27 dead in Newtown, Conn. school shooting

You are so right, That is one of the problems some face in this day. "Bullies" can cause damage to individuals that go deeper than cuts and bruises. So can "groups" or "cliques", such as Jocks or (In my day we called them) "Rah's". Being a new kid to a school can be a real problem too, If one member of say the jocks decide to make this person's life a living hell, There is little that new person can do to stop the abuse. Isolation in a school is a bad thing. I believe that was the case in 1999(?) Colombine shootings. The press was quick to demonize the shooters, without focusing what caused them to hate their environment to the point where they felt compelled to do what they did.

 

You're the one that brought the military up in a rude way. Start your own thread.

 

I completely agree with this not trying to condone the shooter's actions in any way. Despite the fight he may of been a victim of bullying nothing justifies his actions. I was bullied in high school it did not push me over the edge to the point where I wanted to harm others. I only thought about killing myself and that was it. It is clear to me that the It's gets better project and anti bully programs are not working here in America. Yes if schools really want to prevent violence and bullying they need to focus on reality and safety of all students. My school had anti bullying activities once in a awhile but it did never stop people from being asshole. A person's environment cause them in the future to do terrible things and feel that the world is against them causing them to act out irrationally. This kid obviously had Aspergers but I don't see how he could of planned this out the way he did having that kind of disability.

 

OK, all of the yelling and calling names and throwing out descriptions of OTHER ways one could make bombs and kill people is not helping. If this thread is going to be used for people to list ways to make weapons, then I suggest every person who does so gets their post flagged. Likewise any person who yells or calls names.

Instead, how about we stop controlling one another's ideas and START listing ways we can help. What is the point, if people are worried these children died in vain, how about we make that not so by finding solutions. We do not all need to make this world better in the same way.
* Some people who feel so strongly about it can actually get involved in helping to bring about gun control.
* Others can list what they know of the victims and honor them somehow.
* Others can add to mental illness awareness and resources in their areas.
* Some can add to the happiness in the world.
* Some can brainstorm better security measures.
* Others can work on finding ways to help in communities where illegal/stolen gun use is the norm.

We all have something to contribute. There is no ONE solution to such a big problem.


For my part, I am going to think about how to create a disarmament program in areas with heavy illegal gun possession. My Ph.D. is in communal activism by women across the history of the African Diaspora, and one of the programs many women have been involved in in situations of civil war was to disarm the communities. Although to my knowledge the guns used in this CT case were legally registered, a lot of my life has been spent in communities where children are gunned down every day by illegal weapons, and no amount of gun laws are going to help them, since there are millions of guns already in existence and easy to access. This has been going on for decades, but where has the outrage been for them? These children are subject to knife attacks, and stolen shotgun/semi-automatics, not homemade bombs or hunting rifles.

So here's mine:
1. See if there is a way to convert disarmament programs used by women in nations like Liberia to disarm child soldiers and men, to gang warfare neighborhoods in cities in the US. It could take many years, but I am willing to work on it and discuss it with other community workers for testing.

What's your one or two things you can do? Can you attempt to be friendly to the lonely kid at school? Can you stop bullying? Can you make a page on change.org? Can you write your Congressperson? Can you help the person in your family with mental illness get appropriate help? What will you do to make these children's lives impact the world the way they couldn't make happen through their adulthood?

 

but some people won't stop being assholes, at least not during high school.
some kids are so good at hiding their assholeness in front of adults, if you know what i mean lol

also, bystanders. WTF are you doing. it's like people know that those shooters were bullied, but nobody stand up or does zitch?

 

The military brought itself up in a rude way when it decided to invade countries in illegal immoral wars that have massacred entire populations and devastated entire towns and cities. The U.S. military turned the entire country of Iraq into Newtown, Conn. The lives of men, women, and children are not worth less because they are brown-skinned Muslims in the Middle East rather than wealthy white people in suburban Connecticut. And yet Americans overwhelmingly supported that war and cheered as bombs dropped on Baghdad. Americans support drone attacks against Pakistan that routinely blow up civilian men, women, and children. The American people as a whole seem to be sociopaths incapable of empathy for the lives of others, so why are we shocked by the existence of one sociopath who thought nothing of shooting up kindergarteners?

