Questions You've Always Wanted to Ask Atheists

You keep saying this, but if we take it that all action is meaningless why should we do away with ourselves right now, just continuing on is equally meaningless as an action as killing oneself so under this line of thought you have no more reason to do one than the other. The universe would equally not care at your continuing existence as it would not care about your existence ceasing.

Personally I do not mind what you choose to believe to help you get through your day, it is of little consequence to me. As for how I can live with myself "knowing" life is meaningless, I don't know that life is meaningless for a fact, I simply don't believe it does have some ultimate meaning as I haven't seen any convincing evidence to that effect as of yet. And if it is meaningless, that isn't something I can change, so I don't bother spending time wondering about things I can't change too much.

 

Ever since the Hyde Amendment has been into effect, no public tax dollars have went to abortion procedures. That's without saying there's a major stigma around the procedure that needs to be addressed, and that the government not funding it actually makes it more expensive for women who actually need it, but I think that's comparing apples to oranges.

 

I do not believe in an afterlife. I do not see that as closing my mind. I simply see it as acknowledging that I know of no life but this one. We are temporal beings in an indifferent universe and our life is the only guaranteed consciousness we have. I will not spend my life in the hope that there will be a great revelation at the end or in the belief that an omniscient being judges my worth for a final reckoning, because if none of that comes to pass then my life will have been spent in pursuit of a fruitless goal.

And that does not take hope, meaning or positivity away from me. Far from it, I believe life is so infinitely precious because it is all we have and will ever have. Every emotion, act of kindness or wrongness, every wasted moment and every piece of knowledge and self-fulfilment and every sensual pleasure is immeasurably valuable, because I know I will only experience it all so long as I live.

In his short essay The Myth of Sisyphus, Camus writes of how the natural absurdity of the world is not a proof of hopelessness or a spiritual prison, but a liberation if we choose to make it so:

It's liberating, but isolating. It renders the world absurd, but if you can believe in no higher power, that absurdity becomes freedom and that inherent meaninglessness becomes the most valuable path to find personal meaning and a common meaning amongst humans. Whatever good I can do is on my own accord. It isn't done out of fear of divine judgement, but merely because I don't know how else to find meaning.

And that doesn't seem hopeless to me at all. If I can have a life I feel is good and live with as much meaning and knowledge as possible, isn't that life valuable even if it is going to be forgotten one day and even if I will never be able to experience it again?

To quote Ronald Dworkin,

All of this can mean something. But that doesn't mean we will be around forever or that an external force has granted us that meaning.

 

Either way, killing oneself or not killing oneself, dying is an eventuality. Don't you think that there might be survival after death in some form? Like, as a ghost? Or reincarnated? The fundamental rule of science I've always understood is that energy cannot be created or destroyed it can only change form, which would suggest to me life after death in some form or another.

It's great that we can coexist, but man, don't you ever feel the need to reach out to something? Anything? When you look at yourself in the mirror every morning, or see a pair of shoes hanging over a telephone wire or gaze at the stars of the universe you hold in such high regard, don't you ever ask yourself "Where the hell does it all come from? Where is it all going?" And after that, that most terrible of questions: Why?

 

No, I set my own purpose and meaning. Not the same thing as destiny. I don't believe in 'destiny' in the literal/mystical 'this was meant to be' sense.

On the scale of the universe, you're quite correct. And I don't ever forget it Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Not believing in a 'higher power' or that life has some purpose or meaning is not the same as having no beliefs. I believe in all kinds of things. I just don't believe that there is any kind of supernatural cosmic basis for them.

And I am totally meaningless on the cosmic scale - as mentioned above, it doesn't bother me at all.

Todd

 

You indulge yourself in the same sort of insane circular logic that Christians do!

Believe in Christ and be saved.
Evangelize belief so others may be saved.
Not evangelizing is a path to damnation.
Not believing in Christ is a path to damnation.
So evangelize your belief in Christ lest the unbelievers suffer the consequences.
And remember to accept Christ, or else.

Only with you guys it's more like this:

There is no god or gods or afterlife.
My life is meaningless and that's okay.
Life is meaningless because there's no god or gods or afterlife.
I believe everything is meaningless but I'm okay with that.
I'm okay with that because there is no god or ultimate plan and that's okay.

Oh man, I need a drink.

 

Difference: Abortion can be used the ensure the health of a living person (and no, I'm not willing to turn this into a debate about abortion; start your own thread for that). Your wish to see a particular religion represented in government does not.


For the record, I'd be okay with privately funded depictions of Christianity being placed in government-owned areas. Provided of course that no Christians (or any other religious person) are allowed to raise objections when a depiction of a religion other than their own is also represented (for example: Oklahoma City Monument - THE SATANIC TEMPLE DETROIT).

