1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

A rant about german LGBT

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by anthracite, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    I am seriously enraged. This rant WILL contain stuff not appropriate for kids, so youngsters click away, as always when I'm angry.

    I heard about the possibility to get an alternate ID before a name change to avoid awkward situations. I was totally happy, I could have a normal live sooner! Then I saw what the ID looked like. Half of the ID constists of a huge "WARNING THIS PERSON IS TRANSGENDER AND CURRENTLY TRANSISTIONING SO USE CORRECT PRONOUNS" There is no option for people who probably wanna be stealth.

    What the fuck did they think? And this was not done by right wing people who love to have everyone visible, this was done by german LGBT SJW.

    I am so sick of this motherfucking bitches. I am so sick of everyone trying to force me to out myself. This is my decision, get over it! And no I will not put my identity on a shirt, no I will not be one of those who are murdered because they just can't keep their mouths shut, I won't be one of those who spend their lives in jobs that are basically scum because they can't keep their mouths shut. I will lead the live I want and I'm not gonna be that man that had a pussy, never in my life will I do that.

    Those dirty bastards just want everyone to be outed that WE GET KILLED. That WE GET LOUSY JOBS. That our lives are so fucked up that we will be as spiteful and revengeful like they are. That we have no other choice but to join their ranks and make believe we were the majority.

    I hate them. I wish them all the worst. Just because they fucked up their lives and can't forget, they're gonna fuck everyone else too? How about deal with shit, fucking crybabys? Better kill themselves only instead of tearing everyone down with them. They're gonna fuck their own people? These are the most disgusting hipocrites. Count the lives they've taken. They are just like a second Hitler. The lowest of the low. Packs of cells that have no right to call themselves human.
     
  2. Lazuri

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Well, this escalated quickly.

    I doubt their goal was to out people so they'd be beaten to death. They probably see it as a compromise since you have not actually changed your juridical gender yet. Listing you as something different on your ID than what's in databases would create all types of clerical errors. Can it be handled better? Probably, but it's something, it means there's progress.

    So this rant of yours is honestly completely redundant and way, WAY out of proportion. Saying they should kill themselves and that they're basically Hitler, I mean, what the fuck, man, get a hold of yourself. You'd do well to try and not think that everybody is out to get you, because they're not.
     
  3. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    Well, aren't they? Just take a look at our statistics, we're not fine AT ALL. As a girl, you should know that after all you're the ones that have the highest rates of being murdered, raped, fired and stuff like that.

    Calling it progress to give people hope and then say: Oh no, you have to identify yourself and lose everything you thought you'd have because of something you didn't even choose.
    I am 18 fucking years old, I have my whole life ahead of me and it gets shattered. Most of what I wanted is now impossible. I have to get what others have left, no matter how skilled I am or how hard I work. Nothing I am matters anymore because I happen to have exactly THIS medical problem that should be told anyone.

    If they want it or if they let them die as collateral damage only is the difference between Auschwitz and Dachau. They don't give a shit or otherwise they would have either taken better care of our identity or educate the population. But they decided for that. Or speaking that it was done out of sheer incompetence they have even less right to exist. Accidental aid to mass murder is at best what they do.
     
  4. Lazuri

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    There's bad people, but that doesn't mean that everybody hates us. I've yet to meet a single person in real life that has any actual problem with me being trans--the majority just don't care. Not caring is sort of the problem here too, but not caring is better than hating.

    The thing is that this is still progress. Just because this is how it looks now does not mean that's how it will look forever and yeah, maybe it sucks that it has to be this way while it's relevant to you, but it's still better than the old system or, even worse, the way things were a couple of decades ago. A step in the right direction is always a step in the right direction, even if it may not be a step that's as large or as calculated as one might have hoped.

    This isn't going to trigger any mass murder scenario. Before this, you'd probably have to explain you're trans anyways when your ID doesn't match you. At worst, this has accomplished nothing; at best, this accomplished very little, but at least something.

    ---------- Post added 24th Feb 2017 at 03:37 PM ----------

    Besides, how is this stopping you from just transitioning? Once the transition is over, you get an actual ID.
     
  5. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    Sure, not everybody does. And I'm lucky that my close friends have no problem with it. Probably mass murder is the wrong word, so I'm trying to explain what I mean: It's more like serial killings, but with different killers. Trans people are endangered and if we're visible it's more likely that we're in danger. So if someone reads that shit out loud and the wrong person hears it, you're in big trouble. I once faced an angry mob, but for a different reason, it's not something that is easy.

    No, I'm not gonna say I'm trans. I already got a pretty good excuse which I plan to use and will time name change and HRT very precise for exactly that matter.

    Fired for Being Trans | The Huffington Post

    I'm pretty sure this girl isn't exited to clean toilets for not being a good representative.

