How can you say HOCD doesn't exists?

HOCD does exist in my opinion, although not as a formal diagnosis.

The problem is, HOCD wouldn't exist in a world where being gay wasn't a big deal. Because of its nature, there are manifestations of OCD that occur as a result of taboo elements of society. As an anxiety disorder, you worry you're something that you shouldn't be.

To drive the point home, there are also religious manifestations of OCD, where people wonder whether or not praying at the right times correctly will damn them for eternity. In religious societies, the incidence of religious OCD is absolutely higher. Imagine if you constantly questioned whether or not you were baptized correctly, and thus not a real Christian, and thus doomed to be discriminated against and denied opportunity in a religious society. It's the same exact thing, but not a distinct form of OCD.

 

I'm actually studying for my psychology test tomorrow right now. In fact, the unit I was reading up on was about sex drive. Studies show gay and bisexual people have higher sex drives than straight people.

That's a terrible analogy. A bully harasses people voluntarily for the sake of personal gain; OCD isn't exactly controllable. The way I understand it, isn't the action associated with the obsession something the person feels they need to do to get through the day?

I wouldn't call that "the obsessive thoughts going away", that sounds much more like conditioning a tolerance to this negative stimulus. There's a severe difference between those two.

So, why exactly are you here? I mean, I'm sure it's nice that you're trying to "help" all of us, but I gotta say, it's a little strange for a 16 year old "lab assistant" to be actively seeking out an LGBT help site. Are you sure there isn't something else on your mind? :rolle:

---------- Post added 9th Jul 2012 at 05:38 PM ----------

(hopefully this post adds?)

EDIT: I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying; is it that all LGBT people are just sufferers of HOCD, or that some are sufferers of HOCD?

If it's that all gay people actually suffer from HOCD, then I'd like to ask what happens to people who repress their sexuality (or same-sex desires, in your case). For example, I never thought about sexual thoughts with men during my high school years. I did before that, and after that, but not during. If I did have a form of OCD, then wouldn't I needed to have acted on my obsession over that time?

 

Yeah... seems a little strange. :eusa_eh:

 

I was asking myself the exact same thing.

Let me add to that that I was actually attracted to girls, a lot. I had relationships with girls. And, just like BudderMC, regardless of what happened before or after, I never even once thought about guys in any different way than just friends during high school time, even though OP seems to imply that this is basically never the case.
I found out in my late teens, and before that I'd never ever obsessed over guys... (and neither do I now, for that matter lol)

 

i'm glad to see some people taking time to tell this, with all due respect, kid he doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

That original post sounds confusing, and not recognized by the scientific/medical community. The closest thing I could imagine is what I would call C-OCD - Closet OCD, where one develops obsessive and compulsive behaviours about covering their tracks (constantly deleting their browser history), about "appearing" str8 (pink shirt are you insane), avoiding all sorts of situations that may reveal "the secret" (Gaga on the radio change the channel), and generally reading way too much into other people's casual comments. Does not put in question the person's actual orientation tho, it's just a behaviour possibly associated with the closeted situation. This is even less documented and even less scientific .

 

Lol, but it sounds more logical than HOCD, to me ;p

 

I'm not in any position to agree or disagree with your assertions. I can simply assume you know your inner workings better than I do, and therefore perhaps all you say is true. That you're actually 100% straight but have "gay leanings" (as it were) because you've got OCD, you were distraught over your father's death, and there you go.

I guess my question is - now what?

Do you demand my recognition? That I agree with you that you're completely straight? Fine, OK - you're completely straight. You want the rest of the world to understand, to recognize your complete heterosexuality despite your attraction to other men (which isn't caused by homosexuality)? Well, I'm afraid some people aren't going to get it, but that's true of pretty much everybody on the board - we've all run into people who don't "get us" in one way or the other.

But again, then what? If you're positive that you only have "gay leanings" due to your OCD, I'm assuming you're not going to do anything about them. Well, maybe you'll fantasize about a guy from time to time, but since you're positive you're straight, assumedly you're going to stick with dating and sleeping with women. If so, then what's the big deal? Just say you're straight, just date women, fantasize about a guy once in awhile if your OCD gets too much, and none's the wiser, right?

