LGBT News What are your thoughts on gay pride parades?

I guess people should agree to disagree. Pride isn't for everyone, either because of its content, how they want to spend their time, or some of both.

 

Where have you been to Pride where people get their genitals out? I've been to several and I've never seen that. I have seen it on the beach, though, now that I think about it.

 

The issue isn't that some people like to attend Pride events and others do not. There are lots of reasons why someone might not want to attend Pride events. There is no one judging anyone else who has a reason or an opinion as why Pride events aren't for them.

The problem is, as I pointed out previously, twofold. It involves people within the community creating a double standard for the community, and / or people within the community telling other people in the community that they don't belong primarily because they represent certain aspects of the community that makes cis-gender straights uncomfortable.

These are inappropriate behaviors, words, and actions regardless whether or not we're talking about Pride events or not. They are things that actively harm our community.

If someone says, "Look, I'm introverted, and I dislike large crowds. As a result Pride really isn't my thing." No one is going to have a problem with that. If, on the other hand they're saying, "So-and-so and Such-and-such shouldn't be allowed to attend the event because of the message it sends to straight people." Then that's inappropriate and not acceptable in any context.

It's divisive and it's something that actively hurts people within our community. This is why people get angry. And when we're talking about Pride specifically, this accounts for 98% of the complaints received from other members in the community. And it comes up every. freakin'. year.

The anger has nothing to do with Pride itself, and everything to do with the harm it causes to the community.

 

I'm introverted and I dislike large crowds. I do things solo, in 2s, in 3s, and in 4s. That's half of the above equation.

As for what's inappropriate, your last sentence, and the second half of the equation, as quoted, comes off as rigid. That doesn't allow people to have a personal opinion. I stated that I don't care to see anything that flaunts promiscuity or an over the top sexual message for public consumption. I also wouldn't go for that reason. I was once in a tourist resort and they were handing out escort flyers with small round circles covering up breasts and vaginas, and totally within view of little kids. I didn't approve, but that is the norm in that area. If the flyers were handed out inside a strip club, I wouldn't object. I can't determine what is in the line-up at a pride parade, nor do I want to. I'm sure some organizing committee does. However, I don't see how tolerating anything and everything on the parade's roster is either a reason to attend, even if a person is comfortable in crowds, and how that would galvanize the community. I just don't see the relationship here.

 

Agreed. Unless you can explicitly relate an actual, real world Pride event that you personally attended in which you saw this happen as a part of the sanctioned proceedings - you are just making up a strawman argument.

As far as people dancing with little in the way of clothing on - so what? Sex and titillation are a natural part of life. Straight inundate nearly every second of every day in sex, much of it far less tasteful than Pride. Or do you think cheerleaders really need to dress the way they do to stay cool? Or that lingerie models on billboards are oh so family friendly? Or is it that it's (gasp) gay sex that is being referenced or implied in the case of Pride that is so awful? Yes, the point keeps being raised about 'appropriateness'. But this rings rather hollow to me since nowhere near the same passion is expressed re straight events that are much more sexual than Pride. Or are you now going to argue that straights shouldn't have Mardi Gras and cheerleaders, and the zillion other things they sexualize because it makes a bad impression on...who, exactly?

For that matter, it's been pointed out multiple times that, at least in the case of the larger Pride events, that the organizers either arrange for the whole thing to be 'family friendly' or use some combination of scheduling and space planning to provide 'family friendly' times and places for those who want them. Yet this point is consistently ignored by those who don't like Pride on the basis of how supposedly sexualized it is (although they also tend to insist that they won't ever go to Pride for that reason, so one has to wonder what their basis for comparison is).

For that matter, since when does everything in existence have to be 'family friendly'? There are a whole range of activities and venues that are both public and yet also very much either ban children or leave it to the parents to decide - why should Pride be held to some special 'higher' standard, exactly?

Todd

 

Tightrope -

Except, of course, it has nothing to do with opinion. It's an attempt to force a double standard and conformity onto others. Here is what you said:

You're not just stating your opinion, there is an intent behind your statement, and it's highlighted in what I quoted above. It's to say: "Hey, this is how some cis-gender straights view us. You should change the way that you dress and behave to make them more comfortable, so it doesn't reflect poorly on me."

This is basically what it boils down to. You feel insecure because of the way other people dress or behave because of some small minded individuals. You are worried that they're too stupid to separate out what someone else does, with what you do, and therefore they'll judge you harshly because of the dress or behavior of someone else.

The counter argument to that is that these people that you are concerned about are bigots. No matter how other people dress or act they're never going to look upon you approvingly, and your self-worth should not be tied into gaining their approval. Furthermore, trying to change other people for this purpose is wrong, because it's teaching them that their self-worth should be based on how other people perceive or judge them.

The entire notion goes against the very core of Pride. It's that type of thinking that keeps people in the closet.

It also creates a double standard for the community, because it's not an equal standard applied to cis-gender straights. It's something that only applies to us, because the source of discomfort has nothing to do with guys in swimwear waving to the crowd from a float. No, it has to do with how cis-gender straights VIEW him and EVERYONE even remotely associated with him (in other words all gay / bisexual men - more specifically yourself).