    Look, everything in my life told me I was looking forward to a bright future and that I'd be one of the few to beat our shitty social mobility. And I somehow assumed I would be measured by who I am and what I do and not end as a zoo animal with people asking what's in my pants and have this question all that defines me. I am more than a set of wrong chromosomes.
     
  6. Irisviel

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    EU
    let me get this straight, you want an ID that says male but have a female name and you're upset that the ID outs you? I mean name vs gender already does that. I don't understand the outrage over a clear half measure.
     
  7. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    Nope, you're getting it wrong. The ID would have both the real gender and the new name therefore the warning wouldn't even be necessary. This is why I'm freaking out. They could at least have put an option without the trans warning out. Imagine you're at a supermarket and buy alcohol. You get asked for your ID. Uneducated cashier lady: "You are trans-what-the-hell?" Transphobic scum hears it and decides to beat you up. Or the local megaphone hears it and you are now known in the whole town, surrounded by people who like to hear stories abput your genitals. Not an unrealistic scenario.

    Or, as in my case I will never have a single work report from a job I had before name change. Because this would require me to out myself somewhere. Which would reduce me on a thing instead of a human in the eyes of 50% of people around me. I will have disadvantages in my job, will be required to move around the country just to ensure that I will be seen as a human. And this organization loves people who rather be a martyr for LGBT. I don't plan to be one. So logically we are arch enemies.
     
  8. Lazuri

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    I'm sorry, but isn't it tiring being so pessimistic all the time?
     
  9. Matto_Corvo

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,270
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    I'm kind of with Lazuri and Irisviel on this one, but then what do I know about Germany since I live in the US.

    I would gladly take an ID with my male gender and name on it if I could, no matter if it says I am transgender on there are not.

    What you are describing is a form of progress. It is ideal for a lot of people, I understand that, but your reaction will not help anyone anywhere. And it is never alright to wish the worst upon anyone. If you want something done about this then contact people and explain why 1)An ID that lets you have your true gender is a great idea and 2) Why having THIS PERSON IS TRANSGENDER boldly stated on it is a terrible idea.

    But the fact is, as Lazuri has noted, people do need to know if your gender on your ID will not match what legal documents have. This is for clerical issues, and a mix up in that department could result in in you being accused of fraud.

    So, basically I am saying...DO something about it. EDUCATE others in a RESPECTFUL manner, instead of blowing your top. Yes, you will go on to talk about the injustices that has occurred to us Trans people over the decades, but two wrongs rarely add up on a right. When someone tries to make an attempt at progress and it ends up poorly executed the thing to do is not to bash them about, but instead tell them you understand that they were trying to help and then explain CALMLY ( <---that is the big one there) a better way to go about executing this idea.
    The world does not need more anger and hate, it needs those who are willing to think of solutions that ultimately lead to peace and acceptance.

    Pessimism rarely will get you were to go, as experience has shown me time and time again. Instead it is easier to go "This is what has happen, this is how things are, this is the thing from blocking me going forward....So what do I do about and how do I work around these things while still moving forward?" Then I stare finding other ways to my end goal. Try that approach.
     
    #9 Matto_Corvo, Feb 24, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  10. RainbowGreen

    Full Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Qu├ębec
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Gay
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Honestly, I spent two years with my male name and a F on my papers, and people don't even notice it. I think the way they went about was a bit stupid, even if they meant well.

    As said, nothing will change if no one talks about it. If you know any other trans people in your area, maybe talk to them and see if you could put pressure on those who issue those cards.
     
  11. Jiramanau

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    where all the nuts roll downhill to
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Seriously, that's the dumbest thing I ever heard. I don't know why his would be an issue, do Germans look at the gender on IDs a lot?? Americans don't. Personally I don't care that much, I'm really excited about changing my name and plan to get it done soon even though it will be a year or 3 before I need to think about gender markers.
     
  12. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    To clarify: these ID's are told to aid PROTECTION and avoid awkward situations. As if it gets less awkward when you're outed.

    People are forced to be outed and this is called "protection" and "progress" with the naive view you could suddenly cure everyone of their LGBT-phobia. And the solution is to become an activist myself.

    And this is why I am sick of LGBT and don't feel any duty to put my ass in danger for that matter. Because well meant things are simply done for the purpose of claiming "to have done something." Doesn't it remind you of horrible taxes who were barely noticable, when a better solution was available but it would have been harder work?

    These IDs were meant to aid during the time where you pass but have the wrong gender on their ID so why the fuck do you need to out people? They even work for police controls and I ensure you, they do not because of the trans warning.

