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The Big Talk With My Wife...

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by HereWeGo, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. GayMarriedDad

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    I found this site about a month or so ago, desperate to find a place where being gay and married is discussed. I didn't actually join until just now, after reading this thread. My story, while not the same in all events, certain have identical thoughts, feelings, stages, and effects. Thank you, HWG for sharing your story. And... hugs. I look forward to reading the stories involving some of those who have replied here. It seems like I'm in quite familiar company. Hi.
     
  2. HereWeGo

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    :welcome:

    Welcome GMD! You'll find many people on this site who are in a similar situation as yourself. I've found this to be an amazing community that will support you and comfort you on those difficult days and cheer you on during the great ones.

    If you ever have trouble sharing your thoughts and feelings with others, this is a place you can safely open up and be your true self.

    We're on a special journey that only others in the same situation can understand, so know you're in great company.

    Hope to hear more from you soon.
     
  3. Weston

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    Participating in this forum is an excellent place to start, GayMarriedDad, but I would urge you also to investigate whether there's a gay dads' support group in your area. These groups can be extremely valuable in breaking down the isolation so many of us feel by helping us recognize that we are not alone. The focus usually is on men who are in mixed orientation marriages, with or without children, who are searching for solutions to their awakening sexuality. Just make sure you do due diligence in selecting such a group — there are some with similar-sounding names that are focused on developing parenting skills for gay couples with adopted children or facilitating meet-ups for gay "sons" in search of "dads." LOL
     
    #143 Weston, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  4. Morgana

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    I hope what I have to say helps. I have found in my life that being romantically attracted to someone isn't necessarily tied to being sexually attracted to someone. For myself, I prefer some level of emotional context with someone with whom I have sex. That can be (for example) friendship, respect, or romantic love. I've been married to my wife for coming on 12 years. We rarely have sex. I still love her and respect her and find her the most important person in my life. I date other people, and for me the attraction is not dependent on gender. I have dated trans women, and cis women. I have found myself attracted to trans and cis men, although I haven't dated someone like that yet, mostly because the attraction wasn't reciprocated.

    My gender-fluidity and polyamorous nature are both known and accepted by my wive, but it was by no means an easy thing. It took months of therapy for both of us, but as a couple and individually. I had guilt and shame issues to deal with from many years ago, and she had self-esteem issues to deal with as well.

    Sexual attraction isn't a binary solution set, any more than gender is. It's a spectrum and some us are quite sure our places, and others of us have to explore till we find where we are.

    I hope this helps somewhat,

    Morgana
     
  5. HereWeGo

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    DAY EIGHTY-THREE

    This is the first day since I came out that I am angry… so very very angry. I’m seething. I’m mad at myself, mad at my wife, mad at my therapist, mad at my situation. I’m pissed off.

    It started by being one of the best weeks in a long time. My wife and I have had a real connection as of late. We had sex a couple of times. There’s been lots of back rubs and snuggling… holding hands. We’ve had two wonderful Sundays being a family with the kids enjoying each other’s company. There’s a part of the gay itch that receded a bit. I’m not naïve enough to think it’s going away but and I also don’t feel I’m becoming complacent with the affection I have for my wife.

    I came to a realization this week that I truly don’t want to completely leave my wife and kids. This is not because I’m afraid of change or because I don’t have the strength to run out. I realize I have a very special bond with my wife. We’re really tight and I don’t want to lose that. I felt it with a confidence the last few nights that was so strong.

    Outside the relationship, things have been rocky. I finished my work project so I’m officially on the dole. Money is super tight at the moment. As in, we can’t even pay our mortgage this month. On Thursday I got into an accident on my Vespa. I T-boned a guy who turned illegally right in front of me. I was so fortunate to walk away with just a little road rash on the knee and a sore back. Outside of my family, my Vespa is the thing that makes me the happiest. I can go 200-300 miles in the mountains, clear my head and get my wits about me. I was looking forward to doing that after the crazy-ass hours I had on my job, but now that’s out of the picture until the bike gets fixed. On top of that my wife works from home, so when I’m not working we’re both spending lots of time together in a teeny-tiny house. I try to tuck away in a corner somewhere to have my space. I mention these things to say I have a lot going on.

    I used some of my free time to start researching more about my situation. Over the past couple of months, I’d read in fits and starts at work, but it was hard to dedicate time to really dig deeper. So this week I spent some time at the Straight Spouse Network. It’s known as a place where a bunch of bitter straight- spouses bitch and moan about how their gay significant others left them. Reading through the forum, that’s the sentiment I got. It seemed to me that these people felt victimized, betrayed and duped as if the gay spouse was purposely pulling the wool over their eyes. Which is true to a certain extent, but I wanted to scream out at these people “Don’t you know your husband just hadn’t come to terms with his sexuality yet?” “Don’t you realize he finally realized who he was and needs to find out what makes him truly happy?” These gay men (and women) were called selfish, adolescent and narcissistic.

