what the?????

The way you ended up coming out to your friends reminds me of me somehow. It also took me meeting someone to be able to tell them (though they actually saw us too before, so the word had already gone around). Congratulations, I know it feels intimidating to be with someone of the same sex for the first time, but don't take this away from yourself out of pure fear. You are doing great and we are all proud of you.

 

I couldn't stop smiling throughout reading this, I just found it so romantic and adorable.(Which is really weird since I usually don't like romantic things lol) It sort reminds me of the ending to Con Air and the song that's playing at the end, like how both situations were awkward, but it just turns into this big emotional outburst, it was just really touching. Man I sounded like my sister-in-law there. xD

I'm glad things are working out and I hope y'all will have a bright and wonderful future.

 

I understand it's all new and I congratulate your effort. I think you should try to be a little more open to the idea of two guys doing romantic things together. You use the word "gay" a lot in a sense kind of like you would use the word "feminine". It's not necessarily so. Many openly gay men are very macho and they feel 100% masculine, with all those characteristics that I can assume you see in yourself also. You can be gay and be totally masculine at the same time, it's wrong for you to put in your head the idea of romance as a feminine one, cause everyone deserves romance with whoever they prefer to live it. I might not be bisexual and there is very few girls with whom I'd make an effort to experiment with, however I feel as much of a man as one can feel.

Live your life the way you want to, without putting restrictions to yourself. Your friends are also super supportive of you, so there is nothing to be afraid of!

 

Bizarre, I've never spoken to you, but I'm really made up for you! Think it's awesome your made just tackled you to the ground when you told him!

Go with the flow, Winfield - who knows where it'll lead you! Just enjoy the trip!

 

Oh my Gosh!!! Winfield that's AMAZING!!! (I'm all teary eyed typing this) WOW! Good for you!!!! (*hug*)

Everything is just falling into place and I couldn't be happier for you! You have been so brave and honest through this, you should be incredibly proud of yourself. I know I'm proud of you!

 

This! another thread that makes me grin wide Congratz man, you deserve it!

The "mate tackling you" part reminds me on how I was in a very emotional state when coming out to my mates and how I wished they would not just sit surrounding me and giving out support. A bro needs at least a hug or pat at the back!

 

Congratz Man. Seems like this could keep getting better so I say take it all the way and roar "HELL YEAH!!!" the whole ride.

 

Ok, first thought: WOOOOTTT!!! (!)(!)(!) Congratulations Winfield!! That is so totally FREAKING AWESOME!!!

Second thought: Holy crap, man! Do you do everything at full forward momentum or did you just switch coffee brands this week? Just totally blown away and impressed with the way you are coming at this. Last round of posts, you were really concerned about coming out to your friends, then you just buckle down and DO it! And what a way for that to turn out! Not sure that could have gone any better and totally proud of you and happy for you. Regardless of whatever else may happen I think you're on your way to both an even closer friendship with your mates and being happier on general principles, because you won't have to hide who you are anymore. That's gotta be both exhausting (watching every word and look and being prepared to make up plausible lies all the time has got to burn a lot of energy) and stressful.

Third thought: I'm glad you like my examples and that they are helpful. That said, I don't buy the whole 'I'm not that smart' thing for a second (and if I did, I'm sure you've got a bridge in Sydney you'd like to sell me ). Truth-in-advertising: If I could reach through the computer screen and smack you (gently) upside the head every time you put yourself down, I would. If I could find the people who did a number on you to put you in the headspace to do that to yourself, the smacking would be a lot less than gentle for them...and might involve a very big stick...Sorry, but one of the few things that really pushes my buttons :tantrum:

Moving on to some other things you've mentioned:

I sympathize with it feeling weird to be figuring out this whole having feelings for a guy and what to call it, and him, and whatnot. I can tell you that after a while you get used to it and can even get where you like it

As far as the whole 'boyfriend' thing or what to call him or you or the like: I don't think my partner and I ever went through a phase of calling each other 'boyfriend'. For a good bit we just introduced each other 'this is Todd' and let people figure it out. Eventually we each started using the term we were most comfortable with. He usually introduces me as his 'other half' and I introduce/refer to him as my 'partner'. Both of these are usually associated with a somewhat longer relationship than you've got just yet, but whatever floats your boat. More to the point, you don't need to both use the same term and you can just let it evolve and see what you end up feeling most comfortable with. Again, being honest with him about how you are still processing this is probably the best approach along with making it clear that your feelings for him aren't tied to any specific term.

