The Debate on God

I'm sure I'm echoing someone else's sentiment in saying that I've never seen any compelling evidence for God, the afterlife, eternal souls, ghosts, the Loch Ness monster, Sasquatch, unicorns, Chupacabra, aliens, or the 2013 Houston Astros' chances of competing in the World Series. I'll be skeptical of all those things until and unless compelling evidence is presented to me, at which point I would certainly reconsider my position.

If I'm being completely honest, however, the thought of anything existing beyond the natural universe is silly to me. I never attach any significance to supernatural phenomena because I feel rather strongly that such phenomena is always explainable through reason. It's incredibly unlikely that there's anything more to life beyond our own existence, so even on the way, way, way off chance that there exists a god, worshiping it would be a waste of my time.

 

Religion just doesn't make sense, at all.

 

You see with that argument I have to respond with this: What if God doesn't give a damn? Sure, he could be loving but he can also be terribly angry (evil if you prefer, and I know some of you do). Seriously, he could be doing other stuff you know? If I was God I sure as heck wouldn't want to be constantly babysitting a bunch of flesh and bones from every single little disaster that afflicts them.

Sorry to say but disasters, war and any other bad things are a part of life. They are what make you who you are, my sister for instance has chronic illness and yes it has been taxing on her but it has made who she is: a tough and strong person. Even those who don't believe in any faith can agree to this, its just the universe at work not God making such disasters.

 

I find it hard to disbelieve in God, just simply because I don't know what life is about...and why do we die, and I didn't choose to be born....and religion gives a strong context for what life...could be?...

But people who are not religious seem content to say and one day you randomly drop dead, and that is it...you may get hit by a bus, you may become the president before dying...but whatever it maybe - that is it...you are done. You become what you were before you were born. Then why is suicide a bad thing?...there is a lot of miserable existences out there, why not just die.

I find it very difficult to see a point in that perspective. I hear you all on that 'there is no evidence'..but you know what, life to me is full of uncertainties, and if you are suggesting that you don't do something unless you are certain, then in my world there is very little to do, because most things involve trying and hoping it will turn out for the best.

Science is built on a lot of 'theories' that may turn out wrong..or was close enough but not quiet, but you theorize based on the observations and patterns....and to me religion seems to be unto something...

A lot of things in life are not what I want it to be, or what I persume it to be, we live on the expense of a lot of other creatures that live only to serve us....why is it so far off that there is a higher creature who expects the same of us....but then again it is a matter of...faith lol.

 

Personally I believe that humanity invented god in order to understand the world around them. Early man didn't have the scientific knowledge we have now and so created the idea of god to explain things.

That said, I believe that there could be a divine being. But if there is, it is so far above human minds that there is no way we could truly comprehend it. And so those who believe in a religion, faith or spiritual path rely on the words and names that humans have created. I believe that the various deities that have been worshipped throughout the ages exist in so far as human belief causes them to exist for the people who believe in them.

For example, my spiritual path is Norse heathen. I follow the gods of the Norse pantheon, especially Thor. But, my "religion" has little impact on my life. Rather, my philosophy has more impact on the way in which I live. My philosophy is my own. It's sort of a hybrid of Taoism and Buddhism with a bit of Jedi and Dudeist thrown in to the mix.

 

I don't think that something being impermanent makes it valueless. Often it's the very impermanence of a thing that gives it its full beauty. Life isn't inherently good or bad, it just is. But we can use the life we have and make it good. That's the tragedy of suicide, the person killing themselves is throwing away their ability to make their own life, and the world around them, better.

One day, I will die. I may cease to exist at that point. Or I may continue to exist. If I continue to exist, I will continue to change. As time wears on, I will change so much that I will no longer be recognizable as myself. Why would that person care about the life I'm living now?

Or I may continue to exist, but outside of time. In which case one of the primary factors in influencing who I am, temporality, will no longer be present. Will I be recognizable as me without something so central to who I am?

All of this is speculation. All I do know is that I am alive right now, and I'd rather that my experience of living be enjoyable than not happen at all.

 

I tend to believe in some higher power, like the previous poster, Dublin Boy and Jume before him. I dislike the word "supernatural" since lightning was once considered "supernatural". I prefer to think of things like the after-life as something I suspect of being real but don't know for sure or can't quite explain, yet. My own near death experience (I see someone else mentioned one as well) led me down a road from apathetic agnosticism towards personal certainty that there is something more out there. I became something of a seeker and actually study all manner of religions to see if I can piece anything together - commonality between them and so on. If I were not spiritual (will explain that below, briefly) I would, likely, be an atheist. I give very little heed or respect to tradition, being raised to be more secular and curious.