    I thought then and there that I don’t want to be those things. I want to be mindful of my wife’s feelings. I want to appreciate that my sexual identity is very new to her and that I’ve had a much longer time to process things (even though I myself am confused). I want to treat my situation in such a way that there won’t be resentment.

    Then I found another part of the website that featured couples telling their stories of staying together and how they made it work. It was a small glimmer of hope on a website that was fundamentally negative. The pattern I noticed right away is that the couples who stuck things out and were happy, were people that opened up their marriage. The gay spouse was allowed the freedom to explore and so was the straight spouse. These stories were lovely. These were couples that have been together 20-30 years. They had the best of both worlds. Given how I feel about my wife yet knowing I have this other gay side the idea of an open marriage made me feel optimistic. For the first time I thought THIS is something I can very happily live with.

    I started looking at other Mixed Orientation Marriage (MOM) websites. A lot had to do with bisexuals, but they applied to me as well. There was the same theme. Open marriages seemed to bring happiness and made bonds stronger. One website called alternatepaths.net even had several examples of rules that couples should put in place when opening the marriage. The key is open communication, open communication and open communication. I was excited that this was a possibility.

    That night I curled up with my wife with such confidence. We had sex, but I enjoyed it so much with this secure feeling that there are so many different options and I don’t have to just abandon ship. I felt so sure, for me at least, that this was the path to take.

    We had couples therapy scheduled for Wednesday (today) and I couldn’t wait to get there. I wanted to express all the different directions our marriage could go and that opening it up is one of them. I wanted to make it explicitly clear that I will not be truly happy in my life if I never get to explore my true sexual identity.

    We both went into therapy in a good mood. We took our shoes off and I spent the entire session feet curled up, facing sideways so I could look at my wife.

    She jumped in right away, rehashing so much of what’s happened since our last session a month ago. It’s all stuff I’ve mentioned in previous posts. She spoke matter of fact as did I. She was unequivocal about the fact that I’m gay, but that it doesn’t have to be everything.

    When it was my turn to speak, there were a few things I wanted to get across. I expressed (again) that this thing I’m feeling is not cerebral. I can’t just ignore it or turn it off. “I know I sound like a crazy person talking when I say this, but it’s so much more primal that I don’t think you can understand.” For the first time I spoke about living authentically. I once again expressed that I wished there was a way to explain what I’m going through in layman’s terms. I used the analogy of being in the wrong skin similar to a trans person who feels like he/she was born in the wrong body. “I know it’s a little more complicated because I’m a man who still desires to be a man, but it’s sort of the same.”

    I also mentioned that I was trying to be reflective of my behavior and that I was really trying to recognize that maybe my wife needed more time to process our situation. I said I would try to slow down and let her “catch up” to where I am. Which that garnered the question “catch up to what?” I didn’t really have an answer.

    At one point my therapist asked how I’d feel if I were able to explore the other side and experience sex with men. I was silent for a long time. Partly because I wanted to find the right words, but also I was a little afraid how my answer would be taken. Finally I said “At peace.” That was a watershed moment for me. To be able to say THAT is what would bring me peace is a huge thing to admit. It’s what I really wanted to get across in the session… and yet, in the end it felt like a throw-away line. It wasn’t explored. We didn’t dig deeper into that moment.

    My wife also brought up the fear she has about me joining a gay men’s support group (again I won’t go into details as I’ve talked about it before). I expressed my need to talk about my experience with others who are going through the same thing I am. The therapist didn’t really weigh-in on one side or the other. She just acknowledged each of our feelings on the issue. That was disappointing for me.

    And then my wife brought up all the stuff about being gay isn’t everything about me. I’m also a father, a husband, all these other hats… and that we need to focus on that too. That turned the conversation to our other domestic issues. I’ll be honest, we have lots of reasons we should have been going to therapy way before I came out. The big one is money. How can I focus all my energy on trying to figure out my sexuality when we can’t even pay our mortgage? This is where I got angry at the therapist. She suggested that we’re in crisis mode financially and we need to figure out a solution to that. She suggested that I take my sexuality and put in a box for a bit until we can resolve our money problems. And then the rest of the session became about that.

    I felt so unsatisfied at the end of our session. I wanted to scream “I put my sexuality in a box the last month while I was working 14-16 hour a day. MY SEXUAL IDENTITY IS EVERYTHING TO ME RIGHT NOW! I’m living this inauthentic life! You say you have no capacity for me to go out and have sex with someone else. That is your line in the sand. That is your boundary. OK. I acknowledge that! My line in the sand is that I NEED to explore this other side of me. I want to do that without blowing up our marriage. It can happen! People do it! I WILL DIE A SLOW MULTI-DECADE LONG DEATH IF I CAN’T LIVE AN AUTHENTIC LIFE!!!!!”

    I was silent the whole car ride home. “You look pissed,” my wife said. Yes, I was! But I blew it off. I told her I wanted to digest what was said in the session. I wanted to think about it for a while before discussion.

    The second I got home, I locked myself in the bathroom and sobbed for half an hour. How can she not understand? How can she not be more open? Why couldn’t I be stronger in telling her what I need?