Finally, re the whole romance thing and the idea of having a boyfriend and things being 'gay' or 'fem' or the like. First off, let me be clear that it doesn't bother or offend me I know you aren't trying to be offensive, you're just trying to communicate your feelings.

The sense I get when you say this sort of thing is that you are sort of equating this sort of stuff with being 'girly' or 'soft' or 'weak' in some way (If I'm off base on this, please tell me and explain what you are really meaning - I could be totally missing the boat here).

Some thoughts on that:

I believe you mentioned that your guy is a mechanic. I would bet that, when necessary, he is quite perfectly capable of applying a very gentle touch when working on something, because that's what is needed at that time. And that he can also pick up a mallet and hit something really hard with a lot of strength, because that's what is needed at another time. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It is possible to be very gentle at one point and very strong at another. One doesn't prevent the other.

Coming at this from another direction: You mentioned earlier in the thread that your mom and your kids are very important to you. If you were giving them a hug, would you squeeze to the limits of your strength or would you be gentle? And would being gentle mean that you were no longer strong? Of course not! The same thing can apply here.

Being 'romantic' can also take a lot of different forms, and doesn't have to be the 'traditional' cheesy stuff if you don't want it to be. Mostly it boils down to showing that you care and that can take a lot of forms. As with a lot of stuff, this is something that the two of you can kind of evolve on your own as things develop between you. And again, it's ok if you each express it in a different way as long as you appreciate what the other is doing and what the intent is

Having feelings for someone doesn't make you weak, man. It just gives you someone to be strong for.

Congrats again. So totally proud of you right now.

Best,

Todd

 

Just getting ready to crash and gotta get up for work tomorrow so will keep this short. Prolly others will weigh in as well.

I don't think you need to delete your posts. If your kids mom is here and is seeing women it's not like she should have a problem with you.

Your kids will be fine because their parents love them. It sounds like you are both working for their best interests and don't try to demonize each other or anything.

As long as you made it clear that you want your guy to meet your mates and you want to meet his friends I think you'll be fine. Just do it soon, ok? Your mates are likely to push you harder on this than EC ever could anyway. They are going to want to meet him.

Things are happening fast but not that fast where your kids are concerned. Don't panic.

Ok, gotta sleep. Will post more tomorrow after work.

Best,

Todd

 

Aaandd, we're back. Going to pick this up from here for easier reference.

Starting from here:

a) Thanks! I'll try to keep them relevant as we move alone

b) Congratulations! You're both lucky guys That said, I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean by him 'asking you out'. As I recall, you guys have done lunches and dinners and movies and rugby matches and much else together. This leads me to think that 'asking you out' in this context means more than just a literal 'would you like to go get dinner with me?' or the like. If I'm misunderstanding the meaning here, and therefore offbase on my answer, please educate me and I'll try again.

For now, I guess I'd say it's good that you're trying to work through your twitchiness on this issue. And perhaps you could pick up the tab for dinner or drive or something in the near future so that balance can be restored to the universe? Just a thought.

Thinking about this, I would suggest that his being faster off the mark on this sort of stuff is because he's a little further along in the whole being out and such thing then you are. Basically you're attention is at least partly focused on that issue, while his is just focused on you. But you're in the process of catching up quickly and I'm sure you'll be fine. And we're all rooting for you (both of you actually).

c) Re the upcoming barbie - I'll admit I've been of two minds about this as I've thought about your post today (and I really have been thinking about it off and on all day). At one point I was thinking that it would be good for your guy to meet your friends ASAP. Thinking about it more though, I think you need this time with them to come out and work through that process with them, without the added stress of also introducing someone who is both a stranger and someone you have feelings for into the mix in quite this way. Plus it could be quite stressful for your guy.

I was not kidding when I said that your friends are going to want to meet him, both to find out who this guy is on general principles but also to (quite frankly) check him out and make sure he's good enough for you. I suspect that the thought that your mates care about you that much is gonna make you squirm a little (based on your earlier description of your reaction to your mate coming over and asking what was wrong) but there it is. When a friend of mine introduced her boyfriend (now husband) to our circle some years back, we all pretty much did everything but take fingerprints and check his teeth (and I'm not entirely sure about the fingerprints...).

