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... But This Isn't Going Well

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by SevnButton, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. SevnButton

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    So, it seems my gay meet-up was harder for my wife than I anticipated. When I got home last night she rejected my efforts to caress and attend to her. Today in marriage counseling she raged at me, "I hate you! I hate you! I hate you!". She really does not seem well, and she's frighteningly unwilling to even try to understand. She said I have to tell the kids because she's not willing to cover for me anymore

    Right now it seems my choices are:
    1) go back into deep closet
    2) figure out how to nurture the gay in my soul secretly
    or
    3) give up and end the marriage.

    I'm looking for a better alternative.

    Last week before the meet up, but after I had told her about it, she outed me to our neighbor by ranting at me while we were walking our dog.

    I'll try to connect with her this evening and say I'm sorry because I did not realize this would be so difficult for her.

    I would welcome your suggestions.

    Hugs-
    =Sevn
     
  2. Nickw

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    Option 1. may be the kiss of death of your marriage. I tried to NOT be gay for SO long that it nearly destroyed my marriage. A lot of us get to the point where we become so angry at everyone for not allowing us to be who we are. Including our wives. I was so angry with her. Even though, in my case, she didn't know. My wife and I have one of those marriages where we become examples at weddings. I'm not sure there is another couple I've met who are as compatible. Yet, this feeling of resentment became unshakable.

    Option 2. Once you start down this road there is no easy way to go back. Your wife will figure it out anyway.

    Option 3. Gulp. Svenbutton. In your heart of hearts do you believe your life is better because of your wife? Does she bring you joy? Even when I spend a day with my FWB, I miss my wife. I cannot imagine who I would have become without having her in my life. We all deserve to have this.

    Can you say to your wife. "I need you to respect who I am and in return I will CONTINUE to be the best husband and father I know how to be. But, this marriage is both of our responsibilities. You need to meet me half way".

    If she cannot do this or even want to try then it probably isn't just your sexuality. Could it be she is afraid to give up control?

    The fact that she sees outing you as a way to get even is pretty telling about how she feels about your sexuality. Outing someone should never be a weapon to exert control.
     
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  3. SevnButton

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    The 4th option you described, @Nickw, is essentially what our counselor prescribed. My wife and I both need to say what we need for ourselves, and what we're willing to accept for the other, and see if there's a way to move forward.

    I think Option 1 could be the kiss of death for me. I got a taste of that a few weeks ago when I was becoming depressed when I wasn't nurturing the gay in my soul. I totally agree with what you said.

    What I really need is for my wife to be willing to try to understand, understand why I tried to suppress and hide my gay for all those years, understand why I need to talk with gay or bi people at the very least, and understand why I can't just go back to denying my true authentic self.

    I think my wife uses her rage to try to get her way. Outing me to our neighbor and requiring me to out myself to our kids is all part of the manipulation, and it SO resembles her mother's manipulation, which she SO resents! She is resorting to desperation. Do you know what it feels like to have your life partner say, "I hate you", and repeat it twice? Fortunately for me I saw it as coming from her pain and fear.

    It's not just my wife that I love, it's also our family and our home that we've built together. We had a really good week, just before I told her about the mixer. We were even walking down the street arm-in-arm when we were walking our dog. It could be so good! I hate to throw it all away.
     
  4. Nickw

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    It's horrible to be told by someone you love that they hate you for who you are. I can only imagine how that must feel.

    Have you thought about coming out to your kids anyway. I'm sure they sense the tension. Maybe controlling that part of the narrative will reduce the potential for her to weaponize your sexuality.

    Hell, we may have a gay President and the Governor of my State is gay. The shock value might not be that great!

    I would start the convo with "I agree the kids should know and I'd really like to discuss how I should discuss this with them".
     
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  5. SevnButton

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    That's brilliant! But also frightening. I've often thought that the best way to defeat a blackmailer is to take away the leverage by spilling the beans. It also might ease my wife's angst a bit, if she can quit keeping that secret.
     
  6. Nickw

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    That is scary. And, maybe you are not ready yet. She may not be either. So, you could treat this as a co patenting discussion. You might be able to just say "I'm ready to have this talk. Do you think they are?"
     
