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About to take the leap.....

Discussion in 'LGBT Later in Life' started by tx duke, Jun 22, 2014.

  1. tx duke

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    Well I haven’t posted anything here lately….so I warn that like most of my posts this one is quite long. Things have been “sideways to south” with my family. I still have yet to have the conversation with my wife, mainly because things continue to go down-hill with my parents. In many ways I regret having this conversation with them first. In many ways, I think it was the right thing to do. I don’t know if there is a “right” way to do this sort of thing….I think it is just something that “is”.

    This week I went to a counselor who I have been to many times before when my wife and I were having marital issues. He was pretty amazing. I envisioned him running from the room gouging his eyes out (lol) but he was awesome. He talked with me thru a lot of things, helping me to start the process of getting to the bottom of what I felt. I found some comfort in knowing that he is currently counseling multiple other guys in the same boat as myself (and many others on this site). The hour with him bled away pretty quickly, and we didn’t talk about near enough. But, I am anxious to visit with him more to continue down the path of a greater understanding of all of this.

    I may catch a lot of grief for this statement, but I feel like it needs to be said. I SO wish that “powers that be” in the gay part of society would do a better at portraying what most of us on here are going thru. Maybe that isn’t fair to say, but in “small town Texas” being “gay” is primarily about sex. And honestly, that is the largest part of what is portrayed in the media, etc. As with my parents, the “older” generation only sees being gay as who you choose to have sex with….and there is little to no understanding of the emotional connection that I feel with men as opposed to women. I am in my late 30’s….and while sex “isn’t nothing” (double negative!)…..it certainly “isn’t everything” to me either.

    I am pretty beat up right now in this whole process. My mother is taking this all especially hard - and mainly for my wife and kids. Lots of tears. I know she is fearful of what life will be like for them - and I am in that same boat. I feel those same things. But, we aren’t even there yet. My father is strongly in denial, and continues to say he is “not convinced that I am gay.” I am pretty sure my mother is in the same place. I have discussed this with my parents only three times total (including the initial discussion), so we have not talked a lot about it. But, my father has said pretty much said that “if I am gay then I am not a Christian.” That conversation deteriorated pretty quickly, and I have realized that I can’t be “about” convincing them that it is right or wrong - or even helping them to understand what is going on inside of me. Heck, I hardly understand what all is going on inside of me! I just hope that they will seek out counseling to help them to understand. I acknowledge and admit that “feelings” and “facts” aren’t the same thing - but I feel as if my father believes that since he believes this is a sin then that is the end of the story. I have yet to reconcile all of this with God - but a judgmental and closed-minded attitude is not going to help the process any. But, having said all of that, I know that deep down he WANTS to help….he just isn’t equipped to handle it right now…..and honestly neither am I.

    I had an hour+ long conversation with my sister today that had both positive moments and negative moments. After my conversation with her I realized that she and my parents both are not happy that I have gone to the counselor I have gone to….because he is not one of the two they have thrown out there as an option. In all fairness, I called and e-mailed one of those counselors multiple times with no response…probably on vacation….but I never called the other. I went to who I trusted, and found out that he deals with this a lot. But, in an attempt to be fair to everyone involved, I have contacted the other counselor (one of their two). The counselor I am seeing is in a “medium sized” near-by town and not in the vast “Dallas-Ft Worth” metroplex….and so that carries a stigma that he isn’t very experienced. I am encouraging my parents to go see my current counselor to talk with him…I know they would be impressed if they went….and I hope that is something that will happen. He is even a part-time pastor of a local church…so it isn’t as if “God” isn’t a factor in his counseling. However, this counselor that they have recommended is a Christian as well….and does deal with the LGBT community quite a bit…so it isn’t like I would be visiting with someone who hasn’t dealt with this before.

    So much of “that” (from above) is why I honestly sometimes regret saying anything at all sometimes. I sometimes wish that I had just gone to counseling, and if I felt it was needed filed for divorce, and just not been very “open” about who I was on the inside with anyone. I am not fleeing my family for someone else - there is nobody for me to enter into a relationship with right now….so it isn’t like I am running from one person’s arms into another. But had I just kept it to myself then all of this crap wouldn’t be happening…well….it wouldn’t be happening right now at least :wink: But, that doesn’t resolve the strong desire I have to just be honest with everyone about what is (and has been for as long as I can remember) going on inside of me.

