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Having issues with my Son

Discussion in 'For Parents and Family Members of LGBT People' started by MumWithAGayKid, May 1, 2014.

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  1. MumWithAGayKid

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    Thanks for the input. I didn't get that impression from my brother or the lady he referred me to, but I'll be extremely careful going forward.
     
  2. BradThePug

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    It is their job to try to convince people to send themselves or their loved ones to these events, so I would encourage you to do lots of research on this. If you find that it is secretive, then it is most likely not a place that you want to send your son.
     
  3. Elliebean

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    I am speaking to you as a straight mother with a not straight/gay son not much older than yours.

    I understand why you are feeling as you do. You are allowed to feel you don’t want him to be gay, and wish things were different. But you need to accept they aren’t different. You can’t change it and you need to work through your feelings and come to terms with the gay son you have, not the straight one you wished you had. He doesn’t exist.

    I also understand why you may have found the over enthusiastic mother at the parent group too much. I can imagine you are not at a place right now where you feel there’s anything at all to celebrate and perhaps crave a quieter, more objective approach.

    I can also see that you do love your son or you wouldn’t be here, you wouldn’t be trying to understand. I can see why you feel some of the replies here are hostile. But I think you also need to fully understand why some reactions have been hostile, and may be that can also help you understand some of why your son is reacting like he is. I appreciate you may not intend it, but some of your words come across as judgmental and homophobic. Your son is also hearing those words, and is reacting with the same resentment as some of the posters on here. Only for him this is not an anonymous person on a forum, but his mother saying these things. You are, intentionally or not, telling him you do not accept what he is at one of the most volatile and vulnerable times of his life. You are telling him you want to change him and make him something else, which gives him the message he is not good enough for you. Not good enough to be loved.

    You can tell him you are struggling to accept what he is, you can tell him you need time, but what you need to tell him more than anything right now is that you love him and will always be there for him.

    I would be concerned about drinking, I would be concerned about online safety, I would want to know he was practicing safe sex. I would not be concerned about him being gay. I think there may be a real need for you to separate these issues. It sounds like there are genuine concerns around his behaviour you are right to want to address, but being gay is not part of the problem and should not be the focus. It’s not a behavioural problem, its not another example of him going off the rails. Conflict around his sexuality may be a contributing factor to why he is, but please try and separate out who he is from his behaviours.

    I have experienced some similar boundary issues.

    For example, my son accessed hardcore porn at what anyone would consider too young an age (11/12). There is a difference in I did not find out, he came to me about it because he was worried he was getting addicted. Not a comfortable conversation, but I spoke to him about online safety, the distorted reality often shown in porn, told him it was normal to be curious and even to find it addictive, but he was too young, gave him advice without judgement. He told me he found it initially accidently. I’m not naïve enough to believe that likely, but I certainly didn’t question his story. It gave him the armour to have the courage to speak to me and I would never have ripped that away from him. I didn’t even ask if it was gay or straight porn (because of his age I still had admin access to his computer. I did check, and yes 100% gay) I tried to respect and validate his experience and give the best advice I could. What mattered to me was his safety and his mental health, and keeping the lines of communication open.

    And I checked again a while after the conversation, and there was no porn. He’s 15 now and I only recently took the decision to hand responsibility for online monitoring over to him, and give him complete privacy. He is internet safety savvy and mature – he has had a lot of good work done in school around the same issues as well. I trust him. I trust him and I also know that if he was being upset by something he would tell me, even if on his terms.

    As for him not being old enough to know he’s gay, all I can say is try to remember what it was like growing up. I remember mooning around over hot boys when I was 9 or 10. I remember being head over heels “in love” with a boy at 12 and 13. So I knew (with hindsight) I was straight by the age of 9 or 10, and with absolute certainty by 12. Being straight you do not think about it at the time, because you are “normal”. There’s no need to identify or analyse what you are. Every one is different, but there is every chance your son has known for as long. Did you know you were straight at 14?

    About correction, I beg you not to even think about this. You cannot make your son straight any more than you could have been turned into a lesbian. We are not talking choices here – ask my son if he’s choosing to be gay? By the amount of conflict he’s going through I think there’s every chance he’d do anything to be straight. Read some stories on here, and that is a common theme. Gay men and lesbians going to the extent of marrying opposite sex partners, living a lie for many years in order to try and make themselves "normal", and it ends in nothing but misery and damage.

