This world lacks manners and sophistication

@ Hexagon ^ This.

A class system only seeks to reinforce a culture of privilege and this versus them.

 

I just don't think it's right for anyone to try and dictate how other people dress and act. Yeah, I might roll my eyes when I see someone getting groceries in PJs, but what does it have to do with me? Why would it be any of my business?

 

*sigh*

 

I also tend to find the people I know who are richer (Not a dig at Alexander at all I don't think he's like this.) to be the most offensively rude and incredibly condescending people I have ever met.

They could really learn some manners.

 

Why is it inappropriate? Why is it lazy?

 

So...I don't think I've posted anything in one of these threads before, but this one kind of spoke to me...

Hi Alexander, I'm Todd - Nice to meetcha :smilewave

This thread sort of triggered lots of thoughts, so I'll just sort of list em out and see what you think.

First off, I'll agree that you probably don't have a good sense of what things cost and that impacts your view of the world. This isn't anything unique to you, but seems to be a common characteristic among children of wealthy parents. My partner used to teach at a performing arts high school and many of the students were children of wealthy parents (probably not as wealthy as I gather your family is, but whatever). For these kids, cost was simply never discussed and they had a hard time comprehending the idea that cost would ever be a factor in making a decision. So you're not alone in this. It doesn't make you a bad person, but it does perhaps give you a bit of added responsibility to sort of mentally stop and realize that you operate in a somewhat unique environment. I get the sense you're trying and that's a good thing. Eventually it gets easier with practice.

Second, and on a more general note, I'd point to people like Bill Gates or Warren Buffet. These guys are wealthy on a scale that probably dwarfs even your family and all their friends and relations combined (unless you're oil barons or something, I guess) and if you look at interviews with them, they tend to dress very simply. Ok, they're a good bit older than you, but look also at the CEOs of most major corporations or some of the dot.com founders (Google, Facebook, etc.) and how they dress. And most of them are paid millions of dollars a year.

I'd also guess that your family can certainly dress up very nicely when they want to, but you've indicated in several threads that they drive you up a wall and that your mother in particular isn't terribly nice. So looking good doesn't necessarily say anything about the person.

Regarding designer labels: I can certainly afford Tommy Hilfiger or the like if I want to, but I would ask why I would want to? For starters, a designer label is no guarantee of quality, it's just a guarantee that you will be paying for the privilege of wearing a designer label. If you're wearing jeans and t-shirts, or even polos and slacks, then general low-cost retail stuff will work just fine and cost a fraction as much. Also, I'd rather spend my money on other things. And no, I certainly don't play at the financial level your family appears to. And it's a truism that the more you make the more you spend. But even if I was as rich as your family, I have a hard time seeing myself buying designer labels if I couldn't see a significant improvement in quality of product.

Speaking of money, and not asking you to violate the anonymity of the forum, but do you know where your family's money comes from? Because it presumably isn't just appearing out of nowhere and someone (your father, your grandparents, siblings, etc.) must have done or be doing something to earn it and continue to keep it coming in. I ask, because in other threads, you've indicated that your parents tend to throw money or things (a new SUV was mentioned as I recall) at you whether you want them or not and that this leads to fights and stresses you out. It occurred to me that you might try to get them to just give you money directly and then arrange to meet with your family's financial planner or adviser or money manager or whatever it is you have to see about investing it in something with a decent rate of return. The returns would be a bit of income that you've earned on your own in a sense (OK, not directly, but more than if its just given to you) and you could reasonably argue that its you're money to do as you wish with, including donating to charity or something (both returns earned and the money originally given), even if your parents don't like it. Presumably if the money is in your account, you can do things with it without going through your parents.

On a related note, while I understand and applaud the basic idea behind getting a job at McDonald's (as I understand your reasons for doing it based on things I've seen here), would it be possible for you to go to college and then get a better paying job that would let you essentially live independently of your parents, even if you couldn't live at the same financial level that you do now? Apologies if the reasons for not doing this have already been posted at some point in the past. I'm pretty new here still.

Getting back to the issue of dress and looking good. If someone likes how you look, they probably aren't going to care what you're wearing whether it's a tuxedo or a barrel. That said, looking good may get you noticed and even talked to initially, but it's things like personality, charm, warmth, and such that will keep them talking to you and wanting to see you more. Not saying you don't have these things (I don't know you), but maybe something to focus on besides clothes.

