God intended people to be straight

I think you can win the argument, even without being well versed in the theology of that person's religion. If their argument is that whatever god says is moral/immoral is moral/immoral, then it's pretty easy to show that that premise is flawed. Once you've done that, you've cut their argument down at the base.

Now, if you get them to admit that anything is moral or immoral if their god says so, including slavery, torture, and indiscriminate killing, then you can make it obvious to any observing 3rd parties the absurdity of their position and leave it at that. On the other hand, if you get them to admit that not everything their god condemns is immoral, then you can point out that they've rejected a premise to their own argument.

 

Note: MORALITY IS SUBJECTIVE HON.

 

If only it were true. Better and more learned people than me (people with great theological experience) have tried to "win" the argument with these blinkered individuals. The closer you get to proving the folly of their position the more hostile, belligerent and idiotic they become. That's why I said there is nothing to be gained from it.

I would rather spend time on persuading people who still have open minds and supporting those who have been wounded by conservative evangelism. We can do more good there... I think.

 

If God did nkt inted us to exist, why do we? Why would He create somethig that he doesn't like?

 

How can anyone be other than as God intended. He kinda has the remote. I'm bisexual just as he intended me to be.

Well, if you're going by the Bible, then God also intended marriage to be a matter of ownership of women by men. He also intended a number of other things that you'd consider abominations now. But to be honest, I don't think God had an opinion on how two people who love each other spend their lives...the love is the important thing.

Hmmm. Isn't God the only one with Creative power? I really think you're giving Satan *way* too much power here.

What's your comeback if people make these claims?[/QUOTE]

 

While it's true that such blinkered individuals exist, you can often get them to admit that slavery (or something else atrocious) is moral if their god says so. Once you've gotten them to admit that, then they probably would have lost any support of any 3rd party observers who aren't themselves bigoted. Once you've got to that point, you know that you can't make any headway with them, and you've probably made any open-minded 3rd parties more sympathetic to your position over theirs. That's the point at which I prefer to end the discussion.

So although the person you're talking to might be obstinate in their beliefs, making them look like a fool by getting them to admit that slavery (or something else atrocious) would be moral if their god says so could make them look really bad to someone whose mind could be influenced.

 

Assuming we are talking about conservative Christians here. I press for the biblical proof. They usually can't provide it. If they are able to find them ask them what the whole chapter says. There are also scriptures against eating shellfish, shaving your beard and getting tattoos.

If you can make it a conversation you may have more influence than if you hit em with a passionate argument.

 

God is all-powerful. If God wanted all people to be straight, then all people would be straight.

 

If I met anyone with these comments and it's the first thing they discuss when I meet them then that would be a very big red flag. If they talk about it later in our "friendship", I will also consider it a red flag but I wouldn't make such a big deal out of it. Having opinions on certain things and expressing hate through verbal abuse is different. If he/she called me "fag" then that relationship will obviously go down. If he keeps his opinions and respects my own and we don't argue whether who's right or wrong, I think it can work but I'm sure one person will feel uncomfortable. I mean, could both people really feel comfortable in the relationship when one thinks the other is "abnormal"?

I'm a very non-confrontational person so if anyone came up to me and told me those things, I wouldn't even bother and I would excuse myself. What good can I get from arguing with someone who is obviously challenged in accepting that not all of the things going on in the world can be explained by religion or the bible? Possibly, nothing.

 

As a good Christian, my response is always

"JESUS LOVES YOU. But everyone else thinks you're an asshole."

 

"I'm heterosexual, the way God intended it to be."
- I'm gay, just like your Father. Btw, tell him I found his thong.
Personally I don't even believe there was only two humans in the Garden of Eden anyways; we have too many different races for their to have only been two people.


"God intended marriage to be between a man and woman."
- Says who? Did God tell you that? No? Okay.


"God didn't make gays. They're made by Satan."
- The bible claims God made every organism living and non-living .. so yeah ..

 

This is a statement that I use quite often when confronted with religion.