    Again put yourself in his place. Imagine being told at 14 that being attracted to boys was shameful and you were carted off somewhere where there were people attempting to essentially brainwash you into becoming a lesbian. Imagine if you heard of that happening to someone else’s child, you would know without hesitation the terrible, terrible damage and trauma that would cause. Please do not do this to your son. He is what he is, whatever the exact cause or combination of causes that define someone’s sexual orientation, it was a done deal the day he was born. You cannot change it any more than you can change the colour of his eyes.

    The idea of wanting to change anything about my son, let alone something as fundamental to his identity as sexuality, makes me feel ill. It feels as horrible as the idea of ripping his hair out because I don’t like the colour. I love him so, so much that I couldn’t even wish things to be different. He is this incredible unique individual just like your son. The only thing I want for him is to come through life’s struggles intact, balanced and happy. I know that being able to accept whatever his sexuality is is the only way that’s got a chance to happen.

    Neither of our sons are having a happy time right now. This may be focused on their sexuality but it’s not unusual for any 14 and 15 year old to be angry, rebellious or unhappy.

    I would be concerned about my son having sex at 14 regardless of the gender of his partner, but I would also recognise if he was determined to do it he will. As long as it was with someone his own age and he wasn’t being promiscuous, I would give advice, set boundaries, suggest waiting, but ultimately make sure he was armed with accurate knowledge about good sexual health and safe sex. And birth control if it was a girl. And I certainly wouldn’t want to know the ins and outs of what he was doing. As long as I was sure he had all the information and was comfortable with his choices, that really is none of my business.

    At 14 he can't expect 100% privacy, but he can expect some privacy, and needs it in order grow up healthily. At 14 most of what goes on in a young person's head is not usually shared with their parents and shouldn't be.

    Ultimately, you cannot be with your son 24 hrs a day, and you cannot control everything he does or stop him making mistakes. If he feels you do not accept him and continue trying to change who he is, as soon as he is old enough (and that's not far away) he is likely to walk away and shut you out of his life completely. Then you risk losing him for real, not just having to let go of what you wanted him to be.
     
  4. Absolutely fantastic advice. Your son is incredibly lucky to have you as his mother.
     
  5. PrincessEliza

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    I think most of the problem is you not fully accepting him. Not being accepted really hurts a lot, and he might be having sex to be able to get away from you because it pains him to know that you don't understand or like his lifestyle. Never, NEVER tell him not to be the girl in the relationship. This would definitely make him instantly upset. In a gay relationship, there is no girl, that's the point. Obviously, he likes guys, so don't push him towards liking girls. You not liking that he 'thinks he is gay' is the problem. A BIG problem. In that one sentence, you basically said that you don't like that he's gay and that you don't believe that he's gay. That is incredibly offensive, especially to him. He probably knows this and feels immensely uncomfortable around you. I would work on YOU, not him.
     
  6. Jethro702

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    Really great and insightful advice!
     
  7. AwesomGaytheist

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    I knew what you meant, but what you said was offensive and insulting, and even more so disgusting. Considering how you just reiterated what you said earlier, it doesn't sound like you really listened to what me and a lot of other posters had to say.

    Studies have shown that with kids and adolescents that it doesn't matter as much what you say as how you say it. You can use the exact same words with different tones and have completely different meanings.

    As long as you have safe sex, there's nothing more dangerous about anal sex than if he'd had vaginal sex with one of his girlfriends that he had before he came out.

    When you say "if he insists on being in a gay relationship" you mean to say that he can change his orientation and be straight. It's impossible. Being a straight woman yourself, if you tried changing your orientation and trying to like girls, you just couldn't. Your sexuality is ingrained in you and you have no say in the matter.

    Just because he likes to have anal sex and likes to bottom doesn't make him any less of a man and when you say he's "the more effeminate male," that is incredibly offensive and when you use fighting language like that, it's no surprise he's mad at you and won't talk to you. I'd be pretty worked up if my mom tried to tell me how I should and shouldn't have sex. That's none of your business! If he were straight, would you care what he did in the privacy of his own bedroom with his girlfriend/wife? Don't make a double standard, as it's only going to make this worse.