Don't be surprised if you get something of the same treatment when you meet his friends btw

Regardless, I would still suggest that you arrange for him to meet your friends (and for you to meet his) as soon as possible after the barbie. I'm sure you'll all end up getting along great and end up with a larger circle of mates all around. I also won't be shocked if at least some of your friends already know each other to one degree or another. Just a guess, of course.

On a related note, I'm assuming your friend J will also be at the barbie and may end up coming out to you as you are coming out to him. Since everyone else in your circle already knows about him, I'm not sure how this will all shake out (the idea of a gay mate isn't going to be new to them, you know about him while he doesn't know about you, etc.) but I'm sure it'll be fine. Have fun

Ok, moving on...

Ok, let's think this through:

First, I am going to assume that your kids do not come and stay with you for the summer (US summer that is) or the like so you aren't going to have them showing up on your door any time in the next 90 days or so, correct? If this assumption is wrong, please let me know and we can regroup. But if I'm right then (frankly) this issue is probably the least urgent from a time pressure perspective. Yes, you are going to need to address it, but it probably isn't something you need to deal with in the next week or even next several months. And/or you can address it in a gradual manner (see my thoughts for options below).

Second, if your ex was dating guys, then I suspect your main reaction would be concern that whoever she was seeing would be someone who would treat her right and treat your kids right. And presumably be able to get along with you since I gather you do have contact with them and a role in their lives and would want to continue that.

Third, as you may have seen in other threads here, or as I'm sure several people will be happy to point out, kids raised by non-straight parents turn out just fine. The right-wing crap about them being messed up is just that - crap.

Ok, let's look at 2 and 3: If your ex is dating women, I would suggest that you treat this no differently then if she were dating men. Of course you want what is best for your kids, which means that the person your ex dates (and maybe even eventually settles down with) should be a person of good character who will treat your kids right. That they may be a woman instead of a man shouldn't make a difference. Your kids need a loving, supportive family life and non-straight people (in this case you, your ex, and your potential future partners) can provide that just as well as straight people. Maybe better. Giving them that is the best thing you can do for their future, honestly.

Moving on...

Fourth, I am again assuming that your ex's reaction to the thought of coming out to you is also rooted in the perception that you are homophobic. You've said that you were once, and she isn't up on current events so she presumably thinks you still are.

I see three potential options here:

a) You just flat out come out to her, explaining along the way that while you were homophobic and are still working on this to some degree you no longer are since you realized you are bi. She presumably/hopefully then comes out to you and you guys figure out a way forward.

b) You ease into this a bit by telling her that one of your mates recently came out to you, that it really changed your views on homosexuality. You could make a point of saying things like being gay doesn't change who a person is, that you really don't like negative stuff being said about gay people, and that you think gay people can make great parents, etc. Hopefully this gets her to come out to you (eventually) and you can then come out to her, and things move on from there.

c) You ease into the subject even more gently, maybe by talking about the recent gay marriage vote in New Zealand. Be supportive of it, say supportive things about gay marriage and gay people in general, etc. Hopefully this gets her to come out to you (eventually) and you can then come out to her, and things move on from there.

Or something like this. Basically, there are ways to work this out or open the door for her to come out to you and so on, hopefully with minimum drama all around.

Ok, now on to the issue of all this stuff coming down on you at once. You are pretty much the definition of 'it never rains but it pours', I'll give you that.

First, the barbie and coming out to your friends will be happening in less than a week. So that issue will be resolving itself quite soon. Probably not all at one go, but the main event will have happened and any followups should be much less stressful.

Second, you and your guy are going to be an ongoing process for a while. New relationships always are. I am a little concerned about your stress level with all these things happening at once, though. As such, I'd like to suggest/ask that you do the following asap:

Get together with your guy in some quiet place and give him a big hug. Wrap your arms around him so you have his pinned to his side and you are pressed to together from the waist down and have to lean back a little to look him in the eye. Look him in the eye and tell him how you feel about him, how happy you are to have him in your life, or whatever nice thing comes to mind. Then give him a big hug and shift your hold so his arms are free and he can hug back. Now just hold that pose for a bit and just...be in the moment for a while. No thoughts, no concerns, no 'oh crap, I'm not being manly enough here'. Just be. Because I really think you need some quiet time about now and probably a good hug.

