... But This Isn't Going Well

I understand what your saying. And what your mom said, though I don’t agree with it. There’s plenty of things my mother kept from my dad (stepdad) and bio dad to keep peace in the family. Things that were big deals but she let it work out before it was brought up and I think most moms are like that. So if she can keep my step brother being arrested and her bailing him out of jail secret for an extended period of time and dealing with that or my sexual abuse stuff.... she could keep this guarded too. I’m a person who believes you should be fair across the board. So if you share everything then share everything, but if your going to keep things private to protect a kid or the other parent (as in the case of my abuse) then respect me enough to let me come out in my time. Don’t tell me telling my grandmother will kill her only then to tell me one night you’ve told her! When I came out to my sister and brother. I told them to tell their spouse because I didn’t want them to have a secret from their spouse but please ask for it to go no further. As for the ex wife, seeking advice from a close friend or a therapist would be one thing. But when she refused therapy and the close friend she chose didn’t agree with her on me being a heartless bastard... she shared with a large group of people for it to spread. I’m fact when I found that out my great grandmother was dying and I hadn’t told my bio dad and his family because what was happening. Well I had no choice I knew it was out and gonna get to them quick. So I went over and came out during that horrible time. The next weekend my stepmom and siblings were a few towns over getting clothes for the funeral when they were stopped at the mom and asked did they know I was gay and asked for a divorce. It’d been 10 days since my ex shared it with everyone and they were and hour and a half out of town. Saying something for random people to hear, or pulling your kids, siblings, etc. into relationship issues to control or hurt someone isn’t cool.

I do agree think she didn’t sign up to be in a mixed orientation marriage and that’s kinda been hit on. If they can’t find a happy ground where they both feel they are comfortable and can have their needs meet then I don’t know how they can move forward... but I would never use information someone gave me to hurt them. If it was bothering me, and I didn’t have someone I could confide in to discuss it with, I would definitely be in therapy to try find ways to deal. Because at the end of the day, I know what it’s like for people to not give a damn about what your going/been through. To use it to hurt you and shame you. I’d never want to make someone else feel that way.

 

@brainwashed I agree with @Nickw I try and be very careful about generalizations though I fail. That’s why I often try and share personal things, like you did about your mom. I mean most of my friends have always been females. And honestly I’ve found a lack of ability to confide in males due to them passing information along as much as I find in my female friends. It’s hard at times because, if I’m honest, right now there’s one person I think I could tell almost anything to in my day to day life... but even then I’m a bit concerned. But I trust her more than anyone (outside of you guys of course).

@Nickw I think you and your wife are so lucky. I mean I remember reading your stuff way back and all but you two really love each other and are making it work. It’s kinda goals honestly... but you know with a dude haha. My issue is less than it being about my ex doing it than friend. She was my best friend and knew sooooo much. And used stuff to hurt me that she found out when we were in a good space. I have an issue with that no matter who you are. I think it shows who are as a person that you’d take information you got from your best friend and if there’s a falling out you spread it all around knowing how bad it hurt them and how bad it’s gonna hurt them. That’s a person I could never trust...

My original comment was harsh and bordered on judgmental. I hate that and I wish I could have found a better way to say what I said... I stand by the points and the feelings completely. I think it’s not good to bring the kids in that way (I’m saying this as a person who saw a parent do that to a friend), I think it’s crazy that I thought it was just ok to be outed how I was, I think she’s acting out in anger and I hope she sees that and corrects it. I do wish my delivery was a bit better and softer though.

 

To add to the sharing of the "gay disclosure". This is so individual too. I still believe that the coming out process needs to be at the discretion of the person coming out. Although, I do agree that asking one to keep a secret from a spouse or confidant is asking a lot. My approach is more to just say "I need you to keep this between the two of us for a little bit of time while I work up to it". That's a compromise and I am big on those.

To illustrate. My brother came out to my mom (who BTW, is the poster mom for gay parents) as bisexual. She told all the rest of the family. My brother didn't get the chance to do it on his terms. As a result, he was estranged from the family for a number of years. What finally worked was that each of us siblings went to him and asked him to tell his story. We're all good now.

