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Does anyone with a shred of common sense think I’m not gay?

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by Lyman, Jul 12, 2020.

?

What do you think I am?

  1. Gay

    85.7%
  2. Extremely confused and not gay

    14.3%
  1. Lyman

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    Good news: I came out to myself as gay 3 weeks ago and I had never experienced so much inner peace.
    Bad news: I only lasted 2 weeks in nirvana.

    This week has been extremely frustrating. It’s as if all the progress I’d made had vanished — I’ve been telling myself that “this is a huge mistake” and feeling like an impostor.

    So I’m going to type out the arguments that made me say to myself “Dude, you’re obviously gay. Period.”
    I’d greatly appreciate confirmation that I’m not crazy when I say that.

    I want to thank once more all the people that contributed to my “Ew/Meh” thread, which was immensely helpful to analyse these matters. Those great 2 weeks were partially thanks to those 20 wonderful EC members.


    ♂ ♂ Men: ♂ ♂

    1. I’ve masturbated 1000 times using only my imagination. At the beginning, as a teenager, I tried to think about girls because that’s what I was supposed to do, but it was so boring that I ditched that very early. It has never happened again in at least 7 years (probably more). With boys, it’s soooo easy, quick and natural... It has nothing to do.

    2. I’ve fapped to gay porn circa 300 times. I was 17 when I started. I had bumped into straight porn several times before, but the idea of it was so disgusting that I never tried to watch it. But one day I discovered a certain subgenre of gay porn, and I started watching the “non-gay parts” because “I identified with one of the dudes”, but I couldn’t look at the “gay parts” because “that’s gay.” After a couple of times, I stopped closing my eyes during anal and oral sex scenes, and never closed them again. But my favourite part has always been the foreplay — I can’t think of anything sexier than two men showing mutual affection.

    3. I ogle men in the street, class, locker rooms... Sometimes it’s just curiosity but many times it’s wild, primary, instinctive, uncontrollable… Like in “Damn, he’s so hot!” or in “Aw, how can he be so cute?”, not being able to stop staring. I even ogle men that are just “doable” — by contrast, women have to be gorgeous for me to notice, and even then I’m bored.

    4. “I like the whole package.” Everything about the idea of being physically intimate with a man seems right. I like every inch of their anatomy and the idea of almost every sexual practice. With women, it’s “Okay, if she’s partially clothed and if she doesn’t me to touch this and that, then maybe...” Plus, vaginas are disgusting to me — they’re the gates of hell.

    5. I’m perfectly aware of what are the details of men’s physiques and mannerisms that turn me on. I could easily produce a list of 20 such things I notice.

    6. Having sex with a man is something I want to do. If I never do it, I’m sure I’m going to regret it. I even want to be a bit promiscuous in the future. “I want to act on it.”

    7. Objectively, I’d rather have a relationship with a woman. Most men are immature idiots and I seldom love their personalities... But I’ve heard dozens of very straight women say similar things.

    8. The rare times I see same-sex couples in real life, I’m elated. It’s uber cool.

    9. When I was 13, I started feeling something for a classmate — I enjoyed his company very much, looking at him, and I started to entertain the thought of kissing him on the lips. But I eventually dismissed that as “testing myself and having passed the test.” Before that age, I remember contradictory feelings for some pizza delivery boys.

    10. Aged 14, I watched a very explicit commercial with a male torso and I was super aroused. Then I thought “Oh, oh...” I have replicated that thousands of times over the years, but never with female bodies.

    11. When I was 16, I had the biggest crush I’ve ever had. There was a new boy in my class at high school and we shared many interests and loved each other’s sense of humour. Plus, he appeared to be non-straight (and that “availability” is always attractive to me), and I loved his personality and physicalities. That’s the first time I remember having a serious inner conflict. I tried to suppress it with “You only want to look like him” and so on, but eventually I only managed to let go by deliberately being a careless asshole, this way torpedoing one of the best friendships I’ve ever had. I didn’t do anything bad (I simply behaved in a disinterested fashion), but I regret it to this day because finding people like him is very rare.

