Men for sex, women for love?

I agree with the user above me. I think that ultimately, your orientation is determined by sexual attraction. If you feel sexual attraction to a gender, I think that you're capable of falling in love with someone of that gender: if you don't believe that, I think you're either denying yourself the experience or you have to get used to the idea of loving someone of the same gender as you since our heteronormative society can make that hard to imagine.

I once thought that I was only capable of loving men but that I only felt sexual attraction towards women. As time went on, it turned out that that belief was just a form of denial and now I can actually picture myself being romantically involved with a woman. Because of this, I do not believe that you can romantically be attracted to someone if you feel no sexual attraction. As the poster above me has said already: the 'romantic' attraction that you feel is more likely deep platonic attraction.

 

CameOutSwinging - "Men for sex, women for love" is most commonly experienced by bisexual men who are in positive long-term relationships with women. Essentially, they get their emotional needs met by their wives or girlfriends and they get the majority (or sometimes, all) of their sexual needs met by men. They know they're not gay because they don't think of men in a romantic way.

I've always found this compartmentalization of love and sex to be intriguing. Why separate them when the penultimate human connection happens when they are brought together?

After many years of carefully listening to these men, as well as their wives and girlfriends, I've puzzled out the root cause of the split: sexual orientation is biological while romance is learned. (A thread that includes my explanation of how and why romance is learned, is here.)

The way I see it, there are four layers of interior walls that keep men like you from joyfully unifying love and sex:

First, you are already emotionally committed to a woman.

Second, most women are naturally (and vastly) more skilled than most men when it comes to opening and deepening emotional connections.

Third, you have been trained from birth to want a fairy-tale romantic connection with a woman. Although this paradigm is learned, it can feel so powerful as to seem innate. The closest, similarly-powerful beliefs are religious. This means that, breaking out of one's romantic training can be just as difficult as breaking out of one's religious training. For some, it may be impossible.

Fourth, you have consciously and subconsciously shut down the possibility of a life-changing romantic connection with a man because, deep down, the idea repulses you. That is not the kind of man you ever wanted to be.

As a rule, compartmentalized men don't break out of their split lives of their own free will. A break generally happens in only two life-changing ways: either they (quite unexpectedly) fall in love with a man they originally met through a hook-up, or, their female love interest leaves them. For this latter group, they are left to explore on their own. A great many continue to live a compartmentalized life, while a minority slowly open themselves up to connections with men. In time, those men come to realize that unifying sex and love with another man is what they really want.

For you, as someone who has been struggling for some time, my suggestion would be to work on each of the four walls. Awareness is the first step, then experimentation - with a good dose of challenging yourself. The ability to let go of your fears and anxieties and just experience emotionally connecting to other men, even in a platonic way, would be a good start.

I can be more specific about how to do that, and new ways of seeing what you're capable of experiencing, but that would be another post and this one is already too long.

 

Nerdbrain - You've had decades of straight training, cemented by multiple positive experiences with women. It's completely understandable how changing your focus now would be so difficult. Don't be too hard on yourself. Perhaps you've over-challenged yourself by expecting too much too soon. I suggest taking a more incremental approach.

We learn about romance as young kids by watching others. These days, that's mostly done through movies and television. Have you watched any good man-to-man romance films? If not, some binge-watching might be in order. "Shelter","Beautiful Thing","The Way He Looks","Latter Days","Summer Storm","My Beautiful Laundrette" and "Weekend" are some of the best.

Another way to become more comfortable with men is to develop more friendships. You live in a place with lots of opportunities. Have you reviewed the list of support groups at the LGBT Center? I believe there is one for married/once married men. Have you checked out the many bi and gay groups on Meet-Up? That's a great thing to do because you can do activities you already enjoy, but with men who just happen to be attracted to other men.

Getting comfortable in your own not-straight skin, in a social way, is not an overnight transition. It takes time. Each new person you meet and each new event you attend is one small step toward opening yourself up to emotional connections with men.

What you will eventually learn is that, connections and relationships with men are more similar to connections and relationships with women than they're different. The things you do, the things you talk about, how you spend your time...it's all very every-day stuff.

Do any of these suggestions sound like things you'd be open to do?

 

In many ways it takes more faith to be an atheist ... what if you are wrong? ... perhaps you do have faith after all in places you aren't recognizing or sharing with us...

As for developing a spiritual self that includes gayness and enables one to have some faith in a positive worldview ... perhaps there are some Buddhist / meditation gay meetups in NYC? I definitely have an Eastern bent in me, so to speak.

 

I actually feel the same way you do which is why I left a ? for my sexuality. I believe I'm straight though because I cannot feel any romance for guys.

 

This has been my experience coming out to myself. I brushed off my sexual attraction to men as just sex. When I would fantasize my orgasms were 100x more intense about men. As I came here an slowly accepted myself, I started to have romantic fantasies about men, and they were also way more intense and real than those about women. Six months ago I would have not believed I was capable of feeling this way but i was in deep denial.

---------- Post added 21st Nov 2016 at 06:30 AM ----------

I felt that way too, but it slowly fading away as I accept myself more and more. My fantasies are becoming more about being with a guy romantically vs just having sex. I still love looking at women on the street, but I think I am attracted to their femininity the way many gay men are.

Have you always had gay fantasies? Have you ever had straight ones?