    Let me ask you this. If I sat you down and demanded to know how many sex partners you've had, what positions you like, what kind of intercourse you have, how you like to pleasure your man and how you like to be pleasured, what would you say? How would you feel? Because that's exactly how your son feels right now about this whole thing. You would look me in the eye and say, "That's none of your damn business," wouldn't you? Just love your son and get your mind out of the gutter and out of his bedroom. Don't we as human beings deserve to be judged by our character and integrity, not just who we have sex with? Think for a moment about the things you love about your son. Does being gay change any of that? I'm starting to tear up as I'm writing this at that thought.

    Please take a half-hour to watch this movie. It's called "Lead With Love" and it's for the parents whose children have come out as LGBT. It may just change your perspective on the whole thing. LEAD WITH LOVE FILM

    No, you're not fine based on how distraught and upset you are at the whole thing. I don't know your son and what he's going through, but you sound like you need a therapist more than he does. I'm not saying this to be judgmental. There's no shame in going to therapy and getting some help in dealing with this. They'll give you the tools you need to deal with the situation and be the loving mother he needs at this point in his life. What he's going through in his coming out is hard enough; he doesn't need a civil war with his mother on top of it. You two can both go to family therapy, with a therapist as a mediator for the dialogue that needs to happen. There are many therapists that do work with LGBT issues and also help parents of LGBT teens.

    I don't think you're a bitch. I think you're a loving mother who's hurting and is making some rash decisions without totally thinking them through. But you're in the right place to start, and I really hope that you will allow your son to continue using EC, as we're a support community and anybody who thinks this is a hookup site finds out very quickly that that's not what we're all about. It's your decision where to go from here.

    On a side note, I wasn't and am not trying to be hostile at all. I'm blunt by nature and I was floored when I first read this thread, but all emotion aside, I think you've gotten a lot of good advice.

    I'll conclude with a personal story. My boyfriend's mother had a worse reaction to her son's coming out and was very bitter about it for the next two years before finally coming around and accepting that life does throw us curveballs, and that what we expect our children to grow up to be doesn't always happen.

    A few months after my boyfriend was born, his mother was diagnosed with a medical condition whose treatment ended with her being rendered infertile. She and her husband had planned to have a large family and all of a sudden he was going to be an only child, biologically anyway. After wallowing in her misery when her then 16-year-old came out to her, it took her 2 and a half years to realize that he's the only son she's ever going to have and that you can't live your child's life for him, and that she needed to accept him and love him just the way is. Their relationship is closer now than it was before. So please, get some help and deal with this in a healthy way that's good for both your son and yourself.
     
  8. Clay

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    I would strongly suggest you don't go forward at all with that route. As Brad above pointed out, they're just trying to convince you to send him there.

    This actually makes me quite upset for your son. Some terrible things can happen in your life but your family is supposed to be there for you, they're supposed to support you. Your kids are supposed to be able to turn to you for support and love.

    You found out your son is gay and you're now honestly thinking about sending him to something that will do nothing but severely damage his mental health. The horrible, humiliating things you are seriously considering having him endure, that wont work, all because of something you want is an absolutely terrible idea. As a mother, you will irreversibly damage your relationship with your son.

    If you send him to anything like that it will make things far worse. You are going to show your son that, above all else, he can never turn to you for loving support, or trust you ever again.

    Please, do not do this. I feel that you want do this because you think it's in his best interest, but it honestly isn't. I feel that, if you go through with this and ignore my advice, you will only realise how big a mistake it was when it's far too late. If you send him there you will pass a point of no return. Your son will not turn straight, it's not possible, but your relationship will be forever ruined. The fact that you're his mother will not change anything, it will only make it worse. He is under no obligation to build a relationship with you, he could walk out that door when he's 18 and never contact you again, so it's your job to make sure you have a loving and trustworthy relationship.

    Please, do not make the mistake of sending him to any sort of conversion therapy.
     
    #48 Clay, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  9. Aldrick

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    MumWithAGayKid -

    I would strongly encourage you to read over everything Chip and Elliebean wrote. Especially Elliebean, as she's someone going through the same situation you're going through right now. In fact, if you've already read what Elliebean wrote, I'd strongly encourage you to read it again, because every word of it is essential to understanding the problems you're facing right now.

    You basically have two big problems.

    The first big problem, is the conduct of your son. This has nothing to do with him being gay, and everything to do with the fact that he's engaging in activities - potentially unsafe sex, sexual activity at a young age, breaking trust, engaging in inappropriate behavior on his mobile phone - all of these are legitimate problems and concerns. I want that to be clear, here. I don't think most people posting here are trying to condone this type of behavior.