    Luckily, one of the things I have been gifted with is not sweating the “small stuff” (although none of this is truly small) - and being able to see the forrest in spite of all the trees. I know that right now all of this truly sucks. I feel as if this has deteriorated into me trying to please my parents by going thru THEIR check-lists to prove that I am gay. And, in all honesty, I am doing the things THEY want in an attempt to “open the door of understanding” as to what all is going on with me. The hard part is that most of the time I don’t even understand it myself….and they look to me for answers to questions that I simply cannot answer right now. As of now, I am going to continue to see my counselor even while seeing the one they have recommended. I told my counselor that I needed guidance and also a “press secretary” lol!! I need someone who can communicate with everyone much better than I can….because I think he probably has a much better grasp as to what is going on within me than I do. This aspect of it is very difficult for me though…..and I don’t want to be selfish….but I feel as if I am focusing more on what others want rather than what is going on with me personally.

    To the ladies and gentlemen out there going thru this same thing from a strong Christian background, I highly recommend the “God Made Me Gay” site that you can find thru this site - or simply by googling it. While I cannot say that I for sure agree with everything that is said, I can say that it has opened my eyes quite a bit as to where I am on the inside. I want my family to go to this site and read it all, but I know that during “denial” it will not be helpful…and will probably taint anything they could get out of it if I pointed them to it right now. But, for the person trying to sort thru the feelings and thoughts going on inside of themselves, it is helpful.

    I hope to be able to get in to the other counselor this week, but that will only happen if he has a cancellation. I am out of town next week for a week-long training course, so if not this week it will be an additional week before I can see the other counselor. I hope that during this time my parents will seek out an appointment with my counselor. Oddly enough, I believe he is helping a “very extended” member of my family with a similar situation. I won’t go into that any further, but this guy is someone many hold in the highest of esteem (my family included). To the other guys out there in a similar situation as mine - please find comfort in knowing that even in smaller communities you aren’t the only one dealing with these feelings and thoughts. My counselor is dealing/has recently dealt with 10+ individuals seeking similar guidance….and in a small community that is a pretty large number of guys.

    Well, this is probably way too long for an update, but I just feel like it is important to share all of this as I am going thru it. I know there are others going thru it as well….or contemplating it. I truly hope that it is of some help to someone else out there. I continue to draw comfort and support from the comments made by others…..I cannot tell you “Thank You” enough. I find myself encouraged and my soul strengthened each time I come and read your supportive comments. To the others in this same situation - you are in my thoughts constantly. I have read your comments and know right where you are….and I hope that some of these words might be helpful to you. Until next time……
     
  2. jnr183

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    Thanks for sharing your story again, tx duke. Your words are never too long-winded and are so helpful for me to read about. It helps to know someone else is facing similar struggles.

    I don't know what advice to offer you- you seem like you have an incredibly sensible head on your shoulders and it seems like you are dealing with a difficult situation quite well. I hope time helps your parents to accept your sexuality and that they may one day be open to counseling.

    Good luck man, and please keep us posted. Will be thinking of you.
     
  3. Calamus1960

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    Welcome to EC! I've found this site very helpful. You will be fine. Continue to be honest with yourself, your kids, and your parents. When I came out to my family, they were not surprised at all and very supportive! What I found interesting was the reaction I thought I would get from friends and family were generally wrong...Give them the opportunity! It's a great feeling to be honest with yourself...
     
  4. mav96213

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    Thanks for the update. I know it's a difficult time for you, but stay strong and true to what you know is right for you. The storm will settle and calmer skies will eventually settle in.
     
  5. greatwhale

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    Unfortunately, there are no true "powers that be" in the gay community. It's not a hierarchy, which, ironically is its strength. The only overarching "powers" are ideas: equality under the law, respect for diversity, and living with integrity. Each community takes these under their wing and acts according to what works there.