    12. The next 7-8 years I studied a lot (too much) and I barely had social life. So maybe that explains that I didn’t crush on anyone during those times, neither boys nor girls. My point is that you need to be a bit “bored” to have a crush and it also requires meeting new people. Another factor is that the experience of my 16-year-old crush made enter a period of very strong denial.

    13. In late 2019 I met a boy on whom I crushed very intensely. And I hated that because he’s objectively a very bad person and he has several addictions and other issues. Plus, he’s straight, although he belongs to the well-documented species Straightus touchyfeelyus. I tried to let go as much as I could, but it was no use — I had fallen for him so much that I could only get rid of constantly thinking about him when lockdown started and, for the first time in months, I could avoid seeing him twice a week. That crush made me feel so helpless: “I don’t want to fall for him, that’s trouble”, yet I did so because “He’s soooo cute.”


    ♀ ♀ Women: ♀ ♀

    1. I can recognise attractive women, but I only think they’re pretty when they have clothes on. I have no interest in ever seeing or imagining them naked. If I never see a naked woman again until the day I die, I’m fine.

    2. Thinking about women while masturbating (or fantasising about them) is literally impossible, like... I don’t even know where to begin. And, as I said, imagining them naked is a total no-go. As a teenager, I did think about women a few times, but it was just static images of a certain supermodel in lingerie, with zero storyline. Well, back then there were times when I just looked at the wall of my room while doing it and that doesn’t make me “wall-sexual”, I guess.

    3. I’ve tried to “test myself” and masturbate to straight porn 50+ times. I “failed” consistently: when I wasn’t up for it, I didn’t want to watch porn; and when I was horny, I went autopilot to gay stuff and said “I’ll do the test next time.” I “succeeded” 3 times, all of them requiring too much effort. After the last one —which was a long time ago—, I concluded that I don’t want to do that to myself anymore because it feels really bad. I’m not watching porn featuring vaginas ever again.

    4. I’ve never ogled women in my life. As a teenager, I was very proud of myself for “respecting women,” but I respect men and I ogle them... Yes, I look at women, but the “spark” is missing. Moreover, I notice them way less often and, when I do, it’s a super boring version of my reaction to men.

    5. Each and every time I’m in a group of men and they start talking about “hot chicks” I literally have no idea of what they’re talking about.

    6. “I don’t have a type”, when it comes to women. I can’t name a single physical characteristic I’m attracted to.

    7. Years ago someone told me: “Many girls hate having sex.” And I thought: “Oh, God, I’d love to date and marry one of those!” To this day, I still can think of girls I’d love to share my life with, but only as long as sex wasn’t part of the equation. The strangest part is that I find that far easier than imagining marrying a man (maybe because the lack of role models?).

    8. Having sex with a woman is something I could do. But I’m fine with never doing it, or with doing it as little as possible. Over the years, I’ve rejected all the opportunities I’ve had without giving it a second thought.

    9. There are two girls I’ve been “attracted” to, and it was really confusing. Both are pretty, smart, share a couple of my strangest interests, and I like their personalities a lot. I love spending my time with both of them or just texting or phoning them, especially with one of them. And it’s weird because I barely know her, compared with people that are actually my friends. Sometimes I even think how great it would be marrying her and spending the rest of my life with her. But the thing is... There’s nothing physical there — I can’t even picture myself kissing her or holding hands, let alone having sex, with those “things” females have. What am I supposed to do with those things? So... This bond is just in the realm of friendship, right? The worst part is that we’ve been talking a lot recently and that makes me think about her too often, increasing my confusion.

    10. I’m scared of coming out as gay because, if that girl discovered it, I would have no chances of a relation with her and I like her so much... But this sounds like one of the preposterous “brilliant plans” of the denial stage. I mean, even if I’m sincere with her and she wants to embark on a sexless existence, that appears to be the kind of situation that tends to blow up in one’s face after a number of years and thus cause the perfect shitstorm, isn’t it?

    11. I’ve never had anything that qualifies as a crush for a girl. What I described above has nothing physical and that’s, by far, the most interested I’ve ever been in any woman.