 

While the concept of conservation of energy/mass is a fundamental law in our present understanding of physics, I think you are incorrectly extrapolating that to a proof of non-destructible consciousness. Our understanding of consciousness is far from complete presently but it is possible that consciousness is simply an emergent phenomenon from electro-chemical interactions within our brains. Consciousness only exists as some complex interaction of said chemicals and electrical impulses, not as something separate unto itself. So in death the chemicals and electrons cease acting in such a way as to produce consciousness. The consciousness ceases to be but the energy and matter to which the law of conservation of energy applies continue to exist as we would expect. Similar to how when a star goes supernova the star itself as a burning engine of fusion ceases to be, but the constituent atoms of the star continue to exist. Just because the constituent parts exist doesn't mean necessarily that the thing itself remains.

Now as I said we are not sure precisely about the exact nature of consciousness but the above is a possible scenario whereby our present understanding of physics does not necessitate some eternal consciousness.

As for the question of why, I am a student so I am rather busy most of the time and have to spend more time thinking about financial and economic equations than the meaning of the universe. When I do think of why the universe exists I tend to view it as a rather moot question. Questions of why are not really the sort of thing that can be answered with empirical methods and personally I think trying to extrapolate a human conceived notion to the universe at large is likely to be fruitless. Evolving as we did as social creatures it made a great deal of sense for us to have the faculties to discern others motives and reasons for doing things. Why the caveman down the river would offer me food. Maybe he was trying to scout out my abode and size me up so he could come in the night and kill me to steal my Cavelady, maybe he was just nice a guy. But being able to attach motives and reasons to the actions of others lets me interact more profitably with other people to benefit myself/ensure my survival in the caveman analogy. However when we try and ask questions like "why does the sun shine" (note: I view this as a question of purpose, entirely different than the fact it generates light via hydrogen fusion, I would call that an answer to a how question ie: "how the sun shines") we run into problems because the concept of a purpose behind actions is something that is likely unique to conscious and sapient creatures, thus we won't find such reasons for why the sun shines or the universe exists as they are inanimate objects that simply are. But that is just my view of the situation.

 

My life isn't meaningless. I don't need an afterlife to believe my life has meaning. I matter to my kids. So my life is not meaningless.
And I believe in ghosts...so is that a type of afterlife? I have no idea...

I have a logical mind, and religion and the belief in gods makes no sense to me. Fighting in the name of a god makes even less.

And I believe in the right of everyone to decide for themselves what they believe and I don't get a say in that. One of my kids attends church regularly and I have no problem with that. Each to their own.

 

Nope, nope. Not going any further. Throwing out the white flag and heading for the vodka.

You're as stubborn as Christians, I'll give you that. Citing science like the bible and shit.

Nope, time for a large vodka and tonic and TV.

 

It still goes both ways.The main point I am trying to make d If anyone in general could oppose paying taxes for something they personally opposed the government would be a total mess. We are all forced into putting money into stuff we personally oppose all the time.

 

What, you get to bring scientific laws into your arguments to support your views but all of a sudden its not kosher when I do it? And I would hardly say I am citing science as an infallible source of perfect knowledge like a holy text would claim to be, all I am saying is that it is giving us a possible explanation for the world we experience around us and one for which we would seem to have the most compelling empirical evidence.

Nonetheless, do be sure to enjoy your drink.

 

Nope, not doing this. Especially not with a 19 year old who's in college. No, no way. The professors told you there's no god and sold you a bunch of overpriced books with some fancy words in them. The bible is a book much like that, as is any religious text. I'm just saying there could be... no, not gonna do it, need something stronger than vodka. Gonna go find some Everclear.

 

Will you stop rambling and leave already?

 

Why are you so offended that people are able to think for themselves? I don't object to you choosing to believe in a god, shouldn't I get the same courtesy for choosing not to?
And I'm not some kid in college...I'm older than you with a whole lot more life experience, good and bad...

 

I was talking to LibertyValance, the one with the Canadian mood. I'm not so much offended as I am shocked and depressed by how hopeless you all make life seem.

 

Oh, come on now. For starters I will agree with you that textbooks are rather overpriced, but I study Economics and Finance so I can assure you discussions about the existence of God are not what professors are discussing with us students in Econometric Statistics classes. I do hope you are not attempting to reference my age in an ad hominem attack, you likely would not appreciate it if someone like AKTodd dismissed all of your arguments simply because you were merely 28 without addressing the arguments themselves. Nonetheless though I shall simply assume that you are weary of discussing this topic this evening as it seems you have been active discussing with other members in this thread for quite some time now. Once again, do be sure to enjoy your drink, and hopefully you find something good on the television.

 

After so many people explaining why they do not find life hopeless, not despite, but because of their beliefs or the lack thereof, I'm quite surprised this is all you can take away from this discussion.

 

No, it's just that, I know what it is to be 19. I'm jealous, if anything. It just makes me sad that all atheists want to do is boil everything down to numbers and molecules and say that this is the only life. It's an unfair presumption, so to all of you I say: Your world is cold, calculating and cruel. I don't want to be a part of your world.

As for the person who said I'm rambling? I don't know a good insult to atheists so I'm just gonna say: "When you die, nothing happens. Ha-ha."

 

Do atheist have an atheist church?