    Whoever wants to be out, wear a fucking shirt, get a fucking tattoo or go on youtube like "Hey guys this is my voice X months on T"

    Get yourself killed. Get into an angry mob, you'll see how nice it is. They're not gonna bring cake, I can tell you. Dissappoint your families when they thought they had someone to continue hard work and climb the social ladder. I guarentee you, neither will those so-called LGBT represtatives give you a high-paid job, nor can they cure broken bones in a matter of seconds and they will stand beside you, when you're the representative no matter if you want to or not. They will stand by you, pointer in the air and say: "It is very important to educate people!"

    But in 10 years, we're not gonna see who's right. Cause I will be invisible, enjoying my white male privilege which I did not sacrifice for youthful idealism. Because I researched statistics and not assumed anyone would respect me only to fall deep.

    Seriously, these people are playing with you. You don't matter. At least not in germany.
     
  13. Lazuri

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    You are, by far, the most paranoid person I've talked to.

    When the phrase "I'm trans" or "this person is trans" is uttered, a mob doesn't just form out of thin air. It's not like a wanted level in GTA. And if you do actually live in a place where an angry mob is formed when hearing that, then you've got bigger problems, because you're currently in ISIS controlled territory.

    It worries me that you think so lowly about people around you. you really have to try and stop thinking everybody is out to get you. They're really, really not.
     
    #13 Lazuri, Feb 24, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  14. Zoe Izumi

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Michigan
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Some people
    I've experienced nothing but good things from co-workers, friends, and even random people at a big Anime convention where I was able to buy a trans pin, and even a pronoun pin.

    There were no angry mobs, there were no people with knives or guns pointed at my head.

    What there was, were people who were supportive or otherwise didn't care. That is the direction the world is going, toward acceptance/not caring. Transphobia is going the way of racism(looked down on, or used as a joke in bad taste).

    It will take time, and it will take effort. I'm not saying YOU need to be visible since it is clear you don't want to be, but don't try to say that those of us who don't really care, or want to be inspirations to future generations are wrong for wanting to do that.

    I myself am on youtube in the hopes that I can be an inspiration to other LGBT people since I'm Demisexual, Panromantic, and Trans as well. I want to give them hope that we can be more, that even we can make it on youtube, or in the gaming industry, or anywhere else for that matter.

    Call me an optimist if you must, but do not call me delusional.
     
  15. Quantumreality

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4,283
    Likes Received:
    318
    Location:
    USA
    Gender:
    Male
    Gender Pronoun:
    He
    Sexual Orientation:
    Bisexual
    Out Status:
    Out to everyone
    Hey anthracite,

    I would recommend that you chill for a bit. I understand that this is a rant - you stated that upfront.

    Even though I'm not Trans, I lived in Germany for a decade, I didn't see the kind of outright hatred and discrimination that you are talking about.

    Even the link you posted about a person being fired for being Trans was in the US, NOT Germany. That does seem pretty paranoid to me.

    Have you contacted your local political representatives to express your concerns? Frankly, simply ranting here on EC may be good for your mental health, and no one is going to deny you that right, but it doesn't begin to resolve your issue in a productive manner.

    Honestly, knowing how the German system works, I don't even begin to think that the intent of putting that "Warnung" on the ID was to call someone out, but, rather, intended to clarify the situation.

    Just my 2cents.:slight_smile:
     
  16. Lacayda

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Germany
    Gender:
    Female
    Gender Pronoun:
    She
    Sexual Orientation:
    Lesbian
    Out Status:
    Some people
    You probably mean one of those things right?
    http://zweileben.eu/transsexualitaet-der-dgti-ausweis/
    In my opinion you are way too pessimistic. You will most likely not be killed because of your ID. It's completely up to you whether you want to get an ID that matches your new gender and name or stick to you old one. No one forces you to get one of these IDs. I think you shouls just don't care about the fact that you come out to everyone you show your ID. Most people you don't know anyways and you'll probably never see them again so who cares if you out yourself to them.(*hug*)
     
  17. Irisviel

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    EU
    since you're raging instead of explaining, I went out of my way to google it with my crappy German skills and I think you are just being silly.

    You have the real life test thing, some period of time before you get legal changes. The DGTI is a workaround for it, that allows you to have a document that acknowledges your legal gender but recognises your actual gender. So for instance you won't get in trouble at an airport.

    I'm sorry but you are getting state funded insurance, and all the laws to protect you. You have a silly requirement of a real life test in Germany but seriously? You can always choose to use your current ID and have fun with a female name out there like the rest of the world has to deal with. Imagine that just east to your border I have to sue my parents in court to get legal gender recognition covered. Fun, don't you think? And I'm not getting a nice card to flash at anyone who tries to give me a hard time at a post office or bank or whatever, I get to use my male ID for quite a while, like 2 years might be the case.

    And comparing your situation to concentration camps is beyond stupid especially that you live in a pretty liberal country. Compared to the rest of the world you have it better than almost everyone. I'd take your DGTI in a heartbeat, along with your state funded diagnosis and hrt. And without dragging parents to court. And your legal recognition of same sex couples. Countless other good stuff. Just chill out.
     