    The issue is that you have an even bigger problem. That's how you're handling the fact that he's gay. My experiencing being gay pretty much map exactly to Elliebean's experiencing being straight. I started developing feelings for other guys around the time I started puberty, and knew for certain by the age of twelve. Pretty much everything Elliebean wrote on the matter is spot-on.

    The fact that you're struggling with him being gay is completely normal. Most parents have the same reaction as you. Had he not engaged in the types of conduct he's engaged in, it would have given you more time to process it. However, right now you're being overwhelmed. That's the reason you need to take some very large steps back from this situation and think VERY carefully before you proceed by moving forward.

    Because you're struggling with him being gay, a lot of the actions you're taking and the things that you are saying, is actively making the situation with his conduct worse. You're actively shooting yourself in the foot. Unless and until you get a handle on yourself, you're not going to be able to get a handle on him.

    Teens around his age are normally rebellious, but your actions are certainly driving that rebelliousness into overdrive. And if you head down some of the paths you are currently looking at you could damage your relationship with your son to the point that it could be beyond repair. I don't really know how to describe to you how critical or damaging your actions could be moving forward.

    The best advice I could give you, if you're not willing to attend PFLAG, is to seek out a qualified family therapist that specializes in LGBT issues and is absolutely not religiously affiliated. That way they're not coming into the situation with an agenda, and they can stick strictly to the science. By getting therapy for yourself, you'll have a non-biased and objective view point to help you work through your own feelings and issues. They'll also be able to help you navigate the difficult situation right now you have with your son.

    Allowing your son to speak to that therapist, once again - so long as they are non-religious and non-judgmental - will likely help a great deal. The therapist can help him find ways to communicate with you, and get you both on the same page so that you can mend the issues you're having right now.

    I don't have to tell you that everything your brother, his wife, and your family has told you is completely bullshit and wrong. You know that in your gut. If you follow and take their advice you could seriously damage your son in ways that are perhaps unforgivable.

    I'm not sure why you think mutilating his genitals would somehow change or reduce his sexual orientation. That's totally crazy. You can't believe everything you read on the internet, and I can assure you that if you speak to a qualified doctor they'll straight up tell you that it's totally crazy to even think it. I mean just imagine if your parents wanted to cut off your clitoris to prevent you from being straight - does that make sense to you?

    Then there is the issue with conversion therapy, which is what your suggesting with the rally. In the United States, and I'm sure in the UK too - there are places starting to ban this fake therapy through legislation due to the harm it causes those who undergo it. Do you realize the rate of suicide of people who undergo this - the long term psychological damage that can last a lifetime?

    The American Medical Association, the Pan American Health Organization, and the World Health Organization have all actively condemned these practices for years. There have even been religious institutions that have attempted to "pray the gay away" who have come out, admitted that it doesn't work, and shut down. That's why you're encountering these groups now that promote lifelong celibacy instead - because they're being forced to accept that they can't change sexual orientation.

    Here is what the Pan American Health Organization and the World Health Organization had to say a couple of years ago:

    You can read the full press release they made a couple of years ago here.

    Let me be clear here - that was a statement released by the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO) and the World Health Organization (WHO). They are the gold standard for medical understanding and consensus in the world.

    I highly advise you to seek professional advice from a qualified therapist who is known to work with LGBT issues and is non-religious - so you know they aren't coming at it with a hidden agenda. The very fact that you're considering these options tells me that you're putting yourself in a position that could have long ranging implications for your son - implications that could be permanent and perhaps unforgivable.

    I can only urge you to seek professional help, because I understand that you're overwhelmed. I understand that you're having trouble right now. That's normal and most people would struggle to deal with this in your situation. You're struggling to handle this alone, and you're turning to people who are giving you really, really, really bad advice. You need support that is non-judgmental, factual, and that isn't going to end with long lasting damage to your son.

    If you need help in finding a qualified therapist, then I'm sure that someone here - such as Chip, if you private message him - can help you find someone in your area.
     
  10. suninthesky

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    I just wanted to thank you for coming to EC and listening. I can't imagine how overwhelming it is for you right now. The way things are now won't last forever - it will get easier.

    My mom said a couple bad things when I first came out, but it is possible to rebuild.

