Do You Feel Pride Parades Hurt Us?

You'd think the sane people would already be on our side. The problem is that most people are fairly clueless about us, and this attitude of "if they were smart they'd be on our side already" isn't conductive to getting more support. Most people just aren't informed about us; why are we making things more easy to backfire against us? Bad idea, I say.

Besides, those lines in the Bible that could be construed as being against homosexuality are a) ambiguous and b) from the Old Testament, which Christians don't even follow (unless I missed a few "wham lines" that were in the New Testament, that is).

 

Unfortunately, I assure you this is not the case. My parents are not Bible-thumping zealots nor do they have an IQ level on par with a walnut, but they do hold a few erroneous beliefs about gay people. And I can't entirely blame them for it.

 

I feel like my point was misunderstood intentionally, and I find this frustrating, especially since I'm one of these "respectable" Pride-goers.

My point was certainly not to deny that the dress of people affects our perception. Rather, my point was to suggest, given the cascade of recent progress in the legal systems of various American states, that inappropriate dress at Pride seems to have a negligible or at least difficult to measure effect on progress. There have been inappropriate displays in almost every state Pride is held in, yet marriage equality has been realized a few of those states. Similarly, inappropriate displays have likely been made in Canadian cities before Re Same-Sex Marriage and C-38, yet marriage equality is a reality throughout Canada, even surviving an attempt by a 2006 Conservative minority government to roll it back.

The public, in other words, seems to be much more thoughtful than either of you give them credit for.

 

Oh yeah, definitely; like, you mean those gaypride things where everyone dresses hella provacative and almost nude?

Yeah, I think it pisses people off. It's like a bag of doritos; too bold.

It's kind of like mardigras but with gays. Lol.

I honestly think that those who don't already accept gays really fucking hate them for the parades/mardigras-status parties.

But it's all harmless self-expression really; a giant pot of diversity. It's beautiful really, I think.

It does affect the overall image of gays but I don't see why it should. Logically, a group of people and what they do shouldn't reflect/affect the rest of us amirite?

But simple parades? No, not really... Nothing wrong with a political statement or a pride-parade. If it does affect the image of LGBT people than there's something wrong with the perception of the individual perceiving....

IMO.

 

Are you sure their perspectives wouldn't be close to the exact same if parades never existed, or at least were severely limited today? Personally, no matter how hard I try, I simply cannot find it in myself to believe the notion that there'd be any less hate to make a difference if the aforementioned was indeed reality. It'd simply just be replaced by something else.

 

What a group "advertises" the most visibly and loudly will become the image the viewing world generalizes about them.

Case in point: Why do you think that people in a great many countries think that Americans look & live like Baywatch?

(And yes, they do.)

 

I wasn't singling you out in my post. I was speaking in generalities. There are clearly LGBT people who are talking about something they know absolutely nothing about. Anyone who thinks that Pride is as it's portrayed in the media has clearly never been to Pride. Are such people as portrayed there? Sure. But they're a tiny minority when compared to everyone else.

If you go by how the media portrays Pride, you'd think we're having orgies in the streets, while thousands of drag queens do lines of coke on the sidewalk.

I have no idea what you're talking about. How am I ignoring those things when this thread has nothing to do with these things, until you've just now brought them up? That's ridiculous.

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I want to be absolutely clear about something. Straight people aren't offended by some old man in assless chaps. They're offended because he's gay. His presence reminded them that gay people exist, and they find a way to justify their bigotry by pointing out the most noticeable thing about him.

Let's also not pretend that there are a crap ton of LGBT people who have internalized bigotry as well. They see that same old man in assless chaps, or some super butch lesbian, and they cringe. Their immediate thought: "Oh my god! I hope no one thinks I'm like that!"

How many straight people walk around, notice another straight person doing something odd, and think similar thoughts to themselves? "Oh my goodness. I hope the gays don't think we're all like this!" Answer: Zero.

If you ever encounter a straight person who has an issue with you because of what someone else is wearing or doing, then clearly you've encountered a straight person with a problem. That problem has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the fact that they're a bigot, who is apparently too stupid to differentiate between someone else and you. There is absolutely no reason any LGBT person should take ownership of that straight persons feelings or opinions. Let them own it. It's theirs. Let them sort it out. Meanwhile, go live your life.

