am I self-important? I know my own worth, I am confident in my beliefs, I am happy with the person I am, I love myself. So, Yes I suppose I am.

You are right, I have never been in a mixed-orientation(?) marriage. I don't even understand what that is but the fact that you are making such a clear distinction between your opinion of opposite-sex and same-sex relationships is intriguing to me. Do you believe that the same-sex relationships that I have experienced are in some way less significant than had they been with women?

Again, just for emphasis, I did not claim to dispense advice.

What is the basis for your claim? What is the basis for anybody's claim? This is after all an anonymous internet forum. Do you ask for evidence and qualification from everyone here or just those that have a varying opinion to your own?

Now your advice to me (yes you actually offered advice). I am open to it and if you have some constructive words of wisdom to offer then go ahead but please only if you are in a qualified position or identical situation to me.

 

I think Mr. Calf's original point is well taken. One needs to be self-aware throughout this process. If I thought for a moment that my wife was still harboring some faint hope that things could once again be like they used to be, I would be out of here yesterday. But it's been almost two years since I came out to her, and the reality is that things will never be the same. She understands that. She has already moved on. She is dating, planning her future, being independent in ways she always relied on me for.

And now it's time for us to be serious about me moving out. It still will be emotionally wrenching, but we will get through it. And remain the best of friends. Luckily, for us, the economics of the decision are not too concerning (we both already live relatively simply). Our impending separation is really all about living authentically — me as an independent, out gay man; her as an available single woman with prospects.

Of course, what works for us is not for everybody. But I have been on the other side of the "band-aid pulled off quickly" scenario. After I came out, my "trigger crush" dropped me like a hot potato, and we had no contact whatsoever for nine months. I was devastated, had no idea what had happened, and eventually sought counseling to try to figure it out. Even though I'm at peace with it now and even see him socially on occasion, I am scarred by it. There's no way I could have put my wife through that.

 

I'd say that was more sticking the knife in and twisting it than pulling off the Band-Aid.
Is it fair for me to assume that you and your wife were in-it-together if that makes sense? It was as much about her new life as it was about yours? I'm just trying to understand how it worked so well for the two of you where it hasn't for others.

 

Calf,

Out of respect for HereWeGo, I'm not going to engage in a debate with you in this thread. I made my point, the OP appreciated it, and I'm going to leave it at that.

Please PM if you'd like to discuss further. Thanks.

 

I think that's exactly it. We'd lived together 30 years; we'd known each other pretty well (well, except for The One Big Thing). When I came out to my wife she experienced all the various stages of grief with the exception of anger. Certainly she went through denial and bargaining, where she obviously still held faint hopes of "normalcy" returning. But then she got over it. Relatively quickly, I might add (perhaps because we're older, kids grown, financially stable, etc., but also perhaps because she has a lot of experience with gay men, having lived with two throughout her 12 years of college). She accepted that things would not change, that I would never again be "straight." Moreover, she discovered she did not even feel jealous, since there was no way she could compete with a man for my affections.

What happened next is something I will always admire her for: she accepted the challenge of building a new life for herself at age 67, daunting as it must have seemed. Never big on clothes, she began buying new, more expensive ones that fit her well. She had her hair styled professionally for the first time in years. Not having dated, even in a conventional sense, for 30 years, she joined a couple of computer dating sites and began accepting dates. In short, she made herself vulnerable. And it worked! So far, she's had two lasting relationships: one on-going and the first, of six months duration (she dropped him).

This, of course, is all very convenient for me, as I will be the first to admit. It reduces the guilt I will always feel. But at the same time, I think she is experiencing a sense of rejuvenation in all aspects of her life, professionally as well as emotionally. She has also become active again sexually, for the first time in many years. I think she is basically happy, as am I. We both of us have been afforded an opportunity to remake ourselves at this late stage in our lives, instead of merely "waiting for death."

 

Herewego

I hope you continue to post here. I think it can be very helpful, to ourselves, to write down our experiences and thoughts. There is a clarity, sometimes, that comes through in the written text. And, your experience is helpful to others. Sort of the reason for this forum I would suppose.

Best of luck

 

Very painfully. My wife did not embrace therapy/support groups initially, so I was the punching bag. I was called faggot so many times I lost count. The exercise forced me to reclaim the word, so I'm stronger for it.

There's an element that was not covered by the therapist that is equally important to consider - emotional connection. For me, I relate emotionally far better with men than women. I came out because I could not fully meet this need without being out. Don't get me wrong, sex is important, but it's more than just sex. I need the emotional connection with a guy, which makes the sex that much better.

Is it possible that you are the one who needs the space? Otherwise it's quite normal for things to be awkward given where you are.

Good for you! This is the attitude that is required, there's no turning back. We've worked too hard to get here and the painful process is only temporary.

I've found that as I've progressed along my journey that material things are far less important to me now than before. Now I'm living in authenticity and that's priceless. Before I used material things to reinforce the deception (I have these nice things, life's not so bad...). You'll need to be more frugal for sure, but the increased peace of mind is well worth it in my experience.

Glad that you are reading and learning from the book. You will need time to get comfortable with the idea of dating a guy and having an emotional connection with him, but it will happen. You can certainly join a support group for married guys/gay dads if you wanted to date a gay who was married to a woman. Who knows you might even find a guy in West Hollywood who is the total package and completes you in ways your wife cannot.

It's your body, so it's OK to say no thank you.

We didn't start telling our friends (except for 1-2 trusted ones) until we told our family (kids and family of origin). It would be awful if your kids found out through a backchannel. You'll want to get some clarity about divorce before telling the kids, since they will care far more about how divorce impacts them than who you love.

 

I discovered soon after I came out to my wife that I'm no longer comfortable appearing naked before her. That surprised me, as I've never been particularly shy about my body. I think that probably it's not her I'm hiding from, but females in general. I have no such reticence in the men's locker room.

My wife and I still hug and kiss occasionally, usually when one of us asks for or needs it. The hugs are nothing more than what I might give my best (straight male) friend, and the kisses are mere pecks on the lips, but we both seem to enjoy them and feel no constraint about asking for or offering them.

 

(*hug*)

I'm sorry HereWeGo. You have so much to deal with. I don't really have any advice, but I understand your fear of what happens next and the fallout of these difficult conversations. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could go to sleep and wakeup and be past it all?

 

Hugs to you, HereWeGo. It ain't easy.