my story

That's great news, really happy to hear that.

 

Did he by any chance provide you with these "scholarly articles"?

That sounds very manipulative of him - "you can do it but just know that it can make me worse."

I would wonder whether these articles exist to be honest.

I think other have already voiced their concerns about the way he manipulates you. It's a recurring theme and you shouldn't let it continue.

You need to proceed as planned and do this for you. You also need to start laying down some ultimatums yourself - I think he needs to either start opening up about your relationship or else start getting some help. He cannot continue with this inertia though if this is to work. As others have said, he can't expect you to keep your love life in this bubble for ever.

It's reasonable to give somebody time to adjust, but they need to show that they are taking that time and using it to try and make changes or bring about a workavle compromise.

You've give him plenty of time already and he refuses to make any significant changes.

Also, as for the mother thing, I know it's a dangerous one to involve yourself in but he really needs to grow up and stand up to her. That nonsense about showing the fridge on Skype is so absurd and smothering. He needs to remind her she's a grown man and independent.

It may well be the two issues are linked and he won't be able to do something he fears she'll disapprove of unless he learns how to stand up to the woman first.

 

So I'm going to go out on a limb by doing two things in this response: I'm going to assume what is eating up your BF about coming out and assume that in his mind, he is not trying to emotionally manipulate / coerce you.

What's eating him up: your bf seems to come from an elitist / type-A background. descriptions of his family's success, his expectations of himself when it comes to looks and work, and the view of you as being a "tier" above the rest looks-wise lead me to this conclusion. i could explain in greater detail, but that would be a small book. suffice it to say, i grew up with people like this my whole life.

in this environment, the one thing that dominates most of the lives of these folks is legacy. you're expected to do everything in order to carry forward the family name both literally (if u're the eldest male) and figuratively, in terms of social standing. the idea of an "individual" and "individual choices" takes a back seat. evidence of this includes the fact that he has basically already came out to his parents by saying he won't have a traditional family and they have basically said that they will not tolerate that by saying that they want him to move back to find a woman, even if he gives up work for a while.

people in this environment often are aware of how "messed up" this all is, especially those that don't inherently fit in, like those who are not total heteros. from what i've witnessed, these families can and will disown those that don't fall in line. ask your bf if he knows any peers with whom he has grown up that have come out. are any of the children of his parents' friends openly gay?

Coming out in these circumstances seems to these folks like giving up their entire world, and that can seem tantamount to suicide.

Why he doesn't see this as emotional manipulation. A trait amongst the overly driven type-A perfectionist crowd is that "thought" is often polarized, i.e. "black or white thinking." during one argument, your bf said, "just sit down, make a decision, and then pursue it." that struck me as classic type-A reasoning. it is very black-and-white and it allows the person full control over his life. at least it allows them to feel that way. likewise, he also keeps treating the decision to come out as being separate - one for you and one for him. to him this in fact may seem like the opposite of emotional manipulation. conflating both of your decisions to come out would allow you to call the shot on when he has to come out.

his way of thinking is very different and this is why it seems u two tug in opposite directions. the fact that you're in california makes very little difference. he in many ways exists in europe. his family wants him to move back and perhaps he thinks that in the end, that is where he will have to go.

one irony is that while he refuses to allow your decisions to influence his decisions, he does allow his family's decisions to influence his. the converse of this argument is -- will he see you as his family, allowing you to influence his decisions in the same way?

i am of the view that families are systems in that the components cannot operate in isolation. can he see you as part of his family? as part of that group that gets to say how his life goes?

I think he wants you to be. this is why he got a place near you, this is why he's living with you.

I am a cynic, but I don't deny the power of love. This really is your first real relationship. You're going to want to experiment further. That's just natural. You already tried experimenting and he already freaked out and has barred it. Why should he come out (a decision which is irrevocable and would cost him his world) when you might just run off with someone else, if not now, for sure in 5 - 10 yrs (b/c he will be too ugly to be loveable then)?

my pt in writing this is to add some context as to why your bf might be acting the way he has been.... I could be totally off base. These are my 2 cents given how the situation seems to me from reading.

 

Alex,

Hey, it's been a while, wondering how things are going? Hope you are doing well, let us know....

 

Yep -- also wondering and hoping things are going well.