Lex

 

At this point I'm wondering whom you're trying to convince.

 

I agree with all of the responses so far. A few things that I wanted to add:

Well, I had such an epiphany. For the first 19 years of my life I assumed I was straight. There were a few things here and there, but nothing that made me seriously consider the idea that I wasn't straight. Then it hit me one night as I was lying bed: I was in love with my best friend. In the romantic sense. Yes, this friend was female. It took me a month of more or less obsessing over it to get to the point where I was certain this was really what was going on. But the emotional turmoil from the whole event was more than enough to make me question my mental health. I still wonder about it some days.

Yes, obsessing over one's orientation can be a manifestation of OCD. Do you have any other symptoms of OCD? Have you been diagnosed with it by a professional? If not, then it is likely legitimate questioning rather than an unhealthy obsession. There's a reason why there are so many threads here with people freaking out over potentially being gay. The experience can be enough to make most anyone question their mental health thanks to the amount of anxiety induced by living in a heteronormative culture.

The best approach in a situation like this is to take a step back. Have you heard of mindfulness? Whether you're questioning your identity or actually suffering from mental illness, it is very useful. It's still rough, and no single thing will make it better. But deciding that it must the result of mental illness does not help the matter unless, of course, a mental health professional has already diagnosed you with something relevant.

 

Chip beat me to it, but you shouldn't self-diagnose yourself. If you're looking into psychology at all (which you seem to, by your OCD research) you should know that self-diagnosis is heavily laced with biases. If you legitimately think you have OCD, you should go see a professional.

So, you came to this site to convince all of us that we're not necessarily gay, but suffering from OCD... and then you want us to justify to you what you just taught us so you'll believe it better? That's incredibly an incredibly farfetched and convoluted way just to convince yourself you have HOCD and are not gay (not to mention, if you look at it rationally it proves absolutely nothing).

There's a difference between consciously denying something (like you did with the girl in your classroom [that's also a derivative of cognitive dissonance by the way, which I can explain more if you care to know]) and subconsciously denying to the point of repressing something. Things happen in our brain so automatically it doesn't even register as happening. Those are defense mechanisms, and denial/repression is one of them.

I'm gay. I don't care what you want to call me, but I call myself gay. I enjoy thinking about being in a relationship with another guy. And I think of it pretty damned frequently. They aren't mutually-exclusive options.

I'm sure I think of being in a relationship with a guy as much as my straight guy friends think of getting with girls. Does that make them straight-OCD? Because, by those definitions, it would. Just because being straight is the norm in our society doesn't exempt it from the same condition you're attributing to people with same-sex thoughts.

And before it comes up, keep in mind that OCD is not indicative of a sudden change of events; by this I mean, OCD is no more valid because someone is "straight" with "gay" obsessive thoughts than if they were "straight" with "straight" obsessive thoughts.

Honestly, that just sounds like justification for your own feelings. You call it HOCD, but around here where we go by the 5 stages of grief, I'd call it "bargaining".

Right, it's not a disease. Good to see you understand that.

No, homosexual thoughts are accompanied by anxiety because we live in a heteronormative society where being gay is still not fully accepted. Being scared to live in your own skin is enough to drive anyone to severe amounts of anxiety. Ask some people who identify as "gay" and tell me what % of them have anxiety AFTER they come out and are free to express themselves as they'd like.

As a comparison (a proper analogy) that'll hopefully make you understand, being "closeted" (acknowledging you have same-sex attractions but haven't told anyone) is the equivalent of having to keep a big secret. Say you stole your mom's expensive diamond earrings and replaced them with cheap identical replicas. She wouldn't know the difference unless you told her, but you'd still be feeling guilt and anxiety from lying and keeping secrets, not to mention the feeling that you're doing something "wrong".

Well, for the record, I just covered everything you posted this time around, so by those standards you're gonna reply to what I said, right?