If you live your life trying to make straight people comfortable, then you'll never be happy. You will always find straight people who are offended by your very existence, no matter how they try and dress it up.

The reality is every time that old man in assless chaps or that super butch lesbian shows up, their very presence furthers equality. How? It normalizes us in the straight world. Everything that is complained about happens every day in full view in the straight world. Every single day. Yet, it's invisible. Why? Because it's normalized.

Every time assless chaps man and super butch lesbian show up, they're normalizing their existence. They make it easier for those of us who can fit in - to fit in and to be accepted. They also make it easier for themselves to be accepted, because every time they be themselves the shock value starts to wear off. Eventually, it ceases to be interesting, and eventually - like with straight conduct and behavior - it ceases to be noteworthy.

That's how you know we've won.

 

@Aldrick:

Do you really think that straight people are more offended by the fact that that man is gay than by the fact that he's wearing assless chaps? C'mon!!

Another thing: I think reasonable people see a difference between someone's gender presentation (butch, etc.) and assless chaps wearing.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Decency vs. mere expression of identity.

 

I've seen straight people who complain about pride laugh their heads off at gross things like straight guys flashing/mooning people (especially flashing women, though that's another topic), and even sexual harassment. It's not about "dencency" (who has the right to impose that, anyway?), it's about controlling behaviours they're not comfortable with.

 

Well...y'know, unless he/she was fighting for nudist's rights. xD

 

I was going to simply say "nope", but this is quite a good explanation^^^

 

Actually, being fully nude doesn't lessen your right to be respected. At all. And those examples were by far worse than pride parades, mostly because of the attitudes behind it.

 

I see what you're saying. They can have Carnival in Rio and Mardi Gras in NOLA but, with all the flesh and all the carousing, it wouldn't be my thing, either. I certainly don't judge someone for partaking or wanting to attend. I've also see pictures of what goes on at some college spring break events by the hotel pool when it's gotten out of hand. I'm not offended by sex and nudity. That sort of goes with the posts I make and descriptions of who I saw that was hot. (We just need to move the situation behind closed doors!) I just wish it wasn't so visible for everyone and anyone, because everyone and anyone doesn't want to see it. Let's add the Bay to Breakers run to the list while we're at it.

 

And sluttiness isn't a concept devised to keep people in their "place" and to obey social rules that don't benefit them? Give me a break, and stop blaming people for other people's harmful actions. You mean you can't respect them. That doesn't mean they don't respect themselves, so please don't blame them for your own judgements.

 

I get that...

But the whole point of my criticism is this: do you really think that reasonable people are incapable of viewing transgender people as freaks? Do they become "unreasonable" people at the point they consider trans* individuals as freaks? Or if they are still reasonable people despite having such a belief, what is it about gender non-conforming expression that should be protected at Pride?

Remember, the worry about the way people are dressing is how "reasonable" people will perceive us and how that will affect the progress of queer rights. That is in fact, the ONLY element of this worry. So, since we're suggesting that only respectable people should go to Pride, and it's still possible that appropriately dressed trans* individuals are nevertheless bound to be perceived as inapproprate by reasonable people, what exactly is it that exempts trans* individuals from this worry, in a way that makes them substantially different from people who go to Pride in assless chaps?

I would say the answer is nothing, which is why the worry is so dangerous, and I will always be a vigorous opponent of any assimilationist liberal position.

While I wouldn't go to Pride in assless chaps myself, I still think the worry is unfair, simplistic, narrow-minded, and harmful.

 

i could agree to that sense. if you want a sense of respect, people have to understand that Respect is earned, not given.
even if i was to go to pride parade as a "straight" person and i see guys/girls that are close to what we call "slutty"-dressing, i would be pretty uncomfortable. that just tells me that you're a sexual driven person, not a person that wants to fight for equal rights. from their perspective, it comes across as the wrong message. we don't really see it as much because we're either used to it or understand what the pride parade is about.