    You are very correct however to point out that if we don't succeed in representing ourselves as capable of loving and committed relationships, if we let them (small-town Texas or small-minded bigots) define us only in terms of sex, we will not win. Which is not to say we aren't doing this. I think a large part of why same-sex marriage is now accepted by the majority of Americans is in part because we have succeeded in modeling successful marriages and relationships and we have made very obvious the injustice of not being able to share in what heterosexuals take for granted.
     
  6. Richie.

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    Hey Mr Duke, thanks for the update, 'sweating the small stuff' damn this is the biggest it ever will be the size of this is not measurable, it's massive!!!! So lean on your friends here when you need too!

    I had a similar response from my mom she came in and started apologising for me to my wife saying it was her fault.. This decision she made has been detrimental to our relationship. You need an equal amount of support from her if not more, I feel for your situation because it takes me right back there, so hard such uncertainty.

    Know I'm holding your hand, we all are.

    Your parents are in massive denial, they will be for a while who knows when they will come round if they love you they will.

    Lean on us and we will be strong!

    Keep up with the therapy!

    Peace and love(&&&)

    Richie (&&&)
     
  7. skiff

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    Hello,

    First, glad you are coming to terms with yourself.

    I do enjoy Kort's books but there is a better one "The Four Agreements" by Ruiz which will tell you a lot about where you are, why it's like this and how to move forward. It is not about being gay but about how society creates a world of lies/hurt/abuse and how to break free from it.

    When (if) [totally your choice] you do come out my advice... Avoid mainstream gay culture. That means apps, online dating, Meetup, gay bars, gay venues. You will not find the silent majority of gays in those places. You will find all the stereotypes there, the squeaky wheels the people who keep the gay silent majority in withdrawal. Trust that the natural circles your life takes will overlap with the correct people. It may happen fast, it may take a frustrating amount of time but you will be better for it.

    I wish you all the best man in your journey. There are no shortcuts.

    Love and peace,
    Tom
     
  8. Choirboy

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    Hi tx duke - Catching up on your story as I've been somewhat absent from EC lately. You sound like you're going about this in an incredibly sensible and thought-out way, although I know that how things come across on a computer screen doesn't always reflect some of the turmoil and swirl going on in your head.

    The number of people in our situation is really a lot more than I ever guessed when I found EC nearly a year ago. I just read a story about a TV writer who recently came out in his 50's after a life in the closet, and I expect that as time goes by and people become more comfortable with it, we'll hear more and more of those stories. You're not alone. We're not alone.

    Since joining EC I've come out to my wife, my teenage daughters, siblings and numerous co-workers. The people in my small suburban Milwaukee town, and particularly at the (Catholic) church where I play the organ and sing and teach religious education, don't know. Yet. Last night my wife told me that someone mentioned a rumor to her about a "prominent family at church with 2 daughters and the husband was going to come out", so unless there's another one, it may be that I'm going to be out there as well soon. Not sure where that rumor came from, but I'm not very guarded about being gay anymore, so who knows. I'm ready for it regardless. If you have concerns about your small town, it sounds like you are being very wise.

    Once the momentum starts, VERY surprising things can happen, things that will mess with your head, but also things that will make your life a shockingly beautiful place to be. I wouldn't have believed that a year ago but I sure do now. Be true to yourself and your values and beliefs, and the right things will happen. Sounds like you are doing that very well already. I wish you all the best, and keep us posted on your progress.
     
  9. jnr183

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    Hi Tom,
    Not to hijack the thread- just asking you to build on your advice. This advice is kind of exactly what I've been waiting to hear somebody tell me. I've always just wanted to meet somebody organically like this... I don't enjoy forced encounters and feel I'm never truly myself during them anyways. I have tried app and online dating and even gone to a gay bar and have been disappointed. I guess my question is this- has this advice worked for you? In what way? Thanks!
     
  10. Yossarian

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    What you is so true; its not about the sex, or even primarily about the sex, it is about being with someone who understands you, and loves you for who you are, whatever their gender.
     