Now, all of this said, I don't see anything wrong with wanting to look good or have nice clothes if that's something you enjoy. But I'd suggest treating it as just that: Something that gives you pleasure but not something that says anything more about you (or anyone else) than that: that you like dressing a certain way and that others may or may not like dressing that way or may or may not be able to. Think of it as similar to liking certain foods. You probably wouldn't judge someone because they don't like your favorite food, after all.

I think that sitting down with family for a meal is a fine thing if you like it. Could you suggest doing something like that with your family? Or maybe make that a goal for when you have a family of your own? Or try to get friends together to share a meal in a home or the like.

I'd also point out that people have been disliking the clothing choices of the younger generation for just about as long as there have been clothes

Ok, I'll stop rambling now.

Todd

 

Again, chewing with your mouth open that kinda stuff. Completely inappropriate it's just unnecessary. I and a lot of people get grossed out by it.

Who the hell has an aversion to elbows?

 

While I do think common courtesy is a bit lacking in today's society, I would still much rather live in modern times over the past. Yes, while it may appear more elegant and sophisticated, it always seems a bit cold and too serious for my tastes. I guess I can understand the desire for structure to some part, but I prefer generally letting people be who they are and do what they feel comfortable with. It's like for New Year's Eve this year, my bestie and I were in Toronto looking for a club to go to. After searching around, we found many that were incredibly expensive, had strict dress codes and the decorations were elegant...and to us they just seemed incredibly pretentious. Where did we end up? A bar called the Bovine Sex Club that had an incredible Irish Punk band, where we dressed up in punk attire and where everyone was laid back and having a good time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you don't need pricey items to have respect or a good attitude. Everyone at the Bovinve Sex Club were respectful and polite to one another even though as an establishment it lacked what you may call "sophistication."

And as to the reference to the Titanic dinner party...that party was so cold and had such forced atmosphere to it. I would much rather have been here
[YOUTUBE]erAQ9LkftwA[/YOUTUBE]

 

Just an additional thought and then I need to get to bed:

There seems to be a bit of confusion developing here re the use of the word 'class':

Class can mean a class of people separated by social strata within a society, often tied to money or ancestry or both.

It can also mean having a certain level or type of behavior that others appreciate and loop up to. This second definition of the term may be associated with the first but doesn't have to be. It's possible for someone of quite modest means to have 'class'.

I'm not sure which of these Alexander was going for from the start, but it may have been the second one. However, it seems that folks are treating them as interchangeable or woven together and that's not necessarily the case. Someone can very much be 'working class' and yet have a lot of 'class'. And someone can be rolling in money and be thought to have no class, even by their peers who are just as wealthy.

Point being that it usually helps any discussion when people are clear on what is being spoken of since misunderstandings can send the conversation off down various rabbit holes and just cause unnecessary upset all around.

Just something be bear in mind.

G'night all,

Todd

 

Who decided that the table isn't for your elbows, and why should their decision have any bearing on how others should eat? I can understand not wanting people to chew with their mouths open....but honestly, how does someone putting their elbows on the table interfere with other people's eating abilities?

 

I often complain about the lack of manners and simple common decency. There is nothing wrong with wanting that back in society.

I wouldn't want to go back to a time where the lack of civil rights for LGBT people was commonplace. I prefer being a woman with the ability to support myself and make my own decisions.

The ripped jeans and things don't bother me unless it is not an appropriate venue. For example, I can't stand when teachers wear inappropriate clothing to work. I've worn jeans, that's fine so long as they are neat and clean and dressed up with a nice blouse. Some teachers come to school like they are going to the gym or the beach. That bothers me but I'm not their boss so its really none of my business.

 

Glad I understood....I think it's something people can misinterpret. I feel the same way as you.

 

You say that to have class is to be "respectful, kind and collected" and I can agree with that. However, on the same note, who is to say that a person who decides to wear pajamas to the store is *not* respectful or kind? In one hand you are saying that class is internal qualities and in the other you are judging someone's class on physical appearance and possessions.

 

After seeing more and more comments, I think we should just forget about rules to live by. If you want to stop wearing deodorant, well, gosh, the do it! Who cares if you smell. If you want to chew with your mouth open, well...gosh! Go for it. And fart in public? Yey!

I could be wrong, but I really think Alex was getting at the mindset of people. I don't have a Ton of money, but I always try to look nice. No one has to know my clothes came from the outlet store. You can make a 600 shirt look classless and a 5 dollar one look great.

Class, to me, is a mindset. That's definitely modern - you don't have to have money or be born into it.

I know some of you are just so freedom loving that you can't imagine being told what to do, and I get that that. However, it's just something in me that is driven absolutely nuts by that.