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  7. whattodo1

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    I can totally empathize with what you're feeling. I've been having the same thoughts of "am I really willing to throw this all away?" It's taken me a long time to get there but I've finally come to the realization that I am, in a sense, in order to achieve personal authenticity. I don't know if this will help you, but it helped me to try to come up with the "best worst case scenario" for each of the options I had. For example, thinking of separation as just separation was scary, but thinking it could end with us still sharing large parts of our lives together (as good friends, with the kids, maybe traveling) helped me (and her) visualize it as not so bad. When you make a strong effort to take some of the fear out of the decision process I think it helps think more clearly.
     
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  8. Nickw

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    I think @whattodo makes a great point. I was a bit different in my approach to coming out to my wife. I was so fearful and uncertain in how she would react. So, I came to terms with the idea that this could be a marriage killer and I was OK with that before I told her. Of course this was unfair to her that I had come to this conclusion without the benefit of her input.

    But, it helped to remove the fear in a way similar to what @whattodo suggested.
     
  9. DecentOne

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    Yes to this.

    I’m in a different situation, in that I was ready to be out to my (grown) kids the same time I was out to myself and my wife — in that scenario the control she exercises is limiting my permission to be out... we waited at least a couple months to tell the children, just because she wasn’t ready. It is a roller coaster ride for her, one where she didn’t ask for a ticket and didn’t want to ride, and I get that.

    Online what I read from the straight spouse forums is more what you are describing... spouses who don’t like that their “gay in denial” (their words, abbreviated GID) won’t be out. It is hard to hold someone’s secret, especially when not feeling comfortable about (or fearful of) what that means for the marriage. You love her, so how do you negotiate your own fears and uncertainties to find where you need to stretch, and where she needs to be patient (but sees you caring for how this is a strain for her and the two of you)? Even just asking her “how will it be better for you to be able to know [our kids, your parents, our neighbors] would have this information?” Maybe that’s something for the therapy sessions?
     
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  10. brainwashed

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    My take, she is hurt and fears you will leave her eventually. The clue came when she outed you to your neighbor.

    I am not qualified to comment further simply because I've never been married to a women. (never been married to anyone for that matter) Greatwhale or Siennafire may have blogs about this kind of situation.
     
  11. brainwashed

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    Oh I can pretty much guarantee you "the kids" sense the tension. They sponge up information and process said information with powerful brains.
     
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  12. brainwashed

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    Being a bit selfish here by changing the topic just a wee bit - I think.
    I added underlines to the quoted material to emphasize my point.
    My mom never respected other peoples point of view. (on the surface yes but one layer down she did not respect others) Basically she was a control freak.
    My mom never met me or anyone else for that matter half way.
    She would never give up control, period.

    I think (theorize) much of her "programming" comes from her strict ultra right Christian upbringing. This type of Christian does not respect others. They are control freaks and never want to give up control.
     
  13. Nickw

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    @svenbutton

    This does bring up a question unrelated to your sexuality. Does your wife control your children too? Does everyone pretty much need to line up and do what she wants?
     
  14. I'mStillStanding

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    @SevnButton first I’m sorry your going through this. I’m not sure there’s much advice I can offer, when I came out I’d only been married 6.5 years and we didn’t have kids. I knew I didn’t want to continue with my marriage the second I told myself I was gay. A mixed orientation marriage wasn’t right for me and I knew that from the beginning.

    Looking back there’s one thing I have to say... coming out while in a relationship (whether you decide to stay or not) has a heavy price. We really give up control over our coming out to our spouse/partner. My ex and my mom pretty much told most everyone I was gay. At the time I thought it was only fair because of what I was doing and something I had to accept. I was right that I had to accept it, I mean I couldn’t control what they did with the information once I gave it to them. But it wasn’t fair. I still should have been able to make the choice to come in my time... and that’s not what I got.

    I find the fact that you recognize her outing you to the neighbor as being a way to try a manipulate you awesome. A lot of guys miss that, especially when the apologies and tears come after it happens. Several people tried this on me and was shocked it didn’t work.