    Even around the house, I was quiet. She checked in on me a couple of times and I kept saying I wasn’t ready to talk.

    Ten minutes before I had to run out the door to pick up my son she said “I’m really concerned about you.” I told her I wanted to talk but I don’t like to be rash. I told her that I felt like I wasn’t heard in the session today by either her or our therapist. I told her I wanted to talk more about my sexuality but now feel like I can’t because I’m being “adolescent” by focusing on just that. (I also mentioned that adolescence is a term that’s thrown around a lot when an older gay person comes out).

    She in return says my recent conversations speak of walking toward something. “When you first told me about your attraction to men, it sounded as if the attraction is a distraction for our marriage. Now you talk as if our marriage is a distraction to you wanting to be gay. That’s a profound shift and it scares me.” Once again, she made it abundantly clear that me hooking up with a guy is a complete deal breaker and one of us will have to walk out the door. “What if it were reversed and I needed to be with a woman? Would you really condone me having a relationship with one? You don’t need to answer that because it doesn’t matter. I know how I feel and I can’t have that happen. I know once you get a taste of that other side, there’s no going back. There’s no way you’ll want to come back to me.” I was silent. What is there to say to that in the moment?

    How do I really think? I think she’s wrong. I think other couples have open relationships and I think we should give it a go. I think the ability for her to trust me and explore my sexuality will make our relationship stronger. I think I can be a BETTER father and husband because I would not be carrying around resentment. But can I say this to her in the moment? No! Because to her ears, even acknowledging that I would consider an open marriage means betrayal… that I have ulterior motives… that I don’t consider her number one. I think she is wrong! Wrong! Wrong! I acknowledge that not everyone can be receptive to an open marriage. I understand that she’s not secure enough to let that happen.

    I’m playing by her rules right now, and it sucks. I don’t have a pot to piss in. We can’t afford to split up. BUT I DON’T WANT TO! It’s her line in the sand that would split us up! Not the fact that I’m gay. But I know that will fall on deaf ears. I’m resigned to be the bad guy in this. I can’t win. At some point, you can chalk me up as another bitter statistic on the Straight Spouse Network.
     
  6. Nickw

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    Would you be happy with a marriage that allowed you play time with men? A marriage where you could have both? See, I would be thrilled if I could have both. But, I sense that you maybe wouldn't be? Do you see casual sex with guys working anyway?
     
    #146 Nickw, May 11, 2016
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  7. HereWeGo

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    DAY NINETY-FIVE

    The night after our couples therapy session two weeks ago, I was exhausted. I went to bed early, brooding. Each time I woke up, the bed next to me was empty. My wife finally crawled in after 1am, but she tossed and turned and sighed. This happens every time we have a conversation where she feels I’m on the cusp of leaving her. I’m too groggy to talk in that moment. I feel nothing will be resolved, and yet I feel guilty that I’m trying to sleep while she lets things fester.

    There’s a detail in my previous post that I forgot to mention. During our heated conversation after therapy where she accused me of having a foot out the door to live a gay lifestyle and she told me it was monogamy or nothing I asked her: “Have you even been reading about Mixed Orientation Couples? Because that’s what we are. We’re officially an acronym, a label: MOM – Mixed Orientation Marriage!”

    Unbeknownst to me, this is why she was up so late. She was reading up on MOMs. I found out the next day when she called me while I was driving around town. I pulled over so I wouldn’t be distracted. Even though I was only 20 minutes from home, we spoke for almost an hour. She told me about the research she found on mixedorientation.com. It’s a first person account of what the author went through telling his wife that he was bisexual. He discusses the things all us married people feel when harboring the secret of our sexual identity: the pain, the suffering, the lack that something is missing… “I’m beginning to understand,” my wife said. Even though the author was not saying much different than what I’d been conveying to my wife all along, there was something about hearing it from another source that validated my emotions and needs. It was such a relief that she was starting to comprehend what I was going through. Maybe there was hope yet. I’d spent the previous week contemplating open marriage but was shut down before we could even have a conversation about it. The website spends a significant amount of time talking about open marriages. Did she read this part? Was she open to it?

    This is the passage that stuck out to her: “Acceptance of one’s gay, lesbian, or bisexual self is a core component of a successful mixed-orientation marriage. Note that accepting sexual orientation is very different from accepting sexual activity.” She reiterated yet again that an open marriage was not on the table, but for the first time, I was able to express back to her that the scenario had occurred to me. I broached it in a careful way. I told her that when dealing with my situation I wanted to look at all options and that having an open marriage is one possibility. I made it clear that I wasn’t giving an ultimatum but that I think we need to at least talk about every option to see what works for us. I acknowledged that I understood how she felt on the issue. “I’ve been in a lot of sexual relationships,” she said. “Some of them have been when I was really drunk and yes, there were times I woke up and didn’t know the guy next to me. But each time you have sex with someone, there’s always the possibility of intimacy. You can’t have sex for just the sake of sex without that chance of forming a bond with someone that could impact our intimacy.” I wanted to mention bath houses, but I didn’t want to put that image in her head and it’s something that gives me the creeps anyway (no judgement, just not for me.) “I can’t compete with somebody else. I can’t sit at home knitting knowing you’re out having sex being intimate with someone.”