Repeat as necessary and maybe intersperse with a night or two of just watching movies on the couch while holding him in your arms. Something in a good distraction (comedy or whatever is your thing) seems good. Laughter or cheering on the good guys or whatever is good.

Ok, I can hear the objections lining up now. But just consider humoring me, Ok? At least once? I mean, I've got you putting your arms around him and pinning him and getting to be the guy and everything here. Anyway.

Finally, about your ex somehow finding your posts here and what she might think of you. You just found out she's into women and you don't seem to think any less of her. I don't see how she could think badly of you for doing a version of what she is doing.

Ok, I think that about covers it. If I missed anything, please let me know.

Best,

Todd

P.S.:

Ok, I know at some point in the above you're maybe going 'WTF!? What is he doing mentioning my potential partner and my kids?'. Reason for that is pretty simple: Earlier in the thread you described in some detail your thoughts on telling your guy about your kids and your reaction when he reacted so positively to the idea of kids and of you having kids. I would suggest that you reacted as you did because somewhere in your head or in your heart you want someone in your life who could (and would want to) meet your kids someday. Or maybe raise some more with you. Ok, you might not have imagined it might be a guy. Fine. But I'm having a hard time seeing how you would have reacted as you did if you didn't see this guy (or somebody) ever conceivably meeting them or having any interaction with them or any potential future children of yours ever. Of course, if I've totally missed the boat on this one, please feel free to kick me in the head and I'll admit my mistake. I'm a bit sleep-deprived at the moment and my radar could be glitchy.

 

When I hadn't been out long, I'd get nervous meeting new people in that situation, too.

In my head all they were thinking was "man, that dude *loves* the D". But in reality, all they were really interested in was which team I supported and which beer I drank.

I wouldn't expect it'll be all that different for you.

 

Wow! Congratulations even more than And after thinking about it today, I can even get you a gift (I hope you like the color...). Specifically:

On of the things you've mentioned several times is that it bugs you when your guy 'beats you to the punch' on various aspects of your relationship that you equate with 'being the guy'. Of course you've also been really good about working past those feelings, but I can tell it's still a source of discomfort for you. But after reading about this latest development this AM, I think I have an idea that will help.

One word: Anniversary

Specifically, it is traditional in a relationship to commemorate important events by celebrating in some fashion on the anniversary of the important event. Note that the time between the important event and the anniversary celebration can be anything you want it to be. One week, one month, one year, one day I suppose. And it is traditional for the guy to initiate the celebration.

By my count you already have several potential anniversary sources to play with (date you first met, date you first hooked up, date you had lunch and confessed your feelings for each other, date you became partners, etc.). You can decide to celebrate any or all of these on a regular basis and at your discretion, either by surprising him or by telling him ahead of time to 'save the date'. If/when he asks what for, you can smirk or smile evilly and just say something like 'you'll find out'. Personally, I'm a control freak so I would go with the 'save the date' option to avoid him beating me to it with a surprise, but it's your call

When the date comes, you can celebrate in any number of ways from the traditionally romantic candlelit dinner (stop squirming, I'm just being thorough)) to base jumping, to paintball, to whatever you both enjoy doing (I looked up Melbourne - it's huge! and I'm sure there's lots to do). Or that you think he'd enjoy doing and that you'd like to introduce him to. And of course you can mix and match things if you have time or inclination or throw in gifts (no, they don't have to be romantic or cute or whatever - I bet both of you would appreciate a good solid back rub from someone strong enough to really work the muscles - so you could give him one). And of course, fun between the sheets is also traditional for celebrating these sorts of anniversaries

The point of all this being - you now have multiple, and repeated, opportunities to 'be the guy' and the option of scheduling ahead of time (which I'd recommend) for stuff that I think your guy will really like and appreciate and which can also be stuff you enjoy too.

Like I said, I hope you like the color

Cool! I know you've said/indicated that you've wanted an LGBT friend. So an added bonus to this situation then. As far as you and your guy being checked out by your respective mates, I'm sure it will be fine either way.