    Maybe you should try taking your son on a walk. Just walking can give you the time to talk, or not talk. Maybe try not talking and seeing if your son will say anything. Maybe say sorry for the ignorant things you said and say that you are processing it and need time, but that no matter who he is, you will always love him. Say that your reaction was because you want nothing but the best for him and that you were afraid that being gay would make his life hard, but that you're starting to realize that not being who he is would be way harder. Say that if he were straight some of the stuff he's doing would still not be okay, that you have some stuff that you're going to need to talk about, but that right now, you just want him to know that you love him.

    Say that to him as soon as you feel it's true, and I hope that soon it will be.
     
  11. Fallingdown7

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    One last thing I want to note.

    I think you are thinking a bit too deep into his sex life/sexual interests and whether he bottoms or not, and these kind of questions can get inappropriate.

    However, I don't disagree that It's concerning for a 14-year old to be sexually active; gay or straight.

    And if your concerns about him bottoming were about STD risks, fair enough (The top still has an equal risk though). But in this case it feels more like It's a "masculinity" issue.

    Just try to think about the situation if he were straight. You would still want to know if he were sexually active so you can talk about safe sex. You would still be concerned about his sex life because of pregnancy, STDs and emotional consequences. However, if he were straight would you be asking him what positions in bed he likes to do, or how he gets off with his girlfriend in detail? No, because that would be inappropriate and embarrassing for him. And I believe these questions are what's driving him away.

    It might be better to take an approach that doesn't get so personal, and he might be more open to talk about the risks of sex.
     
  12. confuzzled82

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    Reading thru this thread, you (mumwithagaykid) remind me of the mom in the movie Latter Days. Don't send him to any of the camps that "fix" gay kids. They don't work, and they just make the problem worse. If your concerns about him being gay are because LGBT youth are at a higher risk for suicide, that's mostly because of people not supporting them being themselves/trying to change them. Just because he likes guys, doesn't mean he won't lead a normal life. I'd recommend watching the full movie, especially the last half. If you don't have time to watch the whole thing, jump to 1:12:30, picture yourself as the mom, and your son as Aaron. Things like around 1:22:20 are caused by the desperation that kids get pushed into when they get hateful messages from their loved ones pushed at them for prolonged time frames. Please, get help, and not push this type of hate on your son.

    [youtube]WKW85gNIuO0[/youtube]
     
    #52 confuzzled82, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  13. Note: I'm going to start off by saying that I am going to pick this to pieces a bit, just bare with me. By the time I'm through, you're probably not going to like me much, but hopefully you can take something from this....



    Okay, I'm going to stop here for a moment. Yes, you do have a problem with your son's sexuality or you would be "hoping" he was anything else. "Best" for whom? Best for him or best for you?

    Continue....

    Ah, there it is, yes. Yes it is selfish....but I digress...

    If he would be much happier with a girl, then he would be dating one. For you, this may be a sudden change, but it could have been festering in his mind for quite some time now. The lack of communication between you can your son could be to blame. But we'll get back to this.

    Poor communication....

    Also, he is your son correct? Therefore, there wouldn't be a "girl" in the relationship. Besides, when did it become so shameful to be a woman?

    How old is he, may I ask?

    Yes, for every restriction there is an opposite and equal re-hack. Technology is not that hard to figure out, especially when the open world of Google. I will touch more on this for some tips later on....

    You said that he is a hormonal teenager and ask if there is a way to curb his sexual impulses...well...farmers do put bands around animal's testicles. That's an option, but I'm sure you don't want to do that to your own son (spoiler: They fall off). You could ask a doctor for birth control pills. Yes, birth control pills work to curb male hormones. However, here is your down side- you're so afraid of him being the "woman" of the relationship, but BC will cause men to grow breasts in most cases. Secondly, good luck finding a respectable doctor who will prescribe BC to a teenage boy simply because his mother doesn't want him having gay sex. Be honest with yourself, would it had bothered you as much had these encounters been heterosexual?

    Yes, your biggest issue is that you don't trust him, and he obviously does not trust you or he wouldn't be lying to you. (This is where we are getting to the real advice so hang on for the ride.) Here, we go back to the lack of communication. Why is there a lack of communication? Why is there a lack of trust? The two go hand in hand, the more you communicate with someone, the more you can trust them. I know some may think it was wrong of you to go through your son's phone and stalk him online, but if you had reason to, why not? You're his parent.

