How far should we go helping suicidal people?

We should encourage them not to but I don't agree with the demonizing suicide victims as "selfish" or saying they're all going to Hell or anything like that.

 

I'm in favor of having the right to end our lives, especially when it involves degenerative diseases. Not everyone wants to stay around and slowly turn into a vegetable or die from the inside out due to some disease.

Those who insist that someone with a degenerative disease should stay around even when they're only an empty husk, are the selfish ones. They are prolonging suffering sometimes as people are lucid and trapped in useless bodies, like a doll.

If people with such diseases wish to terminate their life while they still have dignity, they should be allowed to do it without fear and those that wish to help them should be able to do so without fear as well.

I for one, wish to die in case I have degenerative diseases... and I already appointed someone to pull the plug on me in case it comes so suddenly that I don't have time to put an end to it myself.

Of course, this is different from feeling suicidal from depression due to <insert various reasons that can lead to severe depression and suicide>. I've been there once, some 20 years ago, but I managed to see past it and carry on. Some of us however, don't see past it, lose hope and try to end it all.

"Selfish" some will say... do you really think that someone lost in such desperation that makes them suicidal, thinks of other people a lot? At that point, ending the suffering is the focus... not other people.

 

Technically, yes, they do, because we as humans have the right to choose. It depends on the circumstances you're talking about, though.

As someone who's dealt with suicidal friends and been in a clinic for something similar, I don't necessarily agree with it when you're in your teens or early twenties or something of that nature. I'm a firm believer in the thought that things do get better, and to take your life in a time of crisis means you won't ever get to see that silver lining and the aftermath. It may take a while, but I've seen people who have improved a lot after feeling suicidal and not going through with it. Generally, in the friends I've had who were suicidal, they couldn't see past that particular moment in time and look towards the good future they could prepare for themselves. They only could focus on the despair and feeling trapped. But things did get better for them. People who commit suicide aren't bad people, though.

Prepare for some anger: Last week I got this stupid pamphlet from a "church" (I can't even call it that) how Suicide is Sin and I was about ready to flip my lid. It got me beyond angry, I was and still am livid that someone, a "religious" and "good" man, could disgrace the people who committed suicide, disrespect the dead and their families and try to make it into some religious spectacle to "praise the LORD". And ontop of that, those things were littering the streets. Good job dude, you're a jerk and you pollute the planet. When I see stuff like that, that's what gets me mad. Don't demonize the people who commit suicide. Even though I don't agree with it, no one has a right to disgrace someone in that way.

I'd get more into euanthesia but I don't know about it all that well.

 

I don't think this should be encouraged or even defended on a forum like this. You have to be sensitive to this is a sexuality forum. My concern is for young people who have been bullied to the point their social life is ruined. Then they come here and see oh, it's not cowardly, it's only selfish to oppose it, "sure it is" a solution, we have the right, and they may then think "may as well go ahead and do it!" They should be encouraged *only* to tell someone and get help!

 

I think it's better that they see it discussed more or less calmly by people in his forum than going on FB or some other site and get told to go kill themselves.

Like this, they see various sides to the story, see that they can get help and suicide shouldn't be considered a solution... unless things are so dire (like in terminal diseases) that one wishes to have a dignified end.

Making these discussions taboo and hiding them from sight won't make things any better. Hiding information and clarification is never a good idea.

 

No one here is advocating suicide as a first resort. We, or at least I, are advocating changing the way we approach it. For the most part, people don't get help, and that has much to do with the way suicidal feelings are treated by the general population. They are trying to get help here if they come talking about feeling suicidal. No one here is going to say "yeah, suicide sounds like the best option here", or if they do, they'd probably get something of a talking to. Making them feel cowardly and even worse about themselves isn't going to help anyone.

I don't think suicidal people are going to take away the message that they may as well go ahead and do it. I think they're more likely to find a group of people capable of empathy who'll listen and not condemn them for having a hard time.

Also, I'm not convinced that telling someone is the best thing in every situation. There is a lot of prejudice towards people with suicidal feelings, and mental illnesses like depression as well, and lives don't always get easier just because someone knows about your troubles. For example, had my parents found out just how close I was to suicide a few years ago, I would be treated differently in a negative way now, even though I've been depression-free for years.

 

I think people have a right to kill themselves. If I am so miserable that the thought of continuing to live is unbearable, I should have the right to end it. I shouldn't be forced to suffer, because my death would make you uncomfortable.