    That afternoon I went back and reread much of the website. I wished I’d done it sooner. There were things that stuck out to me that I hadn’t retained before. Naturally depending on where I am in my journey, different things in the text are going to speak to me. What I focused on that day was being mindful, consider how this is affecting your spouse and take baby steps. I was also struck by the thought that if you truly love your spouse, why not exhaust all possibilities to try and stay together instead of throwing in the towel. The site mentions the importance of having a group of gay friends. It was comforting to know that my wife read that so she understood why I value those kinds of friends. But the text also said to take time before dipping a toe in those waters. The things I was reading started to align with what had been discussed in therapy the day before. As angry as I was with the therapy session, maybe there was more truth in it than I wanted to hear.

    So in the days that followed I tried to follow the text. I was more mindful of my wife’s needs. She got a really bad cold and was in bed for three days. I took care of the kids and everything else around the house, like any nice husband would do if their wife was sick. We did lots of snuggling too, which then turned us both on. The sex became rather frequent and I was initiating.

    I’m between projects at the moment and my wife works from home so we’ve had the house to ourselves while the kids are in school. A few days ago, we had sex and then laid in bed for three hours talking, our bodies intertwined. I’ve been loving our new found intimacy.

    On Friday the two of us ran some errands and then grabbed a quick sandwich. While we ate outside, I asked my wife what she wanted to do for our anniversary. We’ve both been hemming and hawing. I’ve been afraid of the day to be honest. I wanted to treat the day as a true celebration of the last 17 years we’ve been married (and the other five before that). I was mainly afraid of her emotions that day. Could she be happy celebrating the time we’ve had together without the whole gay thing getting in the way? She asked how my therapy was going and I said I’ve been happy with the way I’ve been figuring things out. I also said I’ve been really content the last few days, that I’ve been happy focusing the attention more on her and us. She questioned if I might be in some sort of denial of the bigger picture. I laughed because I posed the same question to my therapist. But I quickly dismissed it because if I’m in denial, then it’s the deepest denial that I’ve been in my entire life.

    At some point I alluded to the fact that I have nothing else to hide, that I’m an open book. And for the first time, I started sharing my sexual fantasies with her (in a public restaurant). I told her that I fantasize about being submissive, completely turning myself over to somebody. She asked if the fantasies always involved men. They do, but I added that they never involve my wife because I see her as being on a higher plane. I think of her in other roles in my life, but it feels weird to think of her as being dominant. “I’m not surprised,” she said. “It’s the Madonna complex. Men see their wives differently.” I told her the men in my fantasies are usually faceless. I then sheepishly told her that I like a little pain as well. “I wonder if that’s a way of feeling something when it’s out of control like when someone cuts themselves.”

    “It’s definitely not like that,” I jumped in quickly. “There’s an intensity to it and its exciting.”

    “How do you know,” she asked.

    I got quiet “I’ve experimented on myself,” I said sheepishly. (Boy the lady at the table next to me must have LOVED this conversation.)

    I told my wife how embarrassed I am to tell her these things. That I feel shame because I’ve been trying to live out these fantasies on my own.

    The next day was an insane day of driving kids all over town from one event to another. I snuck away just long enough to get an anniversary card. I read every single card in the store. I wanted to find the exact right sentiment. I wanted something that didn’t make promises that I couldn’t keep. I avoided things that said “I will love you and be with you forever.” That limited my options. There was one about being soul mates, which I think my wife and I are, but the rest of the sentiments didn’t match. But I finally found something. hen, throughout the day I found ten minutes here and there to work on the letter I wanted to give her along with the card. Soon the day slipped away and I found myself typing into the night.

    My wife said she was going to bed, but I know she can’t sleep until I’m in bed too. So at five minutes to midnight she got up and sat next to me on the couch. She handed me a card. It was filled with beautiful sentiments, and the handwritten addendums rang true. “I still choose you every day, every year, every lifetime. Look at us now. Two perfect children, 21 years of adventures and I love you more than I ever could’ve imagined. My best friend, lover and confidant for the rest of my life. I’m yours.” She chose to stay in the moment about us.

    I told her I had a letter for her. I typed it on the computer and was planning on writing it out, but I was willing to read it now instead.

    “I’ve been staring at a blank page for the past five minutes afraid to put pen to paper. So many thoughts swirl around my head. So many directions a hand written letter can go.

    I’ve been afraid of our anniversary for a couple of weeks. How does one celebrate such a significant day when our marriage has been thrown the biggest curveball imaginable? Does one ignore the turmoil for 24 hours and pretend it does not exist? Do we wallow in melancholy acknowledging the day but suppress ourselves from rejoicing too much? Is it somewhere in between?