It's the military that developed and produced the assault rifles that have subsequently made their way into the general population. It's the military that teaches Americans that we should be proud of people whose life work is to commit mass murder, to shoot people and blow people up. If those are the "heroes" of our society, it's no wonder people like Lanza and Holmes and Loughner can justify in their minds that what they are doing is right, even heroic. We watch movies and play video games that glorify the "honor" and "duty" of killing other human beings, and they even make a fun game out of it, with all sorts of different weapons to play with.

I will not be silent against this immoral institution which bears as much responsibility for these shootings as any other. The military exists for no other reason than to commit violence. Violence begets violence. If Americans are too brainwashed by the flag-wavers to stand up and say that the U.S. military murdering a million Iraqis was wrong, then we shouldn't be surprised when the violence comes back to hit us on our own shores; at that point any killing can be justified in the mind of a killer.

 

Guys, keep it on topic, and keep it civil, or the thread will be locked. Last warning.

 

Sure but that doesn't mean it isn't a gun control issue as well.

---------- Post added 18th Dec 2012 at 10:28 PM ----------

My condolances, but it's nonsense to suggest we shouldn't discuss ways to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

 

true. in my high school, they screen anyone who walks in and they have to check in............

 

Do you think it's just as easy to kill 29 people with a knife as with a gun?

 

in case you missed it, in the same day, some guy in china stabbed 20 kids with a knife. they didn't die, i think

 

I'm posting this perhaps a bit belatedly, but it's necessary:

Posting personal attacks isn't acceptable under any circumstances. I understand that situations such as this bring up very strong emotions, but calling people clueless or what have you is neither supporting your beliefs nor encouraging civil discourse. Moreover, this was a discussion about the victims of the shooting in Newton, CT, and it's become nothing but a debate about the roles of firearm regulation, mental health, and the glorification of violence in the attack. Arguing in this very moment about these issues, as important as they are, does a disservice to those who died in Newton when their families, friends, neighbours, and colleagues haven't yet had time to grieve. There's time enough for debate when the dust settles.

 

With all due respect, people are capable of doing both at the same time.
Seeing as how often there's a gun murder in the U.S. there would never be a time to discuss it.

 

I didn't say that it was as easy; I said that both tools can be used to kill people and that if someone wants to kill, they'll find a way to do so. In fact, I believe I argued that it is much easier for people to kill with guns near the beginning of the thread, if you care to read everything I put and not just select-quote my argument.

 

Couple of things:
I never said it was impossible, it is harder than with a gun. A knife you could stop, by blocking it with your arm, if necesarry. A gun would just fire another bullet.
Secondly, as you noted those people didn't die.

---------- Post added 18th Dec 2012 at 10:39 PM ----------

Sure they will, however the number of victims is far more likely to be high when a gun is being used then when a knife is being used.
There's far less chance, also, of innocent bystanders losing their lives.

 

And do we know if there was a specific target in this situation, or was everyone equal-opportunity victims?

 

I was making a general point about the use of guns.

 

And I'm making a general point that that argument is not applicable for this scenario. And given that this thread is for this situation, it does not need to be discussed.

 

I didn't select-quote your argument. Your quote is copied in it's entirety.
If you made some clarification elsewhere in the thread I must have missed and do apologise.

---------- Post added 18th Dec 2012 at 10:44 PM ----------

Even if there was no specific target here, the first part of my point still stand:
It's a lot harder to kill 29 people with a knife than with a gun.

 

Thank you, but I didn't mean that we should not discuss how to try to discuss anything like this from happening again I just I meant now is the not time.

and if you want my opinion it's not the guns it's the people who need mental healthcare, and the school should have armed security/ teachers.