 

So, everyone has the right to kill themselves, we all have that choice and most 'civilised' countries are a long way past the point where suicide attempts are punishable but imprisonment and that's very important... However that doesn't change the fact that we should do everything in our power to stop people committing suicide because the suffering that people feel at the point that suicide seems the only release is unlikely to be reflective of the life that someone could live if they got the help they need and deserve. I can't help but believe that suicide will always be a mistake and one that no-one ever gets to take back. Yes, they won't suffer and that's really the point - they won't get to suffer, or recover or find hope and life they didn't think was possible. They won't get to realise that there is a person who has a life beyond suffering.

 

Sorry, i referred someone who is suicidal to this forum just yesterday and i'm thinking it would not be helpful to see this and it would be my fault if he went thru with it and so on. In addition, on another forum chat room yesterday, someone brought up doing in her parents and then herself and i had to spend 30 mins talking to the cops in a distant city to find out where she is. It's been very emotional day dealing with people who are completely off their rockers.

 

Yeah they do vary. Because of my mum's illness and addiction issues I used to have, I've had experience with private psychiatric hospitals and they are very much more like a hotel.

But generally here in Queensland, most public mental health facilities are crowded and tend to be a bit more rigid and sterile, but that is more due to the fact they see the 'worst of the worst'.

The UK does appear to have been more proactive when it comes to addressing mental illness. Australia has a lot of non-for-profits and initiatives which have started to become quite prominent but Government support is a little bit more like a token gesture.

 

Seconded!!

I've had some pretty dark moments in my life (and it's something I still struggle with) where I have genuinely thought that oblivion would be a kind alternative to what I was feeling, but these feelings did, thankfully, pass and now I can go through these dark periods and just remind myself that the feeling is temporary and that dying won't solve the problem.

That being said, if I had heard someone even mention in passing that I had a right to end my own life and that it was totally my choice then I wouldn't be here typing these words. I think that the line of thinking that a person has the right to do so is, to put it mildly, dangerous territory.




P.S. Everything I said is in relation to suicide and not euthanasia, which is a different discussion altogether.

 

Yes, if a person wants to commit suicide and understands the consequences of it, they should have the freedom to do it.

You have to think about who and what you're leaving behind before you think about suicide. You'll be dead, but friends and family and also your job will all be left behind. It's also up to the individual to consider spiritual consequences.

I don't want to "go religious" but the Jesus I believe in died for all sins past and present. The only unforgiveable sin that is listed is not believing in Christ in the first place. A person under severe stress emotional or physical (pain) can be forgiven if they choose suicide. It can be forgiven and I think it should be.

I seem to be very loose in my view on suicide. I'd rather die then spend more then 5 years in jail. I'd rather die then suffer through life paralyzed or as a burden on someone else. IDK why, I just see it as an option at all times. If the apocalypse happened tomorrow, I'd wait for the nuke, meteor, or zombies. I wouldn't try to survive.

 

I do believe it is your right to end your own life, but sometimes, it can be a really selfish act since you chose to leave your family who loves you but you never told them about your problem and chose to end your life before talking to someone else first.

 

Yes.

Howvever.

Depression changes a person. Depressed people are unable to see past the deep dark blackness, are unable to see the people that love them, can't see that things may get better. They are literally encompassed in a blanket of self self self, which they can't shake off.
Taking this into account, it is better if they received help. But it's hard to get the depressed person to do that.

This is coming from someone who has suffered depression on and off for nearly 10 years. It's hell. At the worst point, I attempted suicide. I belive it is our choice, it's our life. BUt now I'm in a better place, I'm glad I failed. And killing yourself takes away the opportunity for things to get better.

---------- Post added 28th Sep 2013 at 05:49 PM ----------

From a nurses point of view, it's all about capacity.
Suicidal people don'ttend to have the capacity to make decisions about their life. That's why police/doctors/etc step in, and save them, as this is what is in their best interests.
Taking this into account, I really really belive euthanasia should be made legal in the UK. People who are living with long term, often painful conditions, who have been suffering and are able to weigh up the options, and make the decision that their life will not get better, should be allowed to die.

 

So I'm still catching up on this thread. By the way thanks for making it, I think a lot of good has come out of it.

So I am part of the staff here, and I'm going to support all our policies. I don't think an ideal solution to this problem exists, and calling an ambulance is at least a solution. And sometimes a very good one. I also want to mention that it's something only ever done in extreme situations.

