Romney: Gay couples should have right to adopt

On the metatopic: In my opinion, politics are extremely important to discuss because they are so personal. As many of us know, politics are not just disagreements people have that are these out-there, esoteric things. They are convictions about upsides and downsides, benefits and costs (and how they are distributed) that have very real impacts on people's lives. Therefore it quickly becomes personal even if people aren't saying "you suck" and "your view sucks." If people believe that the politics being expressed hurt them or those they love, it is natural that we would see defensiveness and invective. I think it is especially important that we have a forum for political debate especially here, since we are so acutely aware of how politics affect us.

On the topic: I don't really care about flip-flops unless they are repeated in a short period of time and appear to have no motivation. I really think people should change their opinions over time, because that demonstrates they are open to information on the issues, and their hearts are not stone-cold.

At the time, as much as I believe that Mitt Romney regards me as less than human, I will at least be this charitable to him: I mostly agree with him on gun rights (except his support of an assault weapon ban).

 

You know when people say a word or words a lot and suddenly they stop sounding like words? This is happening with flip-flop.

 

<3

 

And here I was laughing at the national media for doing their best to not define this as a flip-flop.

Once again EC, you never fail to disappoint.

Please. The double standard that some of you are applying to this issue, and Obama himself, is not only laughable but it is embarrassing..I mean, I really am embarrassed for you.

Knock knock

Who's there?

Your credibility walking out the door.

Next.

 

Lol...I dont even know how to reply to the arrogant and self righteous douche-baggery that you are displaying right now.

 

Truth hurts doesn't it?

And that's all you got? Calling me a douche-bag for pointing out the obvious? Eh, I've been called worse..doesn't bother me...so flame away.

 

If I were an alienated conservative on in an LGBT space, I'd probably behave the same way.

The trick is just not to take anything personally that he says. He simply has fundamental disagreements on moral philosophy.

Still kind of finding it funny that whether or not Romney flip-flops is actually an issue. Not like something more worth talking about like the rest of his politics and how bad they are.

 

Well, it's not like Obama's policies have had a positive impact on America. In fact, it's been quite the opposite.

 

Like universally? Everything his administration has done?

I hate both parties nearly equally for varying reasons. Just because I think Romney is beneath scum doesn't mean I worship the ground Obama walks on by comparison. I'd have so much more respect for the Republican party if didn't collectively pander to the sickest elements of sexism and homophobia in the nation. I could get over my disagreements with his economic policies.

But I really do want to hear you say everything the Obama administration has done has been terrible.

 

Obviously some of the things Obama and his administration have accomplished have been solid. But by in large, he has had a definite negative impact on America.

---------- Post added 13th May 2012 at 09:52 PM ----------

I disagree with Romney's opinion on gays, but that doesn't mean he is ''scum'' or a bad person. There actually are a lot of great things Romney has done that no one likes talking about. It's not like he's a bad person for having an opinion on a particular subject. As I said in another post, he at least has been consistent on his stance in terms of gay marriage, which is more than what Obama can say.

And where do I start with what Obama has done wrong?

 

Hardly. Your opinion means less then nothing to me and I wasn't trying to "burn you" lol, just stating how you appear to the general public (bit of stretch I know but I feel very confident in it).

As for anything you say being truth? LOL, quite the comedian tonight aren't we. Your opinions aren't fact, they are your perceptions nothing more nothing less and I would hardly call them truths.

I don't really have a bias in this whole conversation, I am not American and I don't like Obama or any other candidate because I don't need to. Your bias however is clear and it evidently taints everything you read and type.

 

I humbly disagree. I think there are many topics about which reasonable people can disagree. There are a few where reasonable people cannot disagree. LGBT issues is one of them. Also, a single wrong-headed opinion earnestly held is just us being who we are. Having a whole suite of wrong-headed ones gets you to the point of being a person I consider very threatening.

As I have said before, I don't think consistency is a strength. Rightness is a strength.

I have railed against the political cowardice of the Democrats for a long time. I think he has always believed in LGBT rights along with most Democrats. It's just part of what I called the failed Democratic strategy of trying to appeal to the middle, failing at it, and just pissing off the base. But it's okay, the base keeps coming back. I think the power of the Right at this moment is that it's actually possible to piss them off enough that they really will punish the party. Liberal Democratic voters haven't sent the message enough to their politicians of choice that they will bolt or refuse to vote if they get hung out to try. The net result is that Democrats surrender on almost all of their principles, and the Republicans surrender on almost none of them.

In a thread where that's the topic. Or on my wall if you'd like to vent. I'm glad to listen. Just please don't assume anything about my politics.

 

Well..to borrow a phrase from you...my appearance to the "general public" means "less than nothing to me"

My beliefs are my beliefs..and I stand by them.

Certainly my views are from a conservative point of view...but I have also called out my own when I disagree with what they do...I don't try to shamelessly and embarrassingly try to prop them up when they are wrong or have acted in a blatant and silly political way.

 

Am I wrong in feeling this topic should be closed because the semi-attacking is happening again.....

 

All politics is an attack.

The thread should probably be closed because there's not really anywhere for it to go other than "look at Romney developing some lukewarm views on LGBT folks? How cute!"

 

But you do assume that because the majority of us are disagreeing with you (with very valid points), that we are somehow trying to "prop them up when they are wrong or have acted in a blatant and silly political way".

No one has said what Obama is doing with his opinions on gay marriage isn't a political move, its just not a flip flop. which is a stupid term and even stupider one to argue about.

 

Again, having an opinion on something does not make a person bad. My parents, friends and others don't believe in same sex marriage. Many other poster's families on this board probably don't believe in it, either. But that doesn't mean that my parents and theirs are bad people for having a belief. Ignorant? Maybe. Scum? Hardly.

I'm not advocating Romney's position and I disagree with it like I said. But I respect him because he has been consistent on it.

Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and attempt to think about everything wrong Obama has done. But just to name a few things off the top of my head that he has screwed up along with his administration: the economy, spending, the stimulus, and the Buffett Rule (which is just a waste of time).

 

Romney was for a state run health care system, then he was against it. That was called a flip flop.

Obama, was for gay-marriage, then he was against it, then he was for it...and that is called evolving...but not a flip flop.

Gotcha.

Oh yes, makes perfect sense.

 

I dont know anything about the healthcare system, nor do i remember it being brought up in this convo. so relevancy is 0. Adoption was brought up and is what was labeled a flip flop i believe.

Well if that's the case then yes it is a flip flop but from what i have read seen and heard, he was always against it and is only now for it.

care to offer some evidence to clear this up?

 

My point in bringing that up is that you can't sit and label Romney as a flip flopper and not brand Obama as the same.

But haven't you heard???

Romney evolved on that issue...this evolving business is all the rage now evidently.

Or is he not allowed to evolve on anything because he is a Republican?