Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Revan, Dec 14, 2012.
It's terrible :/
Everything right now in our world form here to Syria to China is tragedy.
Thank you (*hug*)
whre did I say that deaths are more serious than others. never even made a 'moral comparrison between victims of different events. What I said is that people need to stop making illegilmate comparrisons.
you cant say that we should not deal with the gun issue just because 18 years ago, someone blew up an office building with fertilizer. we dealt with the fertilizer issue in the wake of what happened 18 years ago, and now, guess what... it hasnt happened again.
it invalidates his arguement completely, and it proves that we need to finally regulate assualt weapons both rifles and extended magazine clips.
we have already proven that regulation dramatically decreases incidents.
as for caps. I have lost people I knew personally and cared about to violent massacres, so PARDON me if I get fed up of the disproven arguements being thrown around with no abandon, or connection to reality. a good friend of mine was gunned down because a gang member saw a rival gang member on a street in san diago, and didnt care how many people were gunned down in the process.
I never said that fertlizier bombs are less dangerous, or the deaths had less meaning, as you rudely and incorrectly insinuated, but guess what; we regulate the crap out of the ingredients, and that has basically meant we havent seen it since oklahoma city.
but to have people try to wiggle out of dealing with the real problems involved in the fact that Guns have never been less regulated in the modern era than they are now, and it has bloated the incidents of gun violence considerably? (in a single week, america has more violent gun crimes than most countries have in an entire year, and we average about 11k a year because guns are poorly regulated, and special interest groups prevent real change because of their gross, immoral egos).
so dont try to use something highly regulated, and in so doing, basically elliminated the threat as much as it is possible to do so, and then say that regulating the thing that makes it EASY to pull off huge massacres using guns designed to massacre quickly and effectively, that regulating them is not a solution.
guess what. people said regulating fertilizer would not stop it from happening. well, guess what... it DID.
how many people have to be murdered before people will stop pretending that guns are not part of the problem of GUN violence in america.
They posted stuff on twitter about it the day it happened. I don't really know what people expect
Every time I see news of this it makes me cry even more, to think that all of these poor people and those children so young and innocent. Why do they deserve this when there are people like Adam Lanza out there? It's just not right!:tears:
after seeing this post, I just went to a quick google.
Sandy Hook mass murderer Adam Lanza, 20, 'deeply disturbed kid' - NY Daily News <-sample news
does the background of this mass murderer or previous murderers make a difference?
the one in the batman shooting have a phD or working toward one I think...
Ugh, I didn't want to have to respond on this issue again in deference to the idea that we should stick to focusing on the victims in this thread, but since you are now resorting to personal attacks to defend your political agenda...
Um, buying fertilizer is easier than buying a gun. There are no background checks or waiting periods or anything. The idea that the government does a thorough investigation of everyone who's buying fertilizer is nonsensical.
Contrary to the hysteria, violent terroristic incidents like this are statistically very rare for a country as large and heavy populated as this one. As J Snow I believe pointed out, the healthcare crisis claims far many more lives every year, including children, than do shootings like this. Automobiles also claim many more lives each year than do guns. But we don't talk about fixing our healthcare system nor moving beyond the automobile era.
If people want to commit terrorist acts, it really would be shockingly easy for them to find a way to do so.
Making something illegal doesn't make it disappear. In fact it doesn't really have any impact on people who regularly operate outside the boundaries of the law, like criminal gangs, terrorist groups, militias, or just lone nuts.
The guns are out there. Millions of them. I notice you never addressed my question of whether we would take the sort of extreme police state actions that would be necessary to really "get guns off our streets", and send police raids into every house and car in America to open every cabinet and look under every bed. Trying to implement "gun control" now is like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube after it's out.
And if you start pushing gun control, all you will do is strengthen the resolve of millions of Americans who believe it is their constitutional right to bear arms, to stockpile as many of the most powerful weapons as they can to protect them from the "gun-grabbers". When Barack Obama was first elected president and many people feared an assault weapons ban and gun control legislation, gun shops experienced record sales and people rushed to stock up on assault weapons and every other sort of gun. The NRA loves hearing about "gun control" from politicians and the media, nothing else is better for their fundraising, and nothing else sells guns better.
Also, as mentioned, these sorts of events are still extremely rare. For a country of over 311 million people, we are still talking about outlying events that consequently attract a lot of media attention.
The Assault Weapons Ban did not stop the Columbine massacre, which happened in 1999 when the law was still in force. The Columbine killers happily violated the National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act of 1968 and illegally modified their weapons, sawing off shotguns and building explosive devices (and this was after OKC of course).
If there is any real, statistically-sound evidence that gun control legislation proved effective in stopping violent terroristic acts in the United States, I haven't seen it.
I already pointed how this phrase is nonsensical here. Violence is violence.
A deranged psychopath who wants to shoot up a lot of people WILL FIND A WAY TO GET A GUN, no matter what the law says.
America has a violence problem, not a "gun problem". Guns didn't create themselves; human beings invented and created them, and no matter what the law says, human beings will find ways to keep killing one another until we address the reasons why people want guns and want to kill each other in the first place.
But how is that an illegitimate comparison, especially if a death is a death and tragic regardless the means?
Nobody is saying that we should forget about gun control altogether. In fact, I'm a proponent of gun control. What many of us are proposing is that there are other issues that could potentially take priority, like the "root causes" as I called it (i.e. mental health and other social issues).
Right, but is the issue the fact that he was killed by a gun, or the fact that he got caught within a gang rivalry? Because if it's the latter, that's not a gun control issue, and that's the point I'm trying to convey.
Beyond that, when I was talking about caps, I was referring to the idea that caps generally indicate yelling, and I made it clear at the start of this thread that if gun control is being discussed, it cannot be argued about, or else the thread will be locked.
in case nobody read that.
basically it says he plays "violent" shooter video games, social awkward, and from a wealthy family.
i might have missed something in this one liner summary
My prayers and thoughts to the family of the victims.
It’s funny how when it comes the war on terror one group of people says that trading liberty for safety is justified and another group of people say that you should never trade liberty for safety. Then when it comes to gun control the vast majority of people switch sides…
Sorry to hear that
And I agree on the 2nd part
Let's all back the fuck up for a moment and stop arguing about gun control and stuff, as SimplyJay said, and think of the victims and their families, and pay our respects for everyone affected
Wiki might not be a highly reliable source... but after reading Columbine, this shooting, and Oklahoma
but I want to be less of an asshole to people starting now...
it's like people's voices can't be heard or something :/
though the batman movie shooting was confusing to interpret...
"you really are that clueless?"
Yes, he is...
If you want to discuss the military, then start a thread. Otherwise keep your rude comments to yourself, thank you very much.
In complete seriousness I think the Mayan calendar stuff is playing a role in these shootings, there was a similar spike in 1999. Then again it could just be a statistical anomaly.
All one has to do is buy a supersoaker squirt gun then buy gasoline, and you have a flame thrower, To ban a thing doesn't mean squat to a criminal, and by definition of a criminal he will break the law designed to "protect law abiding people"? What you are advocating doesn't make sense at all! You are blaming an inanimate object because of convenance, if they never