    I know how I want to feel about today. I want to spend our time reflecting on the wonderful life we’ve shared together so far. We’ve written an incredible story together. Our young love emerged as we learned about one another and explored each other. It was an exciting time in our lives. Each adventure we had together I learned more about you and learned to love you even more…”

    It went on as I expressed the many ways I love her, the ways we’ve gown together and the hundreds of ways she’s made me a better man.

    “We’re still writing our story. In some ways I feel like we’re back at the early part of our relationship. We’re opening ourselves up, making ourselves vulnerable, but learning more about each other 20+ years later. And once again, I find it exciting.”

    Then I ended it be restating the vow I made to her 17 years earlier. It’s one thing to type it out and hand it over in a letter, but there I was, sitting on the couch with my wife at midnight on the eve of our anniversary, reaffirming my vows to her:

    “I love you with all my heart and soul. For the rest of my life I promise to love you and care for you, learn from you and grow with you. I will celebrate my pride for you. I will encourage the best in you. I will listen to you and support you. I open my heart to you as a sanctuary of warmth and peace where you may find refuge of love and strength. As your lifetime friend, lover and confidant, I look forward to continuing this glorious adventure we’ve begun.”​


    Every word rang true. I cried as I made my way through the last few lines. She started crying as well. “I was so afraid there was going to be a ‘but’ at the end of the letter,” she said.

    “No,” I said, “I’m here for you.”

    I wiped the tears away, we kissed, and went to bed.

    The next day, my wife and I had planned a day trip to some wineries, just the two of us. But the babysitting plans fell through and we couldn’t drop the kids off until 2pm, so we were left scrambling at the last minute figuring out what to do. Sitting in a restaurant didn’t sound enticing to either of us. We resigned ourselves to going to a movie. How romantic, sitting in the dark for two hours not talking to each other. We had some time to kill beforehand so we went to a bar for a drink. I wasn’t even in the mood to drink, but we did anyway. There was more talk about me, us, the gay me. By the time we were done with the drink I wasn’t in the mood to go to the movies. I wasn’t in a bad mood, just bummed because our romantic day trip fell through.

    We walked a few blocks down the street and ended up in an adult toy store. (the same one where we drive by and my 12-year-old proclaims “Dad, there’s a giant dildo in the window!) I’ve certainly had a lot of experience in these places over the years meeting my own needs, but my wife is very shy about it. It helped that there was a woman working behind the counter. We looked at all the vibrators and oils and things. I wanted to run over to the butt plugs, cock rings and other toys that I like, but I was still equally shy about letting my wife know what I like. I guess, I’m more embarrassed sharing because I’ve had lots of experience with those toys without her. I did finally point out a P-spot stimulator. I told her I had one and that it feels amazing! We made our way over to the bondage and fetish gear. I was getting so turned on being in the store with her. “Shall we go home and be by ourselves for a while?” I asked. We left without making a purchase. If we were going to try this submissive thing, then we’d work with what we had at home and then learn what we needed to supplement.

    I tied her up with several of her scarves. We both acknowledged that this was our first time trying this and it might get a little bumpy at times. But then I went to work using the few tools we had available. Ice, tickling, a small vibrator. I loved seeing her get all worked up. At one moment I walked away and came back around the corner, shocked with excitement that this was my wife tied up. I let her go about 45 minutes later. She loved the moment, but admitted that for her, she wanted contact with me at the end, which I didn’t give her. I told her if she was content and didn’t feel like reciprocating it was okay. I could go either way in the moment.

    But she was ready to have a go at me. I sheepishly revealed a couple of my toys. I said she could use them if she wanted but didn’t have to if that made her uncomfortable. She said she’d love to, but wanted my guidance the first time, which would be hard if I was tied up. So those got left for a future occasion.

    She blindfolded me and then went about performing and doing things that I’d only previously imagined. I laid naked and vulnerable in front of her. I was touched in ways I’d never experienced. I writhed and completely let myself go in a way I’ve never done in my entire life. I moaned in ways I never have before. And just when I thought I couldn’t take any more, she climbed on top and I finished inside her.

    My therapist today called this a peak-moment. It’s a moment that is so clear to me that I will retain the memory of all my senses. This was a culmination of me shedding my secrets, shaking my fears, feeling the most vulnerable I’ve felt, and having one of the best sexual moments of my life. For the first time, I understood what it means to be authentic. And surprisingly, I wasn’t being authentic with a man, like I’d been obsessing about for so long. And it was that final connecting moment when I was inside her that was so important… something I couldn’t have understood in my fantasies.

    It’s funny, because to some people, what we did may not have been a big deal or seen as average play, but this was truly a breakthrough moment for me. I started crying this morning thinking about it.

    I’ve spent my last two therapy sessions questioning my sexual identity again. Am I gay? There are gay people who run screaming at the very sight of a vagina. How can I happily be engaging in intercourse with my wife and loving the connection we’re making if I’m truly gay? Am I still attracted to men? Absolutely! I don’t think there will ever be another woman in my life besides my wife. Yet I’m loving this sexual awakening with her. Maybe that makes me bisexual and I was more afraid of that word because it’s so often used as a transition word when men come out of the closet later in life. I want to throw all those labels out the door. My therapist today said my sexual identity can’t be summed up in one or two words. My label involves a few sentences, maybe a whole paragraph.