Honestly, I'm taking that moreso as an excuse; a reason for why you can't refute what's rather plainly being presented to you by us. Again, that's a form of denial.

You're probably thinking by now that I'm being really hard on you. And yeah, I am, because I don't appreciate it when someone comes in here and tells me that I (or the people I identify with) are simply misguided or lying about who we truly are, especially since the purpose of the forums (and the reason I post here) is to help people specifically with that. But, more than being harsh, I'm trying to bring you down to size; I'm trying to prove all your points wrong so hopefully you'll figure out what exactly it is you have, whether or not that's HOCD or you're actually gay. And if you do have HOCD, then I want you to prove yourself convincingly enough, not with misnamed facts and weak arguments. Half the reason people come here when confused about their feelings is because they're in some form of denial (which I believe you're in), and it's our job to help them sort out what they're actually feeling.

What I want to ask you this time (since you answered my first question) is why are you making things so complicated? You've identified clearly that you have same-sex thoughts. Why go through all the difficulty of declaring you have HOCD rather than just accepting that you might be gay? Is having HOCD that much better than being gay? The way I see it, it's actually worse; you accept the fact that you have HOCD, but then you continue to live in a conflicted world where your obsessions don't match up with your true desires, leaving you unable to have a fulfilling relationship with anyone. At least if I'm gay, I can find a fulfilling relationship with a guy I truly love. And isn't love worth living for?

---------- Post added 9th Jul 2012 at 10:49 PM ----------

(hopefully this adds on too)

I'm pretty sure justinf, who you referenced before as being "gay", went through that exact process, if I remember correctly. Just so we're clear, it happens, but I'm not about to go dig up proof for you. If you care, you go look for it.

EDIT: I've gotta go now and finish properly studying for my psychology test, but I look forward to seeing your responses in the morning.

 

sounds to me like you are just trying to find a way to explain away your same-sex feelings, without having to face the possibility that you might actually be gay. maybe you really are just manifesting symptoms of as-yet-undiagnosed OCD. i, however, am definitely gay, after having one of those epiphanies you don't believe in at age 30. (and thank goodness i did!)

 

Okay, it's really really late and I'm on my phone because my laptop crashed, but I have to reply to this because I feel you have some really wrong ideas here.

You seem to think it is quite simple to differentiate between
a) being gay -- those who "enjoy thinking in same-sex relationships" --, and
b) having OCD -- those who are "obsessed with same-sex relationships", have "intrusive thoughts", and experience "anxiety" over it.

This is absolutely wrong. According to your theory I would fall into category a. I am gay and I do not have OCD, therefore I merely enjoy thinking in same sex relationships, correct? That is basically what you literally said.
However, I absolutely do NOT enjoy thinking in same sex relationships, matter of fact I HATE it!
I do, however, fit perfectly well into category b; I used to be completely obsessed with possibly being gay. It was, and still is, on my mind 24/7. I've gone completely crazy over all the intrusive thoughts going through my mind, God it drove me insane! And I've recently started taking medication again to repress my awful, untakeable anxiety attacks over being gay.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, what you describe as symptoms of OCD, are, in fact, the exact same symptoms someone experiences when they are in hughe denial and absolutely terrified of being gay. You're describing me! Now before you try and convince me maybe I have OCD, no I do not.

You are underestimating what it's like for a lot of guys once they start confronting the idea they may not be straight... They go through everything you describe as "HOCD" -- from that you shouldn't draw the wrong conclusion that HOCD is real, you should see that being gay is real. And possibly take an honest look in the mirror, leaving *all* options open.

Justin.

 

Oh, God.

CTLuis, Hon. Take a deep breath. It's okay, and you're okay. Whether or not you were attracted to a man or other men for sexual reasons, or for emotional reasons, it's okay. Your feelings are completely valid, and you can have them without explaining them - even to yourself. You are a whole person, not defective, and O.K.

Sexuality is confusing. There is so much to it, and the more you think about it and reason it away and rationalize it and deny it and self-diagnose about it, the more confusing it gets and the more you'll realize that it's really undefinable and very difficult to understand and explain.