  18. Jiramanau

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    where all the nuts roll downhill to
    Gender:
    Female (trans*)
    Out Status:
    Some people
    Anthracite,
    Clearly you have a lot on your mind. And you make some good points: trans people face discrimination everywhere and many things meant to help us actually single us out for discrimination. Life is painful. Sorry, boo. But, you're also way out of perspective. For instance: you live in a country where you don't have to worry about how to pay for hormones or surgery, here in America I pay about 10% of my income for health insurance that won't cover surgery, that's another $25,000 I'll have to come up with somewhere between paying for my prescriptions and my laser hair removal. You have laws that allow you to use whatever bathroom you like. Here, the government is specifically trying to force us to use the wrong bathroom, effectively making it impossible to function in society if we transition. My point is, as shitty as it is that life dealt you a transgender card when you were born, you're one of the luckiest trans people in the world. So act like a man, suck it up and play the hand you were dealt.
     
    #18 Jiramanau, Feb 24, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  19. DoriaN

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Canada
    I agree with what the others have said, so proud of them for that.

    In regards to the card, it's not perfect but I think it's a good measure (For what it's worth). When it comes to changing documents and the like, gender matters. The card explaining in a non-verbal way that you are trans, 'so please deal with that accordingly', is pretty good to be honest.


    Want to hear my story? It's just one of my stories.

    I went to the bank one time for banky things, and they asked for my ID. My ID was not changed yet, and they thought I was trying to illegally access another person's account.

    I was so stealth that not only did they have 0 clue about me having provided an old ID, when they compared the picture to my current image they couldn't believe it was me.

    So what happened? Well it's my account, I need access, everyone knows and can hear us since banks aren't particularly noisy where I am from, so I had to out myself in front of the entire bank, first stating in a hushed voice "I'm transgender".

    She didn't hear me or understand the first time.

    "I'm transgender!"

    After I uttered those words I broke into tears. I didn't mean to, I felt fine overall, but something really shook me at the moment. The bank teller immediately understood the situation and tried to console me, briefly expressed her shock, apologized profusely, and credited and complimented me very well on my transition.
    I was drying the tears and laughing, because I felt silly, but I couldn't stop the emotion it was naturally occurring.
    I re-assured her it was fine, I most certainly wasn't mad at anyone, I was just a bit overcome.

    As I walked away I felt really good and was cheery (emotional release), a few people probably looked at me just out of amazement (I had a positive/neutral vibe from them, but either way I didn't really care), which is while in one way a scary thing, in the other it's a testament to myself which is a huge boon. Lastly as I walked to my car, this guy was checking me out, so I mean hey, his interest may have been piqued but that's not such a bad thing I suppose =P



    If I had your dumb little card the lady would have processed everything and that one single moment would never have happened.

    Sure you might 'out' yourself to these individual people, but they see thousands of people, you aren't the first trans person, you aren't that important to them, and they'll forget you.
     
  20. anthracite

    anthracite Guest

    @Quantumreality: I don't know how long ago you lived there, but you probably noticed that the country is politically just as divided as the USA currently is. To the right side, I am the reason for the gendered rape of our grammar, sex courses for primary school kids and the downfall of our army. To the left side I'd be a traitor, because I am critical of their programs. As a political person, I really don't like the thought of not being welcome anywhere if I am not stealth.

    @Lazuri: Yes, I am. Because a study said that 40% of general population don't like trans persons. The higher the income the more conservative people tend to be. So my estimates go higher. Try to move forward vocationally when 40% of people will not only not consider an alliance, but say a few might actively work against me. I don't come from a rich home so this will be a disadvantage already. I simply can't afford another one. I'm trying to protect my future. Better be over the top now than making a mistake and regret it for the rest of my life. I see it like wearing a seat belt when driving a car. Most times you drive, nothing will happen and most crashes will only put some scratches on a car when you're at the parking lot. But when something bad happens, you'll be really happy about wearing a seat belt.

    Then to the process in germany:
    You got to go to court like a criminal to have your name changed. And if you do not agree to meet silly requirements that will take years of your life, you will indeed pay yourself.

    @Jiramanau: Yes, and masculinity is mostly measured by how much money I bring home. What my reputation is. My influence. This is what I am trying to do.

    I am simply really deeply dissappointed in LGBT. Doesn't matter if other people throw rocks as they wish and now I feel like this a political issue only. They behave EXACTLY like politicians. Actually, it appears that they are prejudiced themselves. They don't even consider that we are men and women from every class with different goals, but seemingly care only for the liberal social worker that goes to CSD in their free time. I can't be the only one.

    Does it mean I am pessimistic? No, I might be cynical but mostly I outright refuse to give up my dreams.