  11. mav96213

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    I totally agree, it's about the connection/bond, which is very difficult to put into words or properly "label" it. Goes much deeper than what most people can understand, unless they are in the same boat. Love is complicated, way more than what's on the surface....
     
  12. quietman702

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    I'm very proud of you for sharing, one can tell they come from your heart!

    I've struggled with that question all my life and that's the main reason I've waited so long to come out. I finally came to the conclusion that they are not exclusive! Not to digress but I'd like to share something with you. I keep the following hidden and have never shared it here on EC and never will again because it's like the "third rail". I really started to wrestle with this while I was at seminary. I only reveal this so you can know that I've shared a similar struggle... not that I'm special because I went there.

    Please know that you are loved and have a family here at EC too. Take care and I'm looking forward to your next update and send light and love your way. (&&&)

    John
     
  13. tx duke

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    Thanks to all - and quietman702 - thank you for that. It was very much needed right at this very moment. This is the exact same reason why I waited for so long to come out. I mean, I had the perfect opportunity if I was just looking to get away from my family - I was separated from my wife for over a year. I could have divorced her then, and gone about my life as I wanted....and temporarily at least foregone this family drama. But, it wasn't the time.

    And to Choirboy - your post was very insightful - and led me to the following question - why do most people lump "homosexual" and "pervert" into the same category??? I mean, maybe you don't see that in your town - but I see it here. If someone is gay, they are a pervert. Because to the outside it is all about the sex.....when in reality it isn't at all about the sex.

    And thanks to the others who have commented. Knowing that the "bond" others feel with men - the love they feel in those relationships - is different and what your heart desires makes me NOT feel so special....which is a good thing! That is honestly what I want - and what I have wanted for a long time. There is no good or effective way to explain that to a heterosexual - or at least to most of them. It is a difficult concept to grasp for them - even though it is as simple as the feelings they either do (or should) feel towards their husband/wife/mate etc. They too, it seems, can't get past the "physical" to see the "emotional".

    What is crazy also is that most in our community would more willingly accept a gay man who has come from a crummy home life (with his father primarily) than one that has come from a strong home life - like myself. I had a very strong upbringing. But nonetheless, here I sit writing these words.

    I have to remain focused on what I have felt inside for so long and not focused on convincing others. While I know there are many people involved in this situation for me, I also know that the only one holding the cards is me. It is what I feel on the inside - it is what I am able to come to terms with - it is what I can understand of myself - that will drive the rest of this process. I am sure that is a never-ending struggle, but at some point I know it will get easier.

    Whats crazy is I think my wife is much more equipped to handle this than my parents. She has or has had many gay friends in her life. She reaches out to them and has a big heart for them. Now, I am not just a "friend" for her....but still at least her mind has already been down a path that my parents has not. So much of me just wants to NOT tell her - even if this is something I decide to pursue to the fullest - to attempt to save her the grief in the short term. In a small town divorce is bad enough....but pile a gay husband on top of that and you might as well just blow the lid off of the whole situation. I still do not know what I want to do, but I do know that in the end, after the dust has settled, my wife would have much rather heard it from my lips than from someone else's in a rumor.

    My wife can be a pretty volatile person - yet she can also be as compassionate as they come. I do not know what route she would go with this sort of news. I want to protect and shield my children (and my wife) from as much of this as possible...which I know is virtually impossible. However, I will just continue down the road of counseling to hopefully better and more fully understand myself and what is going on on the inside of me.

    And finally -back to quietman702 - I would greatly appreciate any Christian/Bible based resources you have for this process. The best thing I have heard to date is that what the LGBT community is dealing with today is similar to what the African American community has dealt with for quite some time - all the way back to biblical times....where slavery was a way of life. I believe it is the closest argument we have for our community. Fundamentally, it is a very similar situation.