    I’m a man who is attracted to men. Sometimes I fantasize about having sex with them. I love my wife, like truly love her and want her in my life every day. I enjoy having sex with her and being intimate with her. I’m submissive and enjoy a little pain. And for the first time in my life I feel authentic.

    I’m going to keep reading and re-reading the mixed orientation website as a guide. I’m going to keep reading to figure out this other gay part of me. I’m so grateful that I allowed myself to take things slow after I came out to myself and my wife. In the heat of some moments, I could have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and left to seek out this “gay life”, but I’m so glad I didn’t. Is it still out there? Of course it is. But I’m so glad that I’m giving another chance to the part of me that loves my wife.

    I’m the happiest and most joyful I’ve been in I don’t know how long. The world seems fresh and new.
     
  8. Adray

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    You are such an amazingly good writer, and it is such an emotional subject for you. Good job on the progress you have made. Your love for your wife is really nice to read, too.

    I share some of the same desires and fantasies as you, and I have had same-sex attractions for a long time, 30 years at least. It has been fairly constant for me. Like you, I am married to a woman (15 years in my case).

    We do occasionally engage in strapon play. It is powerful and amazingly satisfying. Sorry if this is getting R-rated, but I'd encourage you and your wife to explore this more. If she's like my wife, she will be hesitant at first, afraid she might hurt you. When you find what feels good, encourage her to take over and be the dominant one, really give you a thorough workout. Sorry again about the explicitness here... LOL.

    You mentioned that labels can be frustrating. For me, the label "bisexual" is positive, affirming, meaningful. It's me, it sums up my true orientation - now as well as over the years. My wife and I have found a way to make it work out great. I am now in the process of coming out as bi, as well.

    I'm not saying you are bi, I have no idea about that. But I am. And I love my wife and share some same-sex attractions and fantasy that you expressed. I just wanted to put that here in case you or anybody else reading here wondered if anyone had that path, that experience.

    Good luck, HWG. I hope you find true happiness and fulfillment, wherever your path takes you. (*hug*)
     
  9. nerdbrain

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    Wow, just wow.

    I'm so happy to hear that you've made a breakthrough. You were extremely honest, patient and resilient and it looks like it paid off. I hope this is the beginning of a new chapter in your life.

    As usual, I identify with so much of what you write, right down to the specific fantasies with faceless men. But I never had the balls to talk about being submissive with my wife. Frankly when I imagined it, it seemed weird to me. So instead I left her, assuming that my fantasies meant that I would eventually, inevitably, turn out gay.

    Reading what you've written, I wonder if I jumped the gun. Maybe there really is a middle ground. Good luck, and keep posting!
     
  10. HereWeGo

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    Not once did I ever think I could do this with my wife. I tool a chance. Afterwards my wife even asked me if it was as good in real life as it was in my fantasy. She was acutely aware that sometimes things play out better in our heads and we can be disappointed when we finally get a chance to fulfill them.

    I'm so grateful that she is open to trying new things. I feel like our whole world opened to new possibilities.

    I've found allowing myself to be vulnerable to be a great tool in my toolbox the last couple of weeks.

    ---------- Post added 23rd May 2016 at 08:58 PM ----------

    Please, nothing is too R rated for me... I'm pretty explicit in some of my posts. We're all adults here. I love the idea of my wife sticking things inside me, but visualizing her with a strap-on... hmmm even I'm not there yet. I just wonder how much she'll enjoy it. Wonder what the pleasure is for her? Anal is definitely out for her. She's tried it with other partners, and truthfully, I don't think I'd be in to doing that with her anyway. But there are certainly plenty of other fun things to try.

    I'm not against labels, but the problem is I don't know what to call myself right now. I'm glad you can own the word bisexual. When I first started calling myself gay, I loved owning it actually, but now I doubt if that's who I truly am.

    It's funny, I don't feel the need to come out to anybody at the moment. I'm not hiding. If I intend to keep sexual intimacy between my wife and me, what's the point?

    I hope this doesn't come across as snarky because I mean this in a very sincere way. Why is it important for you to be out as bisexual? What do you want others to do with that information? I've thought about telling my very conservative parents and sister, but I don't know what that will give me... Especially if I continue to live monogamously. If anything that will help validate for my Mormon sister that gays can really choose to marry the opposite sex and be happy. Ugh!

    I feel like everything I say and think has to be taken with a grain of salt, because my thoughts of where I am seem to change day to day.
     
  11. Adray

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    I'm typing on phone, so sorry if any typos.

    That is a great question, HWG. It's not an insignificant risk, and coming out is damn hard for anyone. Coming out when it could be seen as optional (I am married and monogamous, there is no new partner to introduce, no new relationship) adds an extra twist of WTF to the equation, too, to be honest.