    Upon further investigation of his phone you found sexual advances, even giving out his location to compromise his own safety. Of course you should be worried! Put out of your mind of why it was with men, and start asking yourself why he felt he had to do something so risky! Did you try to sit down and have a reasonable conversation with him about the danger that he just put himself in doing that?

    As for looking things up on the computer, you said yourself hormonal teenager. It would be hard to find a boy who hasn't looked at porn or some such as a teenager, it's normal curiosity. The forbidden fruit tastes the best of the whole garden. Instead of forbidding him and fighting with him over looking at porn on the computer (because he will find a way whether you permit it or not) forbid him from looking at porn on your computer. This is where the open conversation comes in.

    Talk to him openly about sex and porn. If you can be honest with yourself that you don't care about his sexuality (which seems that you are truly struggling) then please, for your son's safety, put that aside! Let him know what you gave him the condoms for- to be safe, not to have more sex! Tell him how important it is to wait and take precautions, no matter who his partner is. Explain to him how worried you are and please- do you and your son a favor and let the boy speak! Let him get off his mind every hidden detail of his life. Even if he starts off with how nasty he thinks the morning coffee you make him is- it's a start to open conversation. While discussing porn tell him to stay off your computer- if he really must do that, to use his own phone or other device, however if he gets a virus it's on his own hands and you will not be replacing the device.

    As for the whole "baby-sitting" deal you have going on, do you really think that's working? I mean, sure you have your eye on him, but if someone wants to have sex, they are going to have sex! That's why having the conversation with him is so important. Suffocating him with your strict rules is not going to stop him from rebelling, if anything, it's going to make things worse on you. Instead, couldn't you set a guideline? Come to work with you a few hours, get your homework done, go home and if I call you- you damn well better answer your phone or you're back here every evening. How about getting to know his friends better before he goes to hang out with them? Make the time to talk to them, say hi to their parents and talk about the weather and hormonal boys. In fact, insight from local parents will help you see that you are not alone in this.

    Believe me, you are not alone.

    To wrap this whole lecture up, let me just finish by saying that some family counseling might help. Especially for you accepting his sexuality. He is your son, you are his mom. It's time for the both of you to start acting like it and respecting and loving each other more.

    If there is anything else to add to this, feel free to reply here or contact me. Not only am I a parent, but I was that "hormonal monster of a teenager" once too. I know how it can be on both ends.
     
  14. 994tea2mlp7

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    Please tell your son you love him that he scared you but you are ready to sit down and figure out what is acceptable or unacceptable behavior. You should draw up a contract and sign it. Then tell him you need to know as his mother how sexually active he is how many partners ect... Strongly suggest a single boyfriend is acceptable multiple sexual partners isnt going to fly he needs to save that for his adult life. Honestly your lucky he hasn't took off living with over 18 year olds with their own apartments. Good luck to you let us know how things are going
     
  15. XTREMEZish

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    You may want to stop forcing some rules on him and at this age a child is more likely to respond with reasoning letting him make the decisions on his own. You may not be able to stop him from having sex but it would be highly more affective to make sure he has safe sex. If he does have safe sex then why is it an issue? Does age really matter that much? He is clearly old enough. As for the intoxication part, how does he get a hold of it?
     
  16. Chip

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    OK, there's a lot of heated emotions here and I'd again ask that everyone be respectful. I think this thread is extremely triggering for a lot of people because it draws on experiences we've had, or are/were afraid of having, and touches on bigotry and ignorance that most or all of us here have faced.

    Personally, I think mumwithagaykid is doing an amazing job of listening to what everyone is saying and trying her best. Please remember that she's been thrust into this entire situation with no preparation, little to no notion (other than stereotypes) of what gay people are like, a lot of fears, and, to top it off, a son that she loves very much who she sees making a bunch of bad choices and, she fears, slipping away from her.

    Her responses are the normal responses of a parent trying her best in a very difficult situation, and some of the responses here have been a bit hostile, and that isn't what her, or her son, need from this community. So I'd again ask that people stop and think and try and put ourselves into her shoes.

    Now, to mumwithagaykid:

    I think most of the important stuff has been said already.

