The Debate on God

Ouch, I believe that I WILL see my beloved animals in the afterlife, it wouldn't be heaven without my special dog Buddy.

 

I don't even know what I believe in. None of the religions really suit me that well, and I unless I have some sort of an epiphany, than I'll probably just stay agnostic.

 

I think that if there were a god, he wouldn't allow some of the evil to exist. Why would God allow people to rape children? Why would God allow hate in the first place?

 

The bible's explanation of that is "Free Will" apparently... because God wants us to choose to worship him all on our own.

 

This is exactly what I believe!

 

I believe that there is a God. I'm a Christian, so believing in God is one of the basic principles of Christianity. I'm really into backpacking, and I've hiked across some really beautiful things, which to me, makes me feel like there is a supreme being. I feel like the universe is so large in scope that someone had to create it. And I really don't see the point in believing in nothing. I guess part of the reason I'm a Christian is because it is very comforting to think that Christ loves me for who I am, which realizing that I'm gay has actually strengthened my faith. And, it encourages me to help out with people that are in need. I go every few sundays a month to hand out food to the homeless downtown, which I wouldn't feel as inclined to do so if I had no religious beliefs. I've been wondering why someone wouldn't pick a faith and believe in it. So, this is a question directed towards atheists, but what has caused you to decide that you don't have any religious beliefs? I've never met an atheist before, so I don't really understand the beliefs.

 

The Free Will Argument for the Christian God doesn't make sense because they believe in miracles. Thus, at least in some cases, their God is actively interfering in the world.

If little six year old Bobby survives his cancer, many Christians will attribute it to a miracle. No, it would have nothing to do with modern medical science or the doctors who treated him, their deity swooped in to save him. On the other hand, little four year old Jessica down in the next room isn't so lucky. She dies of the same type of cancer. No one blames their God for not saving Jessica in the same way their God saved Bobby, and no one questions why their God would prefer to save Bobby over Jessica.

In another scenario, a woman - let's call her Rachel - is about to be brutally raped. However, before her would be rapist can proceed someone just happens to be wandering by and hears Rachel's screams and comes to help. The would be rapist is captured, placed on trial, and goes to prison. Rachel claims that God is responsible for her being saved from being raped, because he guided the guy who saved her to her just in time. It couldn't just be dumb luck, could it? Imagine all the other people who are raped, who aren't saved by Rachel's God. Imagine had she been raped, would that mean her God wanted her to be raped since he didn't save her?

It is questions like this where the Free Will Argument most often shows up. Let's take a moment to take this logic at face value. Let's assume that Rachel has been raped; that would mean that their God didn't want to intervene because he wanted to protect the free will of the rapist. This of course, totally disregards the free will of Rachel who doesn't want to be raped. Since their God is omnipresent it also means that he's standing right there watching the rape unfold and actively doing nothing.

Imagine standing somewhere and watching someone be raped and doing nothing because you didn't want to interfere with the free will of the rapist. This is exactly what their God is doing - they believe that he has the power to intervene but is actively choosing not too.

At this point this is where someone usually speaks up and goes, "...but it's all part of God's plan!" To which I would respond with: If their God has a plan for humanity it means that he's actively interfering with our free will. Also, if their God has a plan and that plan involves Rachel getting raped, then something is incredibly wrong with this picture. It would also lead me to believe that their God is not as benevolent as they like to imagine.

 

First of all, how I became an atheist. This is a personal story. Every atheist has a different journey just like every theist has a different one.

I used to be a Christian. I really loved God, I believed in him, I wanted to serve him. However, I ended up not going to church for some months because I wasn't well. Without even noticing it, I slowly lost my faith.

When I realised that I no longer believed, I was scared. At first, I reacted by trying to become more devout (which is fairly common, I've since learned). That didn't work, though, and slowly I acknowledged that I had questions. With the help of a couple excellent Pagan friends, I was able to work past my fear and my questions, and accept that I was an atheist. After some thinking and some talking and some research, I decided that I didn't want to try and be a Christian again either. The religion no longer made sense to me and I knew that I, personally, would now live better without it.

Secondly, why I remain an atheist. This is a much more general story. Lots of atheists hold this view.

I have not seen sufficient evidence for any gods that would make me believe in them. Very simple.

Finally, one small part my worldview. This is back to being personal.

The world is beautiful. Incredible. Awesome. The forces which have shaped our universe fill me with wonder, and that wonder is enhanced by the knowledge that they are natural rather than created. I look at a mountain and I see not just the beauty of the mountain but the power of tectonic plates. I look at a sunset and see not just the beauty of the sunset but the product of both the electromagnetic spectrum, the water cycle, the atmosphere, and the evolution of my sense of sight. I find it amazing that we can understand these processes and even one day replicate them.

This is not something confined to atheists, by any measure, but I include it because you talked about how the beauty of the world contributes to your belief in God.

Well explained. In addition, their god, being omnipotent, could stop some evils without ever interfering with people. Take the Boston Bombings. God could have allowed the bombers to plant their bombs, and then he could have defused them before they exploded and hurt people. This would not have involved changing the minds of the bombers, so they would have still had free will. It would have involved interfering with other physical items, which he is clearly willing to do because of miracles.

But it didn't happen that way. Which points to there being no god which is both all-loving and all-powerful.

In addition to the addition, sometimes interfering with free will is the moral thing to do. If you see someone about to rape a child, you will stop them -- their free will is less important than the well-being of the child.

 

I dont think that anything ever particularly caused me to have non-belief in a god or gods.
Its like me asking you what caused you to disbelieve that something silly like the Easter Bunny ever existed. Its just evident. There is no real evidence beyond fairytales pointing to the theory that the Easter Bunny exists, so why should you believe that he exists?

I'm really interested to know what your opinion is... why should I believe? Can you point me to some evidence? Please, go ahead and try and convert me. I think it would be interesting for you to try and show me your side of things.

 

I believe there could be a god, and there's probably something beyond us out there, but it's impossible to know anything about it... so why even care, honestly? If there is a god in the form of the Ahbramaic we're all fucked. Regarding those religions (mainly Islam and Christianity), it's petty how they make you try to make guilty by original sin.. then there's their "morals" on sexuality, how can natural instincts be bad...ever? And then they try to make you get scared by hell... but after death we're dead! We humans made up an afterlife so we can cope with the death of our loves ones.

Though I'm Agnostic-Atheist/Pantheist,, but I've been liking Paganism for a while now... I think I'm might join Asatru or Druidism