Well, that potentially accelerates some things a bit, but as you say it's still some time off. Regarding seeing your guy, I'd say see how you both feel when the time comes. Based on his earlier answers, I think he'd be thrilled and honored to meet them, but also totally understanding if you aren't ready for that yet. Depending on where things are with the whole coming out thing between you and your ex (more on that below), you might just introduce him as a friend, either to everyone, or at least to your kids even if your ex knows the real deal by then. If she does know the deal by then, then perhaps arrange something where the kids can go play while the three of you have the opportunity to talk.

Very likely. Coming out first would seem to be the most direct option, but let me stress that I don't know either of you or the dynamics of your relationship. So have to rely on you for 'boots on the ground' knowledge of the situation and the best options. I think it would ease her mind a lot, even if she didn't immediately turn around and come out to you (although it would be cool if she did).

With you both out to each other, you could discuss what the situation is with your kids (do they know she is seeing women now? If so, how do they feel about it? How are they likely to react to you coming out to them, etc.) and how best to approach things, either during this trip or in the future if you decide that this particular trip isn't the time to come out. I'm a big fan of open communication, if you hadn't noticed yet

I'll be honest with you, things seem to be moving very fast for you right now. You've done as much in a matter of months (hell, a matter of days) as many people do in several years. That said, I wouldn't say that that's a bad thing. With the exception of the thing with your ex, you seem to be pretty much driving the pace of change yourself. So I guess my question is: How are you feeling about all this and how fast it is moving? I get the sense that you're bouncing between elation and 'Holy Crap!' on something like a 24hr cycle (although that could just be the time zone thing). But I don't have any info except what you choose to post here. No body language or voice tone or knowing you to draw on either. So...how are you doing?

On a somewhat related note: It took me less than an hour to figure out I was gay and start coming out. My partner and I moved in together less than 2 months after meeting and have been together 16yrs now (no, I'm not suggesting that you do the same, just giving an example of something happening in an abnormal fashion and turning out fine).

'Normal' is a pretty loaded word, frankly. It gets used a lot to denote 'good' but I'd argue things are much more complex than that. Consider:

I gather you (and your guy) are both very good looking, including being much more in shape and muscular than the average guy. So technically, you're not normal. Diamonds aren't normal, gold isn't normal, opals (to pay a visit to your neck of the planet) aren't normal. So 'normal', in and of itself, is not automatically good.

Well, maybe I'm not being entirely correct in saying I don't know you. I've picked up a bit of a sense of you from our conversations:smilewave

My main goal in suggesting this is just being concerned that you're getting stressed with all that is going on and wanting to suggest something to help you relax. Holding/Being held by someone you care about, being alone together, and just sharing each others presence while not thinking about everything else (or anything else) for a few minutes should be relaxing for you (I hope). Closing your eyes while hugging is also good. If he starts rubbing your shoulders, even better

I obviously don't know your son, but I think he (and your daughter, I'm assuming your other child is a girl since you didn't say 'sons') would be fine if the end result was a happy, loving family life. Note that your son is or soon will be a teenager (If I've done the math right) and will be rebelling against something or other any day now.

Rather more seriously, (and remembering I don't know your situation with your family), is it possible your son already knows/is friends with gay people or people who have gay parents? I don't know where in the US they are obviously, but if it's a major population center then that's certainly a possibility. My best friend's 10yr old son goes to school with a boy who has two mom's and no one thinks anything of it. And as you know from EC, kids around his age are coming out more and more. So it may not be that big of a deal to him.

If your ex is concerned about your (past) homophobia, could that have rubbed off on your son (or even been explicitly told to him) so that he wouldn't tell you about that sort of thing, even if he considered gay kids/parents no big deal? Does he know about your ex dating women or is she not out to them?

On a related note, as far as coming out to your ex and/or your kids, I'd actually suggest posting a separate question about this to the "LGBT Later in Life' sub-forum and maybe this one as well. I don't have kids so only operating in theory here, but several of the other older members here have kids and have come out to them, I believe. Also other family members as well probably. They can certainly offer advice and insights on this that are beyond my expertise and experience.

I'm always happy to help and hope I'm actually being helpful

As far as meeting his friends, I agree with Lull. You'll be fine

Best,

Todd

 

Proud of you! I hope whatever happens feels good and right.

 

I also thank you for sharing your story! It's really very endearing to read, and it's just so sweet it makes me smile! :icon_bigg It's seriously something amazing and I think you have a lot to be thankful for!! Please keep us updated, we're all happy to listen! ^-^