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Identity VS. Actions

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by BiBoyToy, Apr 9, 2021.

  1. BiBoyToy

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    What do you think about people that say, "I'm straight, but..."

    For example, a guy saying, "I'm straight, but I like giving men oral."

    I've seen people say things like this quite a bit on the internet. I also personally know a few girls that have said, "I'm straight, but I like making out with girls."

    I'm not sure what to make of this.

    Thoughts?
     
    #1 BiBoyToy, Apr 9, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  2. BiGemini87

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    I think if someone says they're straight, then that's their call. It could be a genuine thing; they might like doing those things, but if they don't feel any actual sexual/romantic attraction to the person (or people) they're doing it with, then there's no indication that they're anything other than straight. Perhaps not 100% straight, but straight nonetheless.

    And even if they do experience attraction, it's best to let them decide what to label themselves. If someone had tried to tell me I was anything other than straight before I was ready to come out, I'd likely have resisted it (which I actually did when a girl in HS kept trying to tell me I was a dyke, all because she had a crush on me--the latter I found out some years later).

    Basically, a person's actions are not the deciding factor alone in these circumstances. Otherwise no one of any orientation would be able to say they're one orientation or another had they not had the experience to substantiate it. :slight_smile: Just my two cents.
     
    #2 BiGemini87, Apr 9, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  3. I'm gay

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    If you would have asked me 5 years ago, I would have said, "I'm straight, but...." lol.

    I think that if we speak in generalities, we could easily come to the conclusion that generally speaking, straight men do not desire to give oral sex to another man. The idea would be repellent to them.

    With that said, however, as @BiGemini87 points out, a person's sexual orientation is about their attractions, not their behavior. So to understand a specific example like the OP posed, you would have to know more about WHY the person desired to give oral, and if there is indeed some attraction to men there. Of course the difficulty with understanding those things is that denial, shame, fear, and guilt often get in the way of people's proper understanding of their sexual desires and motivations.

    That's why you really do have to take people's beliefs at face value. Because you can't really know what's inside their heads unless they tell you.
     
  4. FerAmaral

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    That was me 8 years ago...lol
     
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  5. Nickw

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    I think we need to consider the age of the person also. Many guys I knew when I was young would have done a lot of things in the interest of exploration and getting off.

    Pretty sure one of my friends would have traded oral with me...his idea...if I would have gone for it. And, I’m pretty sure he considers himself straight as a more mature person.

    But, what does that say about me when I was the one repulsed by the idea at the time?

    I agree with both posters above. When it comes to sexuality you can’t rely on what people say!
     
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  6. I'm gay

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    It says you were full of shame.
     
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  7. Nickw

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    Well. That might be reading more into the situation at the time! I was repulsed at the idea of a girl doing that to me too! Cause at the time I thought oral was something that no one would ever do that wasn’t a pervert!

    Of course, I outgrew that after the first time...

    That got a bit off topic. Maybe “shame” is an explanation for lots of us when we cannot accept our sexuality. But, there are also other reasons for same sex intimacy that many of us might have.

    Opportunity is one example. A friend and I used to lightly fool around a bit. At the time, we both had Catholic girlfriends who wouldn’t touch us. We would get ourselves pretty worked up talking about how far we got and a few times we gave each other a helping hand...for lack of a better term.

    We both enjoyed it and I don’t think I ever felt a deep level of shame for it. Being someone who can see pretty clearly now my sexual attractions to men and women, I think this was the straight part more than the gay part even though I was with a guy. I was, clearly, pretending it was my girlfriend at the time.

    The first time I was truly with a guy it didn’t resemble my earlier explorations with guys when I was young. The pleasure of the mechanics of what we could do to each other did exceed what a girl could do. So, maybe some guys are with other guys because when we were younger we knew more about what to do than the girls did?

    Sometimes other guys can be errr...technically better...I assume women can feel the same way. So, it is possible that some of us seek a better sexual experience and that’s it.

    I would guess though, that the majority of these people who claim they are straight but enjoy same sex intimacy misunderstand their sexuality or are in denial.
     
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  8. BiBoyToy

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    Thank you for the input so far everyone. I've really enjoyed reading what you all had to say! :slight_smile:
     
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  9. I'm gay

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    Of course you're right Nick, I jumped to a conclusion that in your case doesn't fit. My experience with sexual experimentation when I was young resulted in a lot of revulsion for me. I didn't understand that shame had tainted those experiences. Instead, I concluded that I wasn't really gay if I felt that bad about it.
     
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  10. Nickw

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    Reconsidering my post. I think my example probably wasn't a good one. I've done a LOT of reexamination and analysis of my experiences with sexual attraction and sexual identity. One thing I learned is that my bisexuality really is compartmentalized. I've studied how I felt about situations of attraction I've been in. There is almost like a switch I can throw on the gay me vs the straight me. There were, definitely, some times, when I was young that I responded as a gay kid to others. I guess I did feel shame to admit that at the time. Other times I explored like any boy might do with anyone I could. I'm not sure that had much to do with my sexuality. Just a horny kid.