    Bisexual has always been my orientation. I denied myself the chance for same-sex relationships when I was young due to fear of homophobia, fear of AIDS, fear of my Catholic family and religion. But the orientation has always been as it is. I left the Church (with a letter to the Archdiocese explaining why) ten years ago. Coming out is the next step in being true to me.

    I want the honesty in my life. I want friends to have an out bi guy in their life. I want to take part in PrideFest and volunteer at my LGBT Center. I want to own it.

    Some of these things I could do without coming out. And goddamn, coming out is scary. But I'm doing it, and my life is going to be better for.

    I'm blessed with a supportive wife, she's awesome. We're going to break some bi stereotypes, or die trying, LOL.

    Sorry this is not well written, today is a crazy travel day. Hope this helps, best wishes HWG.
     
  12. HereWeGo

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    DAY ONE HUNDRED FIFTY-ONE

    NOTE: So my plan was to do a little update of my life on the six-month anniversary of coming out to my wife. Nothing major, but I felt like doing a little check-in with the EC community. After I wrote it, I realized the figures didn’t add up correctly and I now realize it’s only been five months. I deliberated whether or not I continue to post it… but what the hell. Here it is. Maybe I’ll try again next month as well.

    ---

    Today is the five-month anniversary since I came out to my wife. In some respects, things haven’t changed a whole lot since my last post two months ago. Life has gone back to “normal”. My sexuality no longer is a daily conversation and now we’re dealing with other day to day stuff. Being out of work and getting behind in the mortgage and other bills have become a bigger concern. I’ve had a few bouts of depression which I chalk up to my financial troubles. I definitely hit some lows.

    Since I came out I’ve shared a closer intimacy with my wife than I ever thought possible. Our time in bed has been amazing and I feel like I’ve reconnected with her in a way I couldn’t have imagined. I thought when I came out that everything would be over between us… but surprisingly that didn’t happen.

    My libido has kicked into overdrive. I’m horny quite a bit. I’ve enjoyed having that part of me back. I lost it for a while because I was on anti-depressants… that and the anxiety of performing in bed while I was hiding this giant secret.

    I’ve accepted who I am. I no longer have any guilt about the fact that I was born this way. When I fantasize about guys or I see a hot dude walking down the street, I embrace it and I reassure myself that it’s okay.

    I told a couple more friends about my situation. One was the best man at my wedding. The other is a local friend I’ve known for ten years. I don’t know how he feels about it really because we were both pretty inebriated when I told him.

    Then there are the two times when I spoke to people who knew about the situation because my wife confided in them. I don’t care that they know, but it’s a little weird because my wife has been a little close to the vest as to who she’s spoken to about it. (Something I need to address). I came really close to telling my mom so that she would know how much pain I’ve been in, but my best man cautioned me against it. He said “look, as someone who just found out, you can’t un-ring that bell”. He asked if there was really any benefit in letting her know and I realized there isn’t right now. I’m glad I didn’t say anything.

    The best was that I finally got to talk to one of my wife’s and my mutual best friends. She’s about 20 years older than us and is a lesbian who raised a son as a gay woman in the 70s. My wife went to our friend right after my big reveal, but I kept my distance so that my wife had a confidant to talk to. I felt like she was the one person I could talk to about authenticity and being true to myself. It all came up during a trip to Costco, so we stood near the 409 and bleach for half an hour while I poured my story out. She’s always hoped the best for us and was happy that I’ve come to this place of being open.

    Until recently I’ve been perfectly fine with my arrangement. I put all my energy into being with my wife. It was enough for a while, but lately, I’ve become restless again. The “straight” side of me is so perfectly sated and happy, but the gay side is really starting to itch again. It started a couple weeks ago when I was out of town visiting my folks without my wife. At night I started looking at gay porn for the first time in months. I enjoy watching BDSM scenarios. But this time my perspective was different. I’ve always identified with the sub, but this time I was really focusing on how this guy who was taking all the pain was able to let himself go. There were no inhibitions. Even though he was in so much pain, he was able to laugh when it was all over with and embrace and kiss the guy who did it to him.

    My wife has been a little more “experimental” in pleasuring me, but not the to the extent in these videos, which is what I really desire. And while I enjoy my wife doing these things to me I don’t think she can be as comfortable going as far as I need… and there is something about a guy doing it to me that still really turns me on. (It also doesn’t help that the kids seem to always be around so my wife and I gotta keep things simple.)

    As soon as I got back to town my wife then had to leave for a week to take care of her sick mom. So now I was at home wanting to scratch my gay itch (which again, is hard to do when you have two kids home for summer break all the time). I did finally get some alone time. I decided to really embrace the situation. I wanted to see myself for the gay person that I am. I put a mirror up at the foot of my bed so I could see myself. I put on a jock strap and pulled out a plethora of toys. I really watched myself in the mirror. I even started sucking on a life-like dildo for a moment because I really wanted to see that gay person in the mirror. I had two reactions. First, I felt like I was watching a stranger… at least I didn’t feel like I was looking at me. Then, when I did recognize my face, I thought I looked ridiculous doing the things I was doing. (Ok, it is pretty ridiculous to suck on dick-shaped silicone). What seemed so hot in my fantasies and on the internet seemed so silly and ridiculous in real life. I didn’t feel sexy at all. I even had a moment of feeling really pervy, and started thinking, what would people say if they walked in on my like this. To be completely fair, I’ve never looked in a mirror while making love to my wife either, so maybe I’d have a similar reaction to that.