    12. When I “like” a girl, I’m under control of my feelings for the most part, as in “She ticks these boxes, so she’s quite an eligible bachelorette.” But, if you can control it, it’s not love/lust, is it? Isn’t love/lust about behaving stupidly? With my 16-year-old and my 24-year-old crushes, I did behave stupidly and felt super nervous when talking or being next to those boys, but not with the girls above.


    I know this post is insanely long, but my gut tells me that it’s 101 % clear that I’m gay and that considering bi, blah-romantic homosexual and so forth as possibilities at this point would only be “making it harder than it needs to be.”

    I’ll greatly appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks heaps in advance to whoever dares to read it all! <3

    P. S.: I hope this is my last thread asking for help in the “Sexual orientation” section. That would be a good sign!
     
  2. LostInDaydreams

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    Only you can know and that seems fairly clear, but only you can know.

    When I questioned my sexuality and came to the conclusion that I’m gay, it took a while for that to stick. One day I was sure, the next I had doubts, then one week I was sure, then the next I had doubts, then it was several weeks and then months. So from my experience, this doesn’t seem unusual, but I couldn’t say how common it was.
     
    #2 LostInDaydreams, Jul 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  3. Chip

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    I hear absolutely nothing in what you've described about women that would remotely indicate any meaningful attraction to women.

    I hear a ton of information in what you've described about men that indicates strong same-sex attraction.

    Not much real wiggle room there.
     
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  4. case121

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    Whatever you are today or next week, i support you my friend!:wink:
    Hugs, case
     
  5. mellissa

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    Wait until you fall in love I guess.
     
  6. Lyman

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    Thank you very much to all the respondents and pollees! Honestly, I don’t think any online community can be greater than this one. <3

    So basically these past 6 days I’ve been out to myself again. It was really helpful to organise my history for the initial post and to receive confirmation from people that clearly know a lot about sexuality. Be sure that the time you devoted to reading and replying was a good investment in terms of “effective altruism.”

    Although I’ve been okay with being gay 99 % of this week, I can’t say I’m super proud or that I’m ready to “enjoy life.” I still have a long way to go, but fortunately it’s now shorter than when I joined EC 2+ months ago.

    Yes, 101 % means that I’m fairly convinced... And, well, that I’m terrible with maths.

    Thanks for sharing your experience with this. The EC resources pages (and some other things I’ve read) point to something similar:

    Words can’t express how great this reply is. This week, each time I’ve started having doubts, I came here and read it, as well as some passages of my original post. Now I don’t need to do so anymore because I know it by heart.

    Hey, Case. I’m glad to see you again. Thanks for your support! I hope you’re doing well. Virtual hugs for you too.



    Okay, so this is only “one small step for a man” — I’m editing my profile so that it says Gay instead of Questioning. It’s actually “one giant leap” because it’s really scary, but no matter how much awkawardness I feel, it’s undeniable that I’m attracted to men evvvvry day, and never to women.
     
    #6 Lyman, Jul 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2020
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  7. LostInDaydreams

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    I felt really nervous about changing my orientation on here too. Well done. :slight_smile:
     
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  8. Lyman

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    Ugh, I know, I know. My past few hours were: feel super proud of my courage, freak out, then freak out even more and be on the verge of changing it back, remember that the word “gay” only describes a part of myself I'm okay with, and finally be cool with it. But I wouldn't be surprised if more of this happens in the short term.

    Again, thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one that went through this. Feeling validated is wonderful. Much appreciated, LostInDayDreams. ^^
     
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  9. Lyman

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    P. S.: I’ve been experiencing kind of a build-up to “do something,” which is similar to the feelings that people describe when they say why they started coming out. It also reminds me of that unbearable sensation that made me start posting here...

    Coming out, homosocialisation and so on are uncharted territory for me — I haven’t read that much about it and I don’t know what to expect. So, quoting Bernie Sanders, “I am once again asking for your [...] support.” Sorry if I’m bombarding you with threads. But, hey if I start having people to talk to, you’ll have to put up with my insanely long posts less often. It’s a win-win deal!