    My best friend of 30 years was just killed in a car accident this last weekend. I know, with the exception of my wife, that I loved him more than anyone. The sense of loss is unbearable. He was my wife's brother and I knew him several years before I met my wife through him. Of course I've thought, through the years, and through my realization of my sexuality, if I had any romantic or sexual attractions to him. I think I've honestly evaluated that and I know I didn't. So, I'm capable of having deep romantic and sexual feelings for a woman (my wife), for a man (my boyfriend) and an intense and platonic love for another man. I've also had one night stands with women and men that had only to do with sexual gratification.

    So, my feeling is that, in my case, actions and emotions aren't always an indicator of sexual identity for all of us.

    I think it's important to mention for anyone reading this. The notion of being able to isolate romantic and sexual attraction (ie hetero romantic) doesn't work. My deep feelings for my friend were not romantic. Yet, they were very intense. There is a difference and I think we can be fooled into believing that how we feel in a platonic relationship might skew our ability to understand our sexuality.
     
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  11. I'm gay

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    I'm so sorry for your loss, Nick. Such a terrible blow to lose your best friend so suddenly.
     
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  12. Suitsme

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    For many years I used to say “I’m straight but bloody hell isn’t she gorgeous over there!” :astonished:

    The “but” told me I was anything but straight! As the years went by, actually falling in love with a woman told me I was anything but straight too lol

    Then at 38 I admitted to everyone, and myself that I wasn’t straight.

    I personally don’t understand why someone would want to perform certain acts with members of the same sex if they were straight. But I’m 51 and my mindset may be a bit fossilised and I don’t even know what half the labels mean these days.

    It’s been great to read the posts on this thread though to give different perspectives.
     
    #12 Suitsme, Apr 13, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2021
  13. QuietPeace

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    What label anyone uses is their own business. I however think that labels should be used for communicating rather than obfuscating. If someone is interested in having sex with a member of their own gender/sex then they are not heterosexual. They may be lying to themselves and everyone else and that is their business but they are not straight. Just my own opinion.
     
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  14. Nickw

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    @QuietPeace

    To play a bit of devils advocate:

    Dr. Kort made the following observation “When straight men have sex with men, they’re still straight, it doesn’t erase heterosexuality any more than when gay men have sex with women. They’re still gay. It doesn’t erase their homosexuality.”

    He goes on to mention how men are more likely to have "transactional sex" than women. ie sex is about getting off and who helps him do that is not as important. In my own experience, I have had sex with both men and women that I had no real emotional feelings for. I'm not proud of that and I don't see myself doing it again. But, it really was all about the sex and not about the person.

    Where this can lead to issues is when some of us use this excuse (just getting off) to fool ourselves into believing we are not gay or bisexual. I know I was capable of taking the stand that I was straight with a kink that I desired sex with men. But, in reality, I know now that I'm bisexual. But, I also know of men who tried it with men and it wasn't for them even though they thought it was OK.
     
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  15. QuietPeace

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    Just because someone has Phd after their name does not make them perfect. I disagree with the dude. I think that very few people are truly monosexual and if they would just admit that they are interested in more than just "x" whatever "x" is and be open to accepting a label that tells the truth the better off everyone will be. I will not say another word in this thread.
     
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  16. Nickw

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    @QuietPeace

    Gosh, I, in no way, meant to diminish your opinion and I apologize if that's how it came across

    The OP has expressed an interest in discussing sexuality in, somewhat, of an academic way. He has asked some provocative questions that are interesting for discussion sake. It is all good information to be exposed to. I've read a lot of what Dr. Kort has written through the years and agree with and disagree with plenty. In the interest of what the OP was asking, I thought that bringing a professional view into the conversation could be interesting.
     
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  17. Jlan3825

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    Im wonder
     
  18. Jlan3825

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    Im wondering if this is me, i love performing the act. Just not sure if i have the emotional connection. I think i would need to atleast go on a date with a gay guy to really see if i can have an emotional attraction as well. Bi guys i have been, i dont know they just seem to hold back on what they are willing to do.
     
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  19. dirtyshirt84

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    I think this is a good point, that a man knows what to do with a mans body just as a woman knows what to do with a women’s body. Probably why lesbians often have higher levels of sexual satisfaction that heterosexual women.

    I would agree though that most people who enjoy same sex sexual experiences are not straight.

    I also think that as Nick said it is possible to have intense platonic feelings for a friend. I think society tends to sexualises things and this confuses people. They think that intense feelings must equal a romantic or sexual attraction, but I would argue, not necessarily.
     
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  20. BiBoyToy

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    From my understanding, you don't have to be emotionally attracted to men to be bisexual. If you love doing sexual acts with men (such as giving oral) but like women as well, then you're more than likely bisexual. However, I do agree with people that posted on this thread that there are some straight men (and straight women) that enjoy doing sexual acts with other men (other women), but are still straight. If that makes sense.
     
    #20 BiBoyToy, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021