If God's message is so vitally important, then why wasn't it delivered in a way for everyone to understand?

 

"Well that's you're belief and it's a pretty shitty belief too. It's totes alright to believe in a higher power, but it's totally not okay to dehumanize people in the process. The Bible isn't the 'end all be all' anyways. Keep an open mind as you form your own thoughts and opinions. Think about how you make other people feel. For once in your life try to pretend that you have at least a tiny bit of empathy in your sad, cruel heart. Don't be a mindless sheep. You have the capacity to be smarter than that."

Or something along the the lines of "Haha nah man you're wrong because life isn't real and nothing matters lmao"

 

This is my answer to most religious bigotry.

 

I don't bother arguing with people whose minds are set in stone.

If it's a sincere concern or question, I would simply say that God has not revealed it to me that He intended all people He created to be straight. Quite the opposite. He loves variety; just look at all the different types of flowers and animals He has created (and homosexuality does exist in the animal kingdom too btw).

Also, many of God's ways are a mystery to us humans. Tell the person to read Isaiah 55:8 and 9 which tells us we cannot read the mind of God.

Finally, I would say God tells us to love one another, not to judge one another.

Gay people carry the image of God, the spark of the divine, in themselves just as straight human beings do. Never doubt that LGBT people.

The best argument I've ever heard regarding God's acceptance of gays is that He never demeans a human being's dignity. Therefore, he would not ask you to give up an essential part of your being, your sexual orientation, and be inauthentic... be someone you are not.

Also, if a person follows God's commands, good fruit will be the result, not bitter fruit. The Christian Church's attitude towards and treatment of LGBT people has resulted in very rotten fruit... suicide, turning from the faith, division, deep hurt, bitterness, broken relationships, etc. The honest Christian must ask himself/herself... What is wrong with this picture? Could it be we've gotten God's teaching about homosexuality wrong?

I think the obvious answer is Yes.

 

"God doesn't make junk...except for maybe you."

J/K

I agree entirely though with what Open Arms just said. As usual, she hits it out of the park.

 

If I engage them in conversation at all, I usually ask them about other things the bible says that are no longer practiced. I normally don't discuss religion with people who say "God said" blah blah blah. The reason is they're supposing what "God" thinks according to their particular religious text, and to them every word of their text is sacred, and not to be questioned by mere lay people. Those kind of people aren't interested in a legit debate about the issue anyway. It's easier to read a religious text than to think for yourself.

The whole reason most ancient religious texts say bad things about homosexuality is it doesn't produce children. In the old days society and everything else depended on producing as many children as possible and increasing the numbers in your tribe. It's the same reason masturbation was considered a sin also. It's also why a man could have more than one wife but a woman couldn't have more than one husband. Back then everything was all about

A: women getting pregnant, and
B: mother and child being provided for in a family structure (which is why adultery was considered a sin but polygamy was not) Polygamy is perfect for producing large numbers of pregnancies, particularly if your tribe lost a lot of men in a war. There were some ancient battles where 50,000 men were killed in just a few hours.

And guess who the spiritual leaders of those tribes were back then? The same ones who just happened to write the Bible, or the Torah, or the Koran.

In the old days if you were an old man and heard voices in your head, you were a prophet and God was speaking to you. You wrote it down and it became part of a religious text that people would follow even thousands of years later. You try that nowadays and you'll either be dismissed or put in an institution and given medicine.

 

I believe in God and I believe in reincarnation and I also believe there is actual evil in this world as well. Bad energy or demons or whatever. I believe that being gay or being gay or trans or queer or any way we identify is not a mistake. I believe we are this way by design. I have lessons to learn in this lifetime and maybe being ftm trans is the pathway to learn them. I know the process of accepting this about myself is giving me a peace of mind that is not of the devil. I know that I feel closer to God, my belief in God, than I have in a long time.

 

Yes, just because people cannot counter your arguments doesn't mean they agree with you. If anything, they are more enforced in their beliefs.