    The other helpful thing I have been told - which has taken me a few days to grasp - is what my (VERY Christian) counselor said to me during our first session - he explained that he did not believe that the strong desire for a very very deep masculine relationship and bond was wrong at all - and that that is what he believed was at the heart of all gay men. Now, we didn't make it any further than that - so I have yet to hear what he thinks about the natural extensions of that bond. One of the reasons why I trust and respect him so much is he said "I don't believe it is wrong - I believe it just IS"....and he has said many times that "It IS what it IS"!! Where we go from there I have yet to experience.....but I do know that it is the "safest" I have ever felt in discussing all of these feelings and emotions. But it was a good starting point at least.

    Until next time....
     
  14. BeingEarnest

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    Dear Tx,

    Wow- you are going through an intense time. Does your therapist have any direction on when to talk to your wife?
    You are very open minded in being willing to see the family recommended therapist- and it may simply affirm what you have already discovered about yourself. But the pressure your family is putting on you is especially hard when you have come to them in a spirit of openness and vulnerability. You deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. You don't have prove anything- you are just stating what I you believe to be true of yourself. You have that right- it is your life.
    You are in my prayers today. Peace.
    Earnest
     
  15. Choirboy

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    Really, really good question....

    I think a lot of it comes from lack of understanding. And stereotypes. Think about it--just a few years ago, the only people who were very openly gay were the ones with the guts to go for it, flaunt it, and live their lives exactly the way they chose (whether it was socially acceptable to the masses, or healthy, or not). That fed into a lot of the stereotypes that I know made me very uncomfortable about coming out when I first started figuring out my orientation decades ago. The stereotypes lead people to make a lot of inaccurate assumptions about gay people (or whoever the stereotype applies to) as a whole, even if it doesn't really represent many, or most, of them.

    For example, you could see my partner and me together and probably wouldn't pick us out initially as a gay couple. We're pretty conservative and quiet and unremarkable. And then you might notice that we're holding hands or see the way we look at each other and go, wait a minute, they're not just friends. I'm coming to realize that we conservative, unremarkable gay people actually have a unique opportunity to make people more comfortable with gays as a whole, by being both out AND unremarkable and "non-threatening", if you want to call it that. Regardless of what happens when we're alone, if you really look at us and how we interact, what you'd see is two guys who deeply love each other, and that's what people NEED to see.

    The pervert thing is another matter. It does disturb me to think that some people will find out I'm gay and immediately think "pervert" or "pedophile" or whatever. That's another manifestation of bad stereotypes, but it's a lot more dangerous for us because of what could happen if people make assumptions or decide to take out their bigotry on us. I mentioned that I teach religious education (actually liturgical music during the religious ed classes). Yesterday I figured I'd better take the bull by the horns and came out to out director of music and liturgy, and tell her the dilemma of how to handle the possibility of parents finding out. She was 200% supportive (has a gay brother so I figured it would be OK), and really left it to me to decide, after I talk to the religious education person. I'm on the fence but am actually leaning towards sticking with it. The kids love the music, love my 10-15 minute sessions, and are never alone with me. If the parents find out that the guy who's been teaching music to the kids for 5 years, has played the organ at Mass for 27 years and has been with the parish since he was 10, has been secretly gay all along, perhaps that's a revelation that NEEDS to happen. Maybe I have a responsibility to show potentially bigoted parents that gay people are just people.

    But that's my life, not yours, tx duke. You're very much at the beginning of this, and I'm well into the thick of it (although nowhere near the end of my coming out experience). You have to start this thinking about the people closest to you. And you yourself. There's time to think about statements and responsibility once you've worked many things out. But it's something that can be done, and it's worth doing.

    John
     
  16. skiff

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    bravo John, bravo.

    Exactly how I feel about the gay silent majority. You can use the term "conservative" or "quiet" but we are taking about the same thing.

    The stereotypes are detrimental as we all get painted with the same brush. Society in general has no clue that their straight Lounge Lizard Larry does not define them to us because we know he is a minority, but they do believe Goodtime Groping Gary does define us as the silent gay majority remains silent while Goodtime Groping Gary (our minority) galavants in the public eye.