    I also watched “I Love You Phillip Morris” the other day. That movie resonated with me. The main character played by Jim Carey came out later in life. At one point he has a car accident and he has that life or death moment where he’s shocked into authenticity. As he’s being carried away on a gurney he keeps mumbling over and over: “I’m a faggot. I’m going to live every day of my life as a faggot.” I could totally see myself having some sort of breakdown moment like that.

    So here I am, feeling restless, acting out solo gay fantasies behind my wife’s back and obsessing about my sexuality very much the way I was before telling my wife. I know I can’t let this go on. I’m not intentionally avoiding these issues with my wife however. There’s really just been a lack of time. We haven’t been in the same space the last 2-3 weeks and to be honest, our other domestic issues with money have taken priority.

    I hate upsetting the apple cart again and starting the conversation all over, but I know I have to. I want to do it from a safe place though. I want my wife to know that I don’t have any intention of abandoning her. The relationship I have with her is important. Our intimacy is important. As I said, that part of me is very sated… but there is another part of me that isn’t. I need to figure out how to really work on that. I’m not looking for sex right now. I want to just hang out with other gay guys. I feel like I’m still living a completely hetero life. What’s hard for me to understand is what it means to live a non-hetero life. How is it different? What benefits do I get having platonic relationships with gay men?

    I’ve been respectful of my wife and not joined any gay groups so far because I want to rebuild the trust I had with her. I feel like I’m closer, but not quite all the way there. If it means keeping my relationship intact, I’m willing to put my gay life on hold a bit longer. When we finally have some time alone, I’ll start the conversation again. It may be a few days… or maybe a couple of weeks.

    So that’s it… no major revelation… no big actions. I feel like I’m still on a journey, but I’m taking the scenic route and looking at my options instead of taking the express way to Gaytopia. I know I’m still moving forward. My therapists all suggested baby steps, which is what I’m taking. I look back on the moment in the beginning when my wife, in a fit of anger, asked if I wanted a few months to go explore and figure it out. Inside I was screaming yes, but I said I didn’t. Now I’m glad I didn’t. That would have completely fucked our relationship. I feel if I play my cards right I can continue to have a healthy relationship with my wife, that still involves sex and intimacy. After all I truly still love her. But I hope I can appease the gay me, whatever the fuck that means.
     
  13. Nickw

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    Hey

    I will restate a couple things you and I have talked about for the benefit of the rest of the forum.

    Your wanting to be with other gay guys in a platonic way has been a really big thing for me. I cannot explain why. It may just to be around other guys that have been through the same things or a sense of camaraderie maybe. But, I think it is deeper than that. Last week I spent the entire evening with a great guy I met on a hookup site...platonic. Drank a lot of beers, told gay jokes (about us), stuff like that...it was fabulous (new word for me). I found that more rewarding than an actual hookup. I am also developing other gay friends. I cannot overstate how important this is in being gay. I think it might be sort of a non-sexual vulnerability thing.

    I hope you can somehow convince your wife of this need. When I told my story to one of the guys at the campout this weekend he offered to invite me and my wife to a gathering. This was before I told him how accepting my wife had been. He understood the need for a spouse to see one of "us" interacting with our "people". I wonder if there is some way to include your wife in some gay socializing?

    I know you are aware that your gay cannot be suppressed. But, it looks like you have the same sort of intense and lasting love with your wife that I have with mine. So, I hope that you can find a way to have both in your life. I'm betting on it.
     
  14. nerdbrain

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    HWG, thanks for continuing to post your story. I've been wondering a lot lately if I'm actually more like you and/or Nickw, and if it's actually possible to be "a gay guy who loves his wife." Sometimes I think I've made a terrible mistake by going through with my divorce; other times I am glad not to feel the anxiety I felt at being constrained within the marriage.
     
  15. Confusedfetish

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    Tough spot you're working through.....I see myself in you in many ways, especially the part about having a great wife you'd rather not lose. I know your struggle and the pain associated with it. The questions about yourself as well as the questions others will ask or ask. I'm in a very similar situation. Your strength in your struggle is a guide for me. Thank you for sharing:help::icon_sad::goodluck::kiss::kiss:

    ---------- Post added 5th Sep 2016 at 02:31 PM ----------

    You are me!!! I guess it's just extremely tough to love a woman soooo much, yet be totally aware that you are feeling gayer by each day. With each conversation you want to say more. Cover more territory. Just to find yourself feeling selfish for feeling/being gay but freer than ever to be yourself. Then again, at the same time you're worried about how your wife perceives you now and who else should know that you are gay. The guys making gay jokes, the woman who has a crush on you? Ugh! I live this nightmare!!! I'm wishing you the best.