But I agree it has its fair share of problems. And definitely making people feel like they have to watch what they say is a HUGE problem. I agree the humiliation and the hospital bill are really terrible consequences.

So I think we should still be trying to come up with better answers.

I don't think going on living is something people should feel forced to do to begin with. And some of the reasons people feel like it's a chore are things that can be dealt with. Like hating yourself because you're gay and closeted. And I personally would like to help people past those kinds of problems. It's a lot easier to talk about what's really making a person feel that way when suicide isn't on the table any more, so my immediate instinct is to try to deal with that directly. I still feel like that's the best approach, but maybe it isn't, and I am definitely open to hearing other ideas.

So I want to ask, not just you but anyone, what you think I or anyone on this side of a computer screen should do in that situation. If anything at all, I'm not asking you to agree with me in a roundabout way if you still feel we should just leave things alone. I'm honestly just interested in your thoughts and finding better ways to help gay and trans people through tough times.

 

I'm glad you made it thru all that and have the courage to speak up on it now. (*hug*)

A thread to debate euthanasia for terminal illness i am all for. Suicidal young people, however, are not thinking rationally or capable of making such a huge, permanent decision like that. Instead of philosophize over "self determination" in these cases, we should only console, direct them to resources, and intervene if necessary.

 

No..
Unless a stuation means a slow agnozing death without the chance of recovery or overcoming (along with a full pyschological Ecaluation to insure clear thinking)
Dying untimleyyou will suffer not just emotionall but socially and economically.
The mind is simply not reality and can be changed/transformed.

 

I guess people technically have the right to end their own life. There are just so many (drastic) ways to prevent that from happening that it makes it seem like people don't have that choice to make. As someone who's been on both sides of the fence, I do believe that it's the person's choice and right to kill themselves if they so desire, but I also feel like it's the other person's choice and right to (reasonably) do everything in their power to prevent that from happening and letting the suicidal friend/relative/whatever know that they're wanted and needed in this life.

I also agree with everything Nick says here. I made a couple of posts almost a month ago that resulted in the police getting called to my house and me spending about 18 hours in a hospital. Although I'm ultimately grateful that it happened and my mental state is much better, my actual living situation is a lot worse than it was before. Almost everyone at the church I used to go to now knows about my suicide attempt because of my mother telling them, so I feel extremely ashamed whenever I happen to run into them in public and try to avoid them whenever I can. I have an outrageous hospital bill that's over $1,000 that I simply cannot pay off in time before the late fees are tacked on. This is in addition to other miscellaneous bills and debts I already had before, so my credit is pretty much shot. Then there's also the fact that I need to find both a new home and a car by next summer at the latest since my mother intends to move out without taking me or my other sister with her, and with my credit currently the way it is, I'm having doubts about being able to pull that off, even if I get a better job. As I said before, I'm very appreciative of the support and help I've gotten from here, but I do agree that there needs to be a better way of dealing with possible suicidal attempts. Yes, you make the phone call and potentially save someone's life, but you have to consider that some people are living in the U.S. and have very low income and no insurance (like me), so that call can potentially worsen things. Of course, I don't really have any ideas on how to improve on that, but I guess that'll be an "Ask the Staff" thing if I get any.

 

Hey thanks both of you, and I'm really glad you felt safe posting that stuff here

One thing I want everyone reading to have, and I called this number myself at the beginning of the year, never received any bills or anything, they're open 24/7,

1-800-273-TALK

I don't want to derail the conversation too much but I will definitely talk to the rest of the staff about making contacting us easier. Maybe a tab somewhere with PM links to all of us? From the sounds of things we could also probably use some general suicide prevention resources.

On that note, the place I got that phone number from has a website, Lifeline . And they have a live web chat too if you're phone shy. I might ask how hard it would be to link them directly, just kind of thinking out loud.

I just remember how much having someone to talk to helped me out. I want everyone to feel safe posting here - that's the whole point right? And again, I want to say that we never take those kinds of steps unless we think it's necessary to save a life - but if for whatever reason you don't feel comfortable, I can vouch for that phone number and that website personally.

Plus they're better qualified than I am to talk about this stuff. We do have some professionals but I am not one of them. I went to school to study computers and electric circuits, not people. I just happen to be trans and gay, and have some life experience and like listening to people.