A spouse saying. "I need some support and need to discuss this with "x" How do you feel about that" and "I'm telling everyone How you hurt me" are a lot different.

 

This is not a gay thing. This need that some spouses have to always need their partner to pay attention to them.

My wife did this a bit. She worked so hard at her job taking care of other people that when she was off she just wanted to be taken care of. So for years our relationship was me taking care of her. I remember even once walking home a mile from the hospital after a surgery because my wife couldn't be away from a patient.

We fall into this trap and create the codependency. So, we have ourselves to blame.

My wife is learning. She sees me happier when I am with my friends now and the time I devote to her is better. We are mending this issue rapidly.

Sevn, I wonder how much of this codependency is not even related to your sexuality?

 

This! I didn’t think I deserved this because of my situation and I wish someone had told me that I still did. I wish someone said that it’s still mine and I didn’t have to feel so powerless in the process. Not that it would have stopped it, but it would have been nice to feel like it was what I deserved... instead of think the whole time I was getting what I earned. I just felt like it was my punishment! The price I had to pay to be me... keep my head down, mouth closed and let them use my sexuality and outing me how they did as a way to belittle and shame me publicly like some monster because I came out late while married.

It’s weird because the first person my ex told this is how it played out. But when that friend didn’t hate me or talk bad about, she wasn’t happy. That friend said (after my ex vented for a few days) I was a good guy and she hated we were going through this. My ex didn’t like that. The friend even reached out to me to tell me she was happy I was honest and she was gonna do everything she could for my ex. She knew we both would be happy and deserved that. I’ll always be grateful to that person.

 

@I'mStillStanding

I was on this forum when you came out. I was coming to terms with it myself. I wish I had known enough to say that at the time as we were communicating a lot back in the day.

But, it was an evolution for me in understanding. I'm not sure until you are on the other side that you know this. How awful it is to have that taken from you. Outing someone can be a terrible thing to do.

I have a young friend who I spent some time with a year or so back. Had a rock climbing FWB thing. He was in the closet. He was outed to his family and friends via nasty messages from a crazy dude he got involved with a couple months back. He's sick with angst. His life is spinning out of control right now as he tries to get in front of it.

I know you still suffer from this episode. But, you are moving on and I am constantly amazed at the wisdom and empathy you have developed!

 

@SevnButton I had support here at EC, but in my life almost everyone was kinda in limbo I guess. They didn’t want to be too supportive because they didn’t like what my ex was going through, and they didn’t want to acknowledge what she was doing either. I really didn’t realize how what happened when I came out and how I was treated affected me till the last year or so. I really do hope you find peace in your situation very soon

@Nickw yea we did talk a lot but you’re right there’s a lot you don’t realize when you’re going through it. It’s funny you say your evolution, because I feel the same way. I’m still learning and growing. I mean even my views on relationships have changed drastically.

That’s is horrible, what your friend is being out through. It’s never acceptable to out someone, and that’s like a double standard if you are part of the community. For a gay guy to out another guy he’s been with intentionally as pay back... I think that’s possible one of the most vile things you can do. I have no idea what your friend could do... I wish I did... or at least have something to say of use!

What happened three years ago, I’m shocked at how much it did affect me... does affect me. I’ve got a lot of work to do, but I can say I feel very confident I’m on the path to healing a lot of old wounds thanks for the kind words.

 

Yes I to am driven by wounds ( this is why this thread is so good) during age period 14-16. My mom hurt me and hurt me bad. These wounds translates into my general predigests against women - you can see these predigests play out here in comments on this thread. The reader may find in interesting that three of my best support friends are three women who all know each other. There're working me over in a good way.

Later

 

A word of caution. My brothers wife (now ex) was "messed up" and she too had attachment, abandonment issues. A red flag SevnButton, her using the kids to get back at you. My brothers wife did the same damn thing and now that they are all grown up the "kids" hate their dad. My brothers wife weaponized the kids and that is what you have to look out for. Does your wife show a continuous pattern of doing this? This is a metric.