I defined myself as spiritual before and will explain that now. I believe that skepticism and spirituality are aspects that are inherent brain function. Since this becomes problematic when people are allowed to come up with their own definitions to the word "spiritual" for the sake of the point I am making I will define spirituality as irrational cognition (intuition, feeling, etc) and skepticism as rational cognition (logical, analytical, etc). I consider it a sort of Kinsey Scale, where most fall in the middle. Most (if Japan is any indication) are more skeptical.

I will point out that I am not complaining about science on the whole NDE thing. The science on NDE is rather light/unconvincing, from what I have read of it. That said, I realize it isn't the job of science to determine what doesn't exist and personal anecdotes aren't evidence. Would one assert that Leprechauns exist just because science hasn't dis-proven their existence? Of course not. But if I happen to have been whisked away to an alternate world where I befriend a Leprechaun whom I sometimes go and visit through a doorway that can only be opened by me when I am alone and can't be photographed or proven to be there, otherwise then little in the way of evidence beyond an absolute proof that I am wrong is going to convince me my evenings spent in this little green man's tiny house are fake (and any attempt to explain these experiences to you will sound like insanity).

 

Does your existence make any sense at all either? I think your answer is a cop out. Just because you cannot make sense of something doesnt mean you can automatically discredit it.

 

A rat will thrash about if it falls in water, trying to swim for the edge. It doesn't need hope of a hereafter to fight for it's life. I suspect we, as organisms, possess processes that make us driven to live, afterlife or none. We just rationalize them - the instinct is still there, though, beneath that. No matter how depressed a person gets, they will thrash about if a plastic bag is placed over their head just as readily as the man who isn't contemplating suicide. That was a bit of a dark example, but you do get the point. That said, I can get behind much of your thinking as I see things in a similar way too - even all your ellipses remind me of the way I often think to myself haha.

 

I believe that when we die we just dream, scientific studies have proven that when you die a hole bunch of dmt is naturally release by your body, dmt is the stuff that makes you dream. I have no idea how we got here tho lol.

 

I am an agnostic atheist. I don't personally believe that a god exists, but I don't think it's possible for us to know one way or the other.

 

I suppose I'd class myself as spiritual- I don't believe in any of the main religions, but I struggle to believe people are here one minute and gone the next. I have had too many 'coincidental' experiences to not believe in something. It may be just a coping mechanism, but it is comforting to think that the people I love will always be there.
I personally don't mind what someone believes in- it isn't my place to question something like that.

 

I believe in God, and there are things in my life that have made me to believe in him completely. I just wish all theist's and atheists would stop giving each other crap about it and just live peacefully. It also irks me how much alot of christians have stained God's reputation. It really hurts me when I see these types of arguments. :icon_sad:

 

atheist.

---------- Post added 14th Jun 2013 at 07:41 PM ----------

well honestly....being atheist.....and debating about it....does give good rep for debating skills ...same goes anybody else.

It's good to research things like science and religion and debunk one of the two.

DEbating about whether god is real is a personal thing but thats not to say its completely harmful

 

To me, it's just way more personal and deep than just debating. It's not something that can be explained. To each his own.

 

God can't be proven or disproven. Thats where it stands.

but honestly, with the right people.....debating can be a good thing...Not to go against one or the other but to see each other's point of view

 

I can't believe in some invisible man in the sky that always needs donations. Simple as it gets.

 

I believe in several things that some people don't, I am a believer in the supernatural. Ghosts for example, I have had several encounters with them. I also believe that extraterrestrials exist, not in the way some people are, but only because statistics clearly estimate that there are other civilizations out there.

I do believe (or want to believe) that there is something out there for us after we die, I don't want to believe that once we die, that's it, we're gone forever "poof" I believe in something similar to heaven and hell, I don't like the idea of terrible murders like Hitler getting into the same place, or heaven just because they "repent" for their sins.

I am technically, identified by everybody else, as a christian, but there are several HUGE flaws in the bible that I don't believe in, mainly because almost every human being in the world, under the rules of the bible, would go to hell. Plus it contradicts itself several times.
I may be "Christian" but I have never read the bible, or been baptized. A simple dunk in magical water can't "save you" I believe it's like, if you're a good person overall, you get into heaven, but if you're bad, you go to hell. And if you're neutral, I guess you'd go to purgatory for a little while.

 

I once read some Christian newsletter, and one of the questions that one of the readers asked was "Will I see my dogs in heaven?"

It said that while dogs may have souls, their soul dies with the dog, and they don't go to heaven or hell. So Christians even believe that you can just "poof" and be gone when you die.

 

Yeah, quite a few branches of Christianity don't claim an afterlife with certainty, which I think is the most sensible thing; we can't know anything beyond this life, so pretending we know the key to Heaven isn't exactly healthy or honest. And if Hitler or Stalin truly felt remorse for their actions, and saw the error of their ways, do they still deserve more torment beyond the internal grief caused by the realisation of the nature their actions?