    I do think it's important to reiterate the piece about changing sexual orientation: in addition to the governmental bodies that have condemned, it, every major psychological, psychiatric, counseling, sexological, social work, and other mental/social health services organization in the US, UK, and Great Britain have taken a strong position that there's zero evidence that reparative therapy (therapy to change sexual orientation) works. The best study out there, commissioned by the APA, reviewed every study done in the last 60 years, and found no credible studies or evidence that indicated success in changing orientation. California and New Jersey have made it illegal for anyone to attempt reparative therapy. Yet, the religious nutjobs continue to ignore all of the science and research ... keep in mind, these are the same people who believe the earth is 6,000 years old... and make claims for which they simply have no credible data to support.

    You will, without question, harm your son further if you subject him to that.

    More than anything, he needs your unconditional love. He needs to know that you'll love and accept him whether he's a bottom or a top, whether he has sex or is celibate, whether he's campy and flamey or super masculine, whether he has a masculine boyfriend or a campy one (or none at all), and whether you agree with his decisions or not.

    The biggest single cause of depression, suicide, drug use, acting out, and sexual promiscuity is shame. And the biggest single cause of shame is a feeling of judgment, not being loved, not being accepted, not being "enough" in one way or another, particularly by parents and loved ones.

    I know you love him to death. And i know you're trying to make sense of all of this, let go of your prejudices and judgments, and be the best parent you can be. I can't emphasize how important it is that he feel your unqualified, complete and total love and support, without judgment. And I know that right now, that's going to be tough. But you need to get yourself there, because he needs it, and he needs you to give it to him.

    I think that once you are able to truly get yourself to that place, to apologize for the judgment, anger, disrespect, and lack of trust -- basically, to make yourself vulnerable about your own imperfections -- he will follow in kind, and begin to open up more. He isn't being vulnerable because you haven't modeled vulnerability, and vulnerability is necessary for honesty and open communication and trust.

    Yes, there will have to be rules and restrictions. But if you approach it from a perspective of vulnerability and collaboration instead of a place of power and control, I think you will be surprised. It will take time, because you've completely eroded his sense of trust and feeling of safety, but it will come back.

    Finally, don't blame yourself. You're doing fine. You're navigating tough territory with a lot of complications and confronting your own biases and those of your family members. Give yourself permission to be imperfect, to do the best you can, and give him the same permission.
     
  17. MumWithAGayKid

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    Yes. However, he admitted that he didn't practice safe sex the first time. One of the websites he tried to visit was dedicated to practicing unsafe sex. I think it's reasonable to be worried he'll do it again. Since he insists on being the "bottom" that only worries me more. I don't want to argue with you on the masculinity aspect of it, but that's not the most worrying part to me.

    He's the one who shared it publicly on the internet. I didn't have to ask.

    Please don't imply that I don't love my son. I do.

    I talked to him about this before bed last night. It's not like we have no lines of communication open. He's just really difficult to deal with at the moment. He said he would be open to family counseling but I still need to set something up.

    I didn't "ban" him from this site. We talked about this some and he's extremely angry that I read what he said here and posted. I promised not to read his posts anymore but I'm sure he's skeptical of that. I do want him to have a support group though. I just wish he would come to me with his problems first. And as a mother, it hurts to read some of the things he said about me.

    ---------- Post added 3rd May 2014 at 01:17 PM ----------

    I've been told it's only a lecture that's a few hours long about practicing abstinence given by a priest. I don't think the goal is to cause psychological damage and it's not like I would be sending him away to some gay rehab centre.

    I'm personally on the more skeptical side of this by the way. Please don't think I'm ignoring everyone's concerns. I'm just trying to preserve decorum with my extended family. I think his grandparents in particular would be more accepting of him if he tried their suggestions and they didn't work than if he and I were both entirely dismissive of their suggestions. My brother is pretty religious and likely won't accept him regardless of what he does.

    ---------- Post added 3rd May 2014 at 01:24 PM ----------

    I don't appreciate you saying I'm going to cause my son to kill himself.
     
    #57 MumWithAGayKid, May 3, 2014
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
  18. MumWithAGayKid

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    I realize this is a touchy subject and I didn't phrase it in the best way when I referred to it like that. I know he isn't a girl. He was on the receiving end of sex with his boyfriend. It isn't shameful to be a woman if you're a woman. He isn't a woman though. I think it's effeminate to be a guy and not want to use your penis during intercourse, and hope that he reconsiders his preferences. I would be just as concerned if his older brother wanted his girlfriend to use a dong on him. Part of me worries that it's because he didn't have a lot of male role models as a child.

    Thanks for being an arse. I meant activities, etc. to keep him busy. He's already quite active in sports, but I was looking for actual feedback. Feel free to go put some bands around your own though.