    The most disturbing thing is the thing she said about the kids. I have a friend who’s ex did the same thing, and I said the same thing to him. This only proves that your emotional well being and feelings, along with your kids are of no concern. It sounds harsh but for her to say you have to tell the kids... it’s ridiculous. If this was any other “issue” that wouldn’t come up. Or at least I don’t think it would I don’t know your wife. I just find it hard to believe she’d want to involve them in an affair, finical problems, etc. So why this? I think she is trying to scare you back in the closet and using your children as the bait... that doesn’t set well with me (not that my opinion matters). I think your kids should know when you’re ready and think they are ready, but doing it how she did when she was anger shows her concern isn’t for anyone but her.

    I’m sorry I feel I’ve been way harsh... I hope things settle down and you find a way forward that is very healthy for yourself and your children.
     
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  15. SevnButton

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    Yup. Our older kids have told us about times when we were in conflict and they were totally tuned into it. We thought we were hiding it so well!
     
  16. brainwashed

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    I don't know why I sense and know kids so well. I just don't know why, but I'm so tuned into them it scares me. Maybe it's because part of me is stuck at my mid teens, a gift from child/young adult abuse during my mid teens.
     
  17. brainwashed

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    OK I'm taking off the gloves. BIG general statement: One of many things that's always bothered me about women and this traces right back to my mom, yes its biased thinking, it's their lack of respect for others. (I now know this is not a true comment for all women)

    Evidence item number 1

    I'mStillStanding you are correct it was not fair and it was so DISRESPECTFUL

    Bingo. I underlined most important point. My mom did this to me when I was 15. She wanted to crush me and she did. It was all about her and not me.

    I agree 100%

    I've observed over the decades, when a person is angry or showing severe emotion they a) lose control and b) they show their inner self. Watch trail attorneys. They are masters of maintaining their emotions. They know if they lose control of their emotions there fresh meat to the wolves - they basically lose a case.

    Someone had to say it. Thanks.
    What @SevnButton has to determine is approach to this situation. I've always liked the "get out in front of the bus" approach. Tell all to all players and be open and honest. Good CEOs use this approach when a company has a bad problem. Hiding the problem makes the situation worse - quite often the problem gets worse.

    Another approach is counselling.

    Few.
     
    #18 brainwashed, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  18. OGS

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    It's really apparent reading this thread that no one wants to hear this, but I still think it needs to be said. You may have to accept that the three options you laid out may in fact be the only options available. It's her life too and it sounds like this is decidedly not what she signed up for--you don't get to build a life with someone against their will.

    To be honest I have a different take on the whole outing thing in this circumstance as well. I remember when I told my Mother. I initially told her not to tell my Father because I wasn't ready yet. She initially agreed, and then came back a few days later and said that I had to tell my Father or she would. And I'll always remember that conversation. She said that while of course this was my life and it should be my choice, it was happening to her too. And it was hard, and it was confusing. And she wanted to be the best mother and the best person she could in this new situation. She said that when things arose in her life that were challenging or confusing, a very large part of how she navigated that was that she talked to her husband. And that I had to let her do that. And I agreed.

    The fact of the matter is that you have foisted a huge secret into the center of your wife's life--a secret that is tearing her up inside and may well tear her whole life apart. And you're not going to keep it secret (because that would terribly psychologically damaging) but she must. She has to keep it secret from the neighbors and even her own family. As her world falls apart she has to pretend it's not happening. Keeping that secret under those circumstances would be so incredibly isolating--and frankly I don't think it's a reasonable expectation.

    Just my two cents...
     
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  19. Nickw

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    @brainwashed

    I think we need to be careful and try not to make our spouses the enemy as we come out. Even though, in a lot of cases, they see our sexuality as the enemy. We understand that our sexuality is so much a part of us that we cannot separate it from ourselves once we accept it.

    However, they don't have the benefit of this perspective. They may continue to see this as something that was not a part of us and, therefore, is something we can continue to control or repress.

    I'm lucky in that my wife works in the mental health and behavioral science fields and she has no "belief system". So, she is much more accepting. She also doesn't need me to complete her.

    I don't think that wives are worse than husbands in this coming out process. At least based on the threads by our women posters. This is an individualized response and I think we really should be careful not to generalize too much.
     
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