The truly sad part is that even if people did as you'd like them to, and changed it wouldn't make you feel any better. That's because the very people you want to earn the approval of will find something else to condemn, because their issue has nothing to do with men in swimwear it has to do with men being gay. Period. The swimwear issue is a convenient shield to cover up their bigotry and has nothing to do with it.

...and of course, if you've ever bothered to attend a Pride event, you'd find that they're actually quite tame and fairly family friendly. It's about as risque as going to a public beach or a carnival. If you think either the beach or a carnival is too inappropriate for children and the family, then yeah - I wouldn't bring the kids. However, most people don't, and so have no problem.

I'm sure it's probably extreme if you live in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan where some women are forced to wear a burkha. Then again, who knows? Maybe we should all show up in burkha's to avoid offending straight people with our deviant sexuality. Maybe that will finally make them all happy, so that they never have to see a gay person again - we'll hide behind pieces of cloth to make them comfortable.

While we're at it, maybe we should all be required to walk around with a bottle of Purell Hand Sanitizer tied to a chain around our necks. This would be for straight men to use when they interact with us so they don't feel so dirty. You know, because when they think about us they associate us with "viruses and bacteria" - this way they can instantly purify and sanitize themselves the moment they come into contact with us.

Maybe that will finally make everyone happy and comfortable with us. Then again, it probably won't, because they'll be reminded that we still exist - which is their real problem.

 

Aldrick, you're trying to convince me and you've spent quite a few paragraphs trying to do so. It won't work. I'm not a prude. If I want to see or experience something, then I will. If I don't, then I won't. So, again, I don't like crowds and, then, the idea of an effigy of an oversized phallus bouncing on a float, which I saw on TV for the city's pride parade either that same night or the following day, just confirmed that I shouldn't have been there. I was doing the Home Depot thing that day, if I recall, and got a lot accomplished.

 

ive been to the san francisco gay pride parade. Its edgy (less so then it use to be, so ive heard). Its big, loud and flamboyant. Yes, there are naked men walking around, but thats part of the tradition and the fun of it all.

 

Tightrope -

If you read my previous post and you thought I was calling you a prude, then it seems that my attempt to be tactful failed. I wasn't trying to suggest that you were a prude in the slightest. I was pointing out that you have internalized homophobia and you're projecting it onto everyone else.

That was the entire point of quoting your previous post, which is served up to be a clear example of it.

You would only be a prude if any hint of sexuality bothered you, AND you actively were going out of your way to treat straight people equally. In your case, neither of these things is true.

 

In a nutshell, I knew this was where you were going. And so do many others when this argument comes up. Thanks for sharing. Time to go to bed now. I'm starting to yawn.

 

Similarly it is perfectly fine for young black males to use n*gger because thats what their age frame of reference dictate? If people use offensive words to describe themselves that is their personal choice, if they start using them to describe others then yes I will challenge that. Its called standing up for your rights and beliefs, not being "pissy".

Go back to San Francisco pride. It happens.

Because people who disagree have never struggled or tried to fit in? How do you know what its like growing up being on the outskirts? Thinking "well pride isn't for me, now what, am I even gay?".

Please explain again how nudity is a representation of a type of gayness? People get naked and act douchey in the straight community (your Jersey Shore types) and people challenge them, thats not being heterophobic. The desire to get half-naked isn't a gay thing that needs unquestioning protecting as an "intrinsic part of gay identity".

 

I attended the annual Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardis Gras this year with my eldest child and we had a ball. Going back next year.

 

I believe they're fine as long as it's not inappropriate. I've never been to one myself because such events are not safe to attend in my country. There were some violence incidents. I would consider going to one somewhere in America though.

 

I don't understand the complaints against all the half naked men, if it was the beach there would be half naked men, and nobody would complain there.

 

I completely support pride, but I personally wouldn't want to be apart of it. That's just me though, it isn't my scene really.

 

Context. If it was in the middle of an office then people would complain. Similarly half-nudity isn't deemed appropriate every other day on the street.

Its all about situationally appropriate dress. If I went to a job interview wearing a pair of swimmers I'd expect to be dismissed, thats not the company being homophobic or prudish, its just there are certain standards in place.

As a bit of a light-hearted example:

New Zealand - togs or undies - you choose - YouTube

 

If it's about context, I think gay pride parades have been established to have partial nudity, just like at the beach. I don't think that the same rules for out in the street apply during a celebration of any kind. Also where I live you see plenty of runners with their shirts off on the sidewalks next to the streets, I mean it's summer right now, and if they where in their shirts they would get all sweaty and gross. Sometimes you see women running around just in a sports bra with no shirt. You also see the occasional drunken student in their underwear too.

 

What's the point here? At the beginning, the thread had the people of EC giving their opinions. Now, it's a situation where we can't agree to disagree and a situation where people on one side of this divide are trying to convince the other side that their point of view is the correct one, and vice versa. "Nice big happy family," eh? Let's move on.

 

Don'tcha ya know? There's specific correct ideas and beliefs about within the LGBT+ community. If you don't accept them 100% you're not gay or that's your good old internalized homophobia flaring up because complete strangers on the Internet can get a complete picture of you from snippets you talk about here.

But yeah, it's grating that people in the LGBT+ community can't have different positions on issues without someone saying something about internalized homophobia or the person is x-ist about something. I agree, let's move on.