My brothers wife pretty much treated me like shit. My girlfriend at the time said, ~"oh she's getting back at your brother through you." I replied holly fuck. So my brothers wife weaponized me against him. Wow. (this to gave me an unfavorable opinion about women)

The entire experience pretty much destroyed my brother. His despair turned to anger.

Closing. Does a person show a genuine interest in improving themselves?

 

Hi SevnButton,
Is it that nervous excitement that something from deep down inside is finally going to be out in the light and fresh air? I get this vibe/nervous feeling, like when I interviewed counselors, and felt nervous like that in a good way... like “wow, this is going to be scary... but could be scary great!” Then the song on the radio was my teenage crushes’ favorite from 1978 as I left the parking lot of one of the counselors (so that, combined with him taking my insurance, was a major sign I needed to start with him asap). I still get that feeling sometimes when I’m in the library of our LGBTQ center... so many books, carefully collected to help explain everything LGBTQ. No. Going. Back.

I’m not much use for advice either, but there are some things which sound similar so I’ll share in the hope it helps. You say your wife doesn’t want you online or in situations where she is excluded. And wants to control your attractions. Is that because she feels inadequate or unworthy of love and commitment? Or is it that everything was just fine until this happened (except now everything is being brought up)? Lots of mixed messages. People we love had real lives and losses before we met them, wives included. So, my wife thinks something was at fault for my bisexuality. If only I hadn’t gone to the religious class on sexuality education, then this wouldn’t have happened. Or maybe she’s to blame. Or I lied to her. Ugh. She loves and accepts me... but she is also very thrown by this (less so now than months ago). I just keep reminding her I love her, I want to be with her, ... all the things I sometimes forget to say, I try to remember saying, because my love is real but she just can’t see inside me she has to hear it. Maybe that’s important for you two as well.

The stuff about “all” problems relating back to your sexual orientation. So... maybe some small part is for those of us coming to realize this orientation. I know for myself I was irritable before going to a counselor and figuring things out. Irritable does not come across as loving and connected. I needed support and couldn’t express what I needed, which means my body language probably looked like I was hurting but prickly at the same time. I have no idea if that is something of the vibe you are giving off around your house... your sexual orientation isn’t the issue in that case, it is how you are handling it and how you act out around the people you love, your family. (And then that triggers their own insecurities and starts their own confusion).

Please don’t give up on your journey. Don’t give in to her unrealistic demand that you shut down some part of you, or wall yourself off from healthy connections. Help her feel comfortable stretching out of her fears and insecurities instead.

Maybe the above is to much words, directives, and my own stuff. If any of it is useful, take it. If it doesn’t feel right, hey, you’ll be fine telling me it isn’t right for you or just politely ignoring it.

In any case, I feel for you... both the excitement, and for the tough situation you’re dealing with in your family life.

 

@SevnButton

I really could not agree more with what @DecentOne posted.

One thing that I was thinking has to do with some of your wife's demands. At least the way you presented them. It appears that she wants you to just shut down your same sex desires. Turn them off and pay attention to her? Is that an accurate assessment? Of course you won't be able to do that.

These demands set you up for failure. So, ultimately, this is not a good faith conversation. I suspect your wife does understand this. So, I would question why she needs this of you and what value it brings to her? My first thought is "does she want to work at this marriage at all?"

I do bristle a bit when husbands come out as gay and their sexuality gets blamed for the deficiencies and problems in the marriage. And, often, we take the blame for that. But, there are, likely, lots of other issues in any marriage that cause some clashes and problems. It's a cop out to blame it on your spouse's sexuality and not own them and doesn't really help either of you.

 

My brother tried so hard to make things work with his family. But his wife kept throwing angry fits and other negative behavior. Then she turned (my theory) the kids against him which made him angrier. With his anger she was justified right? It's the law of diminishing return.

Anger destroyed him. Period.