    Same as above.

    No. I'm just not comfortable with the idea of him having gay sex.


    Honestly? I don't think he has forgiven me for making him admit that he liked guys. I've apologized but I think he's still angry.

    I tried to talk to him about it but he got extremely upset. He was generally extremely uncooperative when I went through his mobile. He said he wasn't planning on having sex with anyone from it but then he's lied to me a lot so who knows for sure.

    The issue is that he won't come to me with these things.

    I really don't want him watching it at all. I don't care if he masturbates, I just think it's unhealthy to watch porn since it is all fantasy. I would be just as upset if my other child were watching porn.

    Seems to be working, honestly. He's grumpy about it though.

    I tried that approach by letting his brother "watch" him and it didn't work. This wasn't the first measure. I started off being much more relaxed with the rules. It failed greatly.

    He's usually only at work with me for a short time. Where I feel bad is when I coach gymnastics some nights. He somewhat asked about training with some of the guys there but I shot that down since I didn't think it was a good idea. Perhaps I should reconsider.

    I know his friends. They are usually good kids. In this instance he lied about hanging out with his friends and went to a party instead. I know most of the parents, as well. We don't really talk about our sons though and I don't want to talk to them about how mine is gay.

    ---------- Post added 3rd May 2014 at 02:28 PM ----------

    First, it's only a circumcision; not mutilation. His GP told me last year that his foreskin is too tight and recommended he remove it if he can't retract it in the coming years. My son wanted to wait since he says he can clean under it and doesn't think it's an issue.

    Here's the article my brother sent about it. Genital Fixation & Homosexuality. It makes some good points though you may disagree.


    I planned to schedule something with the therapist centre he's already seeing for his LGBT issues and anxiety. They aren't religiously affiliated in any way so they should be objective.
     
  19. mawwhite

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    I have been watching this thread trend and like many of the commenters I have found it very upsetting to the point it has brought tears to my eyes.

    I am a 50 year old gay man in the process of divorcing. You might say my wife, daughter, and myself are collateral damage to what extreme shame can do. Mam, please take the time to google “shame”. Shame is a real physiological condition which can lead to a life a very self-destructive behavior. Gay boys/men with significant embedded and extreme shame have several outcomes:

    1. A life of alcohol and drug dependency,
    2. A compulsive need to masturbate to porn even when not aroused,
    3. Inability to make intimate human connections, therefore the person spends their youth hooking up. By the time they’re in midlife, they are alone, lonely, and isolated incapable of being in a loving beautiful relationship. Please google “lgbt lonely isolation”,
    4. They may elect to conform to the wishes of parents and society and date, even marry. This is never sustainable…again the spouses and children pay the price. The straight spouses suddenly find themselves alone, angry and lost. The gay spouse finds themselves alone, angry and lost.
    5. Approximately 30% of teen suicides are LGBT kids

    Why do I bring this all up, you son is accumulating by the day extreme shame. He is absorbing all the homophobic rhetoric he hears in the community, and he is picking up from you (unintentional as it may be). This is a very very serious matter. It’s probably already past yours and his ability to deal with yourselves. You have not mentioned a father or siblings so not sure if you are a single mom (though is may have come up as I had to stop reading all the responses as they made me to upset). At this point though you both really require a professional therapy.

    Every boy who suddenly realizes he is gay is automatically filled with some shame. From the time they are born they are immersed in a heterosexual oriented society. Suddenly they no longer fit in. Every gay man I have talked to has described that sense of personal isolation when young even when surrounded by many friends. Being gay is difficult…don’t kid yourself. As upset, angry and lost are you are, multiply by 100 for your son.

    I do not know you son personally, but I do know him. I am him at that age. Those in the EC community do not know your son personally, but they all know him for they are him. We know what he is going through. I will tell you your son is tormented. His behavior is exactly as I would expect given the lack of support he has received. It’s up to you, not him. He is a 14 year old child. Yes he should not be having sex, but I suspect that’s not the issue. It’s the gay sex!

    Please read 1 – 5 again…that is your sons future if you do not find a way to quickly accept him.
     
    #59 mawwhite, May 3, 2014
    Last edited: May 3, 2014
  20. MumWithAGayKid

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    His father and I divorced in 2001. He has a sibling. I know we need therapy. I'm planning on scheduling some family counseling for us on Monday.
     
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