 

I would say that you need to wait until you feel fully ready. It's not like you're on a schedule here. That said, I also think that if you want to come out and are just not doing it for fear he will freak out and leave you...eventually that's going to breed resentment (it may be doing so already) and eventually that resentment will start to have a negative impact on your relationship. Possibly to the point of ending it anyway. So, again, I'd say you need to wait until you feel fully ready. And maybe you can wait a bit longer than that for your boyfriends sake if he appears to be moving toward coming out or being supportive of you doing so. But I don't think it's a viable option to just stay in the closet forever because he gets the screaming heeby-jeebies at the thought of someone knowing about you.

Speaking as someone who's been in several relationships, with the current one coming up on 18yrs and counting...: Everyone is irrational about some things sometime. And everyone has habits that drive their other half up the freaking wall. For some of them you can talk it out and negotiate a change in behavior. For others you may be able to reach a compromise you can both live with. And for some you just kind of have to grit your teeth and bear it because you love them and the positives of having them in your life outweigh the negatives of what it really just an annoying habit. Which isn't to say you can't give them grief about it when they do it. But you both know that you're not going to let it actually drive you apart - because you love each other too much.

Again, speaking from experience here, both in relationships and from having some rather esoteric interests that neither my partner nor my non-online friends share:

As long as there is mutual respect and acceptance you're good. As long as your BF and your friends can treat each other with respect and acceptance of the fact that people are different and that it's possible to like someone as a person even if they are not a clone of yourself - they should be able to get along OK.

My partner and I have things we like to do together, either just as a couple or with other friends. Other times, we will do things alone or go solo with friends who share an interest that one of us has that the other doesn't. We're a couple, but not joined at the hip 24/7.

You may find that you can do things as a couple with your friends for some activities, while be apart for others. And that's Ok.

Hope this helps,

Todd

 

Hey again Alex. It's Pluvia, just got a name change.

Anyway the pattern that you keep going through is happening again. Look at this I wrote in July (I bolded the most relevant parts):

Notice that's what's happening again? You've gone through this cycle repeatedly. You want to come out but then you convince yourself not to, be it by saying you're too busy, or life is good right now, or just by listening to something he said. You have problems about being in the closet, it's eating away at you you say, but.. you're not doing anything about it. Everyone comes out in their own time of course, but you've been living a double life for almost 3 years now and it is causing problems for you. But, again, you're not doing anything about it. The same problems keep on happening over and over again, and they will continue to happen over and over again, except the more time that passes the worse they'll become. If you don't do anything about it nothing is going to change.

Also this:

What happened to telling your mum? You seemed like you were going to just a few weeks ago.

 

Hi, new member here. I just joined today to write you this message. It took me a few days to read your thread, nonetheless I found it quite interesting. It was as if it was a soap opera. My favorite parts of this thread included you posting your texts and calling your boyfriend "...Baby." I love the way couples have those terms of endearment towards one another, it's so beautiful. I've noticed that you haven't posted on here since the end of august. I hope everything is fine between you and your boyfriend. I would love to hear an update on the situation. I tend to live vicariously, hopefully that will end and I can soon move on with my life and stop being a couch potato.
Best Wishes

 

Yeah, an update would be really great. Hope everything is going well!

 

yeah you are right and you have true feelings.

 

Man good news all round then. Every update is good, it's good to hear from you again.

 

Anything new happened since your last post?

 

I totally did not read 35 pages in one go. It took me a whole day, though. Yeah, I'm a banana!!!!(!)


Anyway, my impression is that both of you have really progressed with your lives. I congratulate you on that. You have a bright future together.


I can only comment on the mother problem. And that is a problem. I have a couple of Italian acquaintances/friends and their mothers are exactly as you described his. They are manipulative, bitchy, jealous and emotionally abusive. No wonder there are so many jokes about Italian mothers on the Internet. The one that I know is that when you marry an Italian guy you also marry his mother. It's sad but it's also true. :***:

In the future, as he's moving away from his prime age the pressure to get a wife from his family and especially from his mother will increase tenfold if not more. You should expect that because it might blow up into your face if you're not ready.

One solution to that problem could be him coming out to his family, which might be too emotionally scarring for both of you, depending on how close he is to them. Another possibility is to try and come out together to a close group of your friends whom you trust. That way both of you will have additional emotional support from outside. It might even give him courage to finally stand up for himself. I'm terribly sorry I can't give you any more ideas on that. You'll just have to somehow wean him off his mother's control.

I send my best wishes to you guys.

Cheers! (*hug*)