    Let’s start moving forward: https://forum.emptyclosets.com/index.php?threads/the-classic-%E2%80%9Ci%E2%80%99m-gay-now-what-%E2%80%9D-i-have-a-few-ideas-but-i-suspect-some-are-terrible.484799
     
  10. LostInDaydreams

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    Yes, I know that feeling. :slight_smile:

    Everyone goes about it differently and acceptance comes with time. Some people prefer to tell close friends and/or family first. Other people prefer to start with more distant friends and acquaintances, as it feels like there’s less pressure. Others join LBTB+ groups and meet people there before they tell anyone they already know.

    There’s no one right way, so do what feels right to you.
     
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  11. Lyman

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    That sounds like great advice, LostInDayDreams. Once again, thank you very much. I'll come out on my own way, as it's a deeply personal thing.

    The thing is that my emotional rollercoaster is accelerating tremendously. Whenever I consider the prospect of coming out to the two people I'm considering, I'm either super scared or super happy, with changes every few hours.

    Am I losing my marbles? Should I wait to be more emotionally stable before I do anything? Or that will only happen after I come out?
     
    #11 Lyman, Jul 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
  12. Chip

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    I don't hear a lot of instability. I hear the normal anxiety and adjustment of your schema of yourself pretty fundamentally changing. So I think, unless other things are going on that you haven't talked about, that you can start taking steps (in whatever way that looks like for you.) There's no time table and no need to rush, just do what feels right.
     
  13. Lyman

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    Thanks for devoting time to me again, Chip.

    Psychologically, I don't have anything else going on apart from what I've already discussed in EC:
    I've always been extremely happy and mentally balanced. My first 25 years of existence were great. These past few months haven't been so merry because:
    1. Half of the friends I had here moved away in 2019, and the other half disappeared more recently because corona made their reasons for living here vanish. I'm trying to fix that, but I don't have lots of free time at the moment. I haven't talked face-to-face to literally nobody but my parents since May, which is a nightmare.
    2. I spend lots of hours per day with my parents, both of which have clear psychological issues (because of being under a certain kind of medication and having had a recent near-death experience) that went way worse due to the strict lockdown they did, with TV cable news on 24/7 (despite warning them that it was a terrible idea). They are behaving in a completely childish and unreasonable way, and it's extremely annoying. No matter how much I try to understand the reasons why they yell horrible things at me and at each other, it's hard to endure it continuously for months. Plus, they're both control freaks.
    3. Questioning per se, combined with all the (in)direct effects of the coronalypse on my psyche (I'm sure I'm unaware of most of them).
    4. I'm starting to reconsider a career choice I made a year ago, so that I can devote my life to do something more useful for humankind. Right now I feel I'm wasting my abilities and time, by not using them to alleviate human suffering. But it's not the first time I've considered or made a risky career move, so I don't think this process is going to take a huge toll on me.
    Well, I have to confess that during lockdown it came a point in which I realised that I was starting to think about my sexuality too much and too often. It didn't last for a long time and I knew it was the lack of distractions, but I had to force myself to think about it max 4 times per week because I feared it could become obsessive (although it was very far away from that).

    That's pretty much all the shit that has hit my fan so far. But even considering those First-World problems, my life is mostly great and I'm pretty sure that my mental health is generally okay. If I manage to move out from my parents' house and/or find a few nice people to spend time with, I'll be extremely happy again really soon.

    It's good to hear that. I was concerned about the whole emotional rollercoaster thing because I literally never feel nervous and I rarely have so much trouble when it comes to decide whether or not to do anything. But, hey, if this is the “expected behaviour” while loading my gay software, I won't report it as a bug.

    On the one hand, a part of me wants to wait because it's scary... But, on the other hand, I don't see any good reason to believe that it will be less scary in September. I once met a very famous scientist who told me his favourite strategy to deal with fear, which was to stop and think “what's the worst possible outcome.” In my case, I think my greatest fear is currently along the lines of “What if I'm not gay after all and I just embarrass myself with all this?”, which objectively is ridiculous because now I'm sure that men drive me crazy and that I don't want to have anything to do with female anatomy. Yet that question comes to my mind from time to time. :/