---------- Post added 21st Nov 2016 at 06:38 AM ----------

I am just beginning to date- I wanted to be very comfortable with my sexuality. If I just jumped into sex a few months ago I think I would have withdrawn even more. And if being gay were just about sex, it wouldn't be worth it to me. Now that I feel its about intimacy, I am much more comfortable about it.

If you're not budging is it possible that it is just a fantasy? During this coming out process I read a lot about porn addictions, HOCD and other things that have confused straight guys.

I took a break from porn and masturbation. I was secretly hoping it would turn out I was not gay but stepping away from the sex part made me get more in touch with the full aspects of being gay. I began to just feel good about it. But that's not everyone's experience.

Recently there was a poster here who went out, experimented with being gay- not just a few encounters but dating, having a boyfriend, and decided he was straight. In that case his therapist warned him he had OCD, but he had to find out for himself.

 

Nerdbrain,
It was me findingjoy was referring to earlier. I assume you considered the fact you may be bisexual?
You say you fantisise about bottoming, without being too crude about it, does it arouse you from a standing start. that is to say you think about it and it gives you an erection?

For me i have thought about it (bottoming) a lot but i kind of realised that the number of times i had thought about it or it had come to mind, it had never gotten me aroused or made me hard. I find it hard to think of without wincing or grimacing.

I still think there is a shame element to it for lots of people and that has to play a role in it for you.

 

I think that you're right about your assertion that you're not suffering from HOCD, because if your gay thoughts were caused by HOCD, you wouldn't desire or lust after them indeed.
Shame can be a bitch. Give it time to fade away while simultaneously workings towards self acceptance. It's good that you've started reading that book!

 

I guess its difficult to differentiate and understand what is real sexual fantasy, and intrusive sexual thought, and what is genuine real sexual desire. I've read coming out of shame before and found it a little too pseudo-intellectual for my liking.

I think all you can do is take steps forward, and have an experiment with a guy, am sure you will soon know if you like it or not in reality. It seems you are stuck until you do try it. it really boils down to whether or not you really desire it, want it and can't live your life without trying it. As i say when it comes to mind for me i call it an intrusive thought as it makes me grit my teeth, or wince and doesn't arouse me.

 

Weird and possible irrelevant question: Are you turned on by men specifically or just by the thought/fantasy of bottoming (ie the act itself)

Just asking to be sure since bottoming itself can be done with a woman using strap ons etc.

Sorry if this isn't important to the discussion, I just wanted to ask since you talk about being attracted to bottoming but never about being attracted to men in general.

I'll shut up now...

 

I followed the link to learn about the book and somehow Joyful Gay Sex: The Ultimate Pleasure Guide appeared in my shopping cart a few clicks later. Thanks for sharing

 

Ok,
I am no an expert on this, but if I were you I'd read up on the effects of porn on sexual tastes. There's lots of sites out there ( I don't think we're allowed to list them?) but from what I read when I was trying to sort out my sexuality, porn/masturbation fantasies are more way intense then "real" partner sex to the point where men lose interest in their sex partners.

There are cases of straight guys getting addicted/ getting off on all sorts porn. A common progression is lesbian> shemale> gay porn.

There are also reverse cases, men and women who identify as gay starting to watch straight porn.

Have you considered taking a porn and masturbation break?

---------- Post added 27th Nov 2016 at 08:59 PM ----------

I definitely had and probably still have a shame element. I considered ocd but even when I was denial the thought of being bottomed, or giving a guy fellatio made me got me aroused.

So what led you to seek out gay relationships?

 

Good question. It was a combination of a few things. I had spoken to many people about my sexuality over the years, with varying people saying I should just go and try it out. The first step for me was going to a gay bar and being propositioned by a guy. I was like no way am I doing that. That was a few years ago. I decided then that it wasn't for me.

Fast forward a few years and my depression kept coming back and I thought it was what would make me happy. I thought every time I told someone I was gay it would make me accept myself but I never could. I came out and got myself a boyfriend - but I found that I wasn't able to be with a guy sexually and I didn't really like it in real life. Penises just didn't feel right and kissing a guy just felt awkward, and masculine. It's difficult to say because I was totally convinced that I was gay, that it would just make me happy but it didn't. Even with my boyfriend I found myself looking at women in nightclubs and wanting to be with them (crazy I know). I also found people's stories different to mine many gay people I spoke to said a) being with a women had made them physically sick or b) that they had to think of a guy whilst being with a women or c) they had known from an early age. None of that clicked with me as I'd grown up fantasising about women and having sex with them , have been with quite a few women quite happily and quite a lot of my fantasises involved women. Throughout all this I was still talking to my therapist about things and he had said that he was convinced I had Ocd as I had other traits and it was unlikely that a gay man would grow up fantasising about women, nor would be able to be aroused by a women (a generalisation I know)....

 

hello from another NYC person. Your situation sounds challenging but certainly not insurmountable! Perhaps you need more time or perhaps some type of triad or poly relationship could work for you where you are in a relationship with a woman and a man together...that may sound very 60s commune type thing but it happens these days as well. do you like cuddling or kissing men at all or do you just desire to bottom? If you need a friend to talk to or an occasional Top in NYC feel free to say hello!

 

That's really deep. I like that.
As for the OP, you might consider researching bisexuality, bisexual heteroromantic, and bisexual homoromantic orientations. If you are looking for a label you may find one there. It is completely possible to be only romantically attracted to one sex and only sexually attracted to another. You could be Homosexual Heteroromantic, or Heteroromantic Homosexual.

 

I was waiting for someone to suggest this. It is exactly what I was thinking when reading the op.