    Bravo John, Bravo
     
  17. quietman702

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    Hi Duke, there are a number of resources but we aren't allow to share links etc. (I don't think). But maybe do a general search on "God made me gay" and follow your nose. :slight_smile:. Yes our fight for rights is very similar to the Civil Rights movement. Many of the same tactics are being used against us as that were used against people of color. Primarily "demonizing" us to the point that "gays are not to be trusted" and are horrible like the other posters have mentioned, lazy and what not. Sure there are some bad people (whatever orientation) but for the majority the bulk of us want to have some fun like anyone else along the way to finding "the one"... as skiff stated... "the silent majority is us". (Just as an aside it's ironic that that term was coined by the Nixon presidential campaign... I hope I used the word ironic correctly. :slight_smile: )
     
  18. tx duke

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    Well, today ended up being the day to have the talk with my wife. Honestly, I was a nervous wreck all day long. I knew it had to be today. For some reason, today was just the day that it all needed to happen.

    And man, what an amazing time it was. We started the talk late. I reassured her initially that this was not about any infidelity and I didn’t have anyone else in my life - and then admitted to her my strong attraction towards men. What she said after that truly parted my hair. Her response - “I know - and I have known for a long time.” Wow. It was such a relief to hear her say that. The first thing we both did was laugh about it some. Tears followed because emotions and thought about the future implications began to set in - but we both talked each other down and resumed discussing it like old friends.

    I can’t begin to explain how amazing it was to discuss something like this with her - and to have her response be so open and honest. She actually told me that she felt closer to me now than she had in a long time. She expressed that she was relieved that I had told her. She has said multiple times that she knew something was wrong with me - something stressful going on on the inside - and was genuinely concerned about it. I think it was a relief to her to finally get it out in the open.

    Where we go from here I have no idea. Neither of us do really. We discussed a few options, but both agreed that today wasn’t the day to commit to any of them. I am relieved that she is going to see our counselor in the morning. I had an appointment scheduled for the morning, so that we could use it however we needed. I am so thankful that she is going. She has agreed that at this point nobody needs to know about anything. We are both fearful for our children because they have been thru a year-long separation already….and putting them thru a divorce is not something either of us wants to do right now. Where we ultimately end up neither of us knows right now. We have just both agreed that we can take it slow - one very small step at a time.

    I know that after the shock wears off that there will be emotions to deal with. I know she is in shock somewhat. She said she really figured I would never admit to this in my life….because as many on here know it isn’t something most of us revel in the idea of admitting to our husbands or wives. But, she said as soon as I sat down to talk with her, she knew what I was about to say.

    I can’t tell you the relief that I feel on the inside. While this relief is very small because of all the implications this can have on our lives, it is still such a burden lifted. To have carried a secret around for so many years and then BAM - all of a sudden it isn’t a secret anymore - it is just a pretty crazy experience.

    I do mourn for her. I know that whatever path we choose, it isn’t going to be easy for her. It won’t be easy for any of us - but my concern right now is more with her and our children. I don’t love the thought of hurting anyone….especially not them.

    I cannot thank everyone on this site enough for the patient support that you have given thru this process. I can honestly for the first time say that those who are the closest to me truly know me for who I am. They are aware of what I have been aware of for a long time now. I truly feel 1,000 pounds lighter. At the same time there is still such a heavy burden on my heart for her and for our children - but that has been there all along as well. I fully expect that future days will be difficult for us - but true healing can only begin when we get to the ground-level and start building up. At least we are on the same page now.

    Again - thank you to all - and I will try to check in more this week than I have in the past. I have a pretty demanding life…so logging in contributing consistently isn’t very easy most of the time. Until next time, I wish peace and blessings for you all.
     
  19. SaleGayGuy

    Full Member

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    Hi Texas Duke

    Congratulations you found the courage to do this and that it went so well and your wife is so accepting. I’m so happy for you and that your burden has been significantly reduced. I also found after I told my wife that we were closed together.

    I had been away on holiday and was slowly catching up on what’s been happening on EC whilst I’ve been away and what better news to come back to, so congratulations again.

    Sale Gay Guy
     
  20. Richie.

    Full Member

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    Wow,what a reaction, seems like it was a healthy controlled discussion and your wife took it as best she could.

    Glad the huge weight has been lifted. Wishing You both a smooth ride.