The fact is that being gay is difficult for so many people not because they lack attraction, but because society makes it difficult. Very gay people have very real anxiety about being gay. Anxiety doesn't cancel your attraction. They can exist at the same time. Anxiety about it doesn't mean you're not gay. It means you realize that in many cases, it's difficult socially to be gay, and it's difficult for you to understand and define yourself as "one of them" or "one of those gay men."

People do have epiphanies. I was taught being gay was wrong. In fact, I was taught it was impossible for good people to be gay because gay people were evil, hated God, hated families, hated Christians, and just wanted to screw everything that stood still long enough. I hated gay people. I taunted gay people. I joked about gay people. I didn't want to stand next to them because I was afraid of God's wrath raining down on both of us if I was too close. I despised everything they "stood for".

And yet I had same-sex attractions that I very skillfully explained in different ways. I simply didn't recognize it, because in my mind it was impossible to be attracted to the same sex. We cope in strange ways. We rationalize in strange ways to make things make sense to our current understandings and world views. I was in my early 20's and married to a man before I finally realized and admitted that what I was feeling was actually attraction to other women. I was in my late 20's before I decided to try to understand what this same-sex attraction. When I read other people's experiences, and realized they matched mine, and realized those women were called "gay," I could hardly believe my eyes. Suddenly I realized I was actually gay, that everything I'd been taught was wrong. I knew it was wrong because I loved God, I loved my family, I loved my kids, I wasn't a partier, I wasn't sleeping around, I wasn't a sex addict, I was a patriot…and yet I was hopelessly attracted to women, and it was only getting stronger.

It was an epiphany. I stared myself in the mirror and said, "Holy Crap! You're gay! You're GAY! How is this possible?! I can't believe I'm gay!" I was so happy, because I finally made sense. And then I was horrified because of everything it meant and everything it would change. That one realization flipped my worldview upside down. Yes, it was an epiphany, and it was rather late in life (27 yrs old).

It's okay to question. But it's okay to also slow down, not label yourself with any disorders or sexual labels, and just let time reveal a bit more about yourself. And also realize that most gay people, once they come to terms with the fact that they are a gay person and that won't be changing with any treatment - they're happy! Most gay people are glad to be gay, because that makes us who we are. Gay is how we think adn relate to the world. Gay is how we are totally vibrantly alive. Gay is how we are most comfortable in our own skin, and with our own lives, and with our own partners who also understand what it's like to be gay. It's really okay. To be fully yourself is a huge blessing, no matter if you're straight or gay. And being happy with yourself is worth fighting for - not fighting against.

And I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your father. Assuming you had a good relationship, it's only natural you'd want to find someone that reminded you of him.

Ciao.

 

I also had my own epiphany. It involved a jogger in California when I was 20, and believe me, it was sudden and very unexpected. And here's what I did with that epiphany. I mulled it over for awhile. I decided to let things ride for awhile. I said "OK, apparently guys are what's doing it for me right now. So let's just go on that, and see where it takes me." I didn't tell anyone, but I just fantasized about guys. (Pre-internet days = no porn.) And as days turned to weeks which turned to months, and these fantasies never got less exciting, I finally said "OK, looks like I'm gay - now what?" and I started planning how to come out.

I could have denied it. Or blamed it on my distant father or lousy diet or liberal college environment. But see, enen if I managed to convince myself (and the world) that the lousy food at college made me like guys...the fact remained - I still liked guys. No matter what the cause was (or what I said it was), the effect was the same. I liked guys. And the generic term for that is "gay". I could insist I was "dietically sexually reassigned", but I'd still be looking for a guy to go out with. So unless I could eat myself straight, it really wouldn't matter, would it?

Maybe you are "sexually reassigned by way of OCD and grief", but the end result is you're attracted to guys. Which means your options seem to be "get into therapy to overcome your grief and OCD tendencies, thus making you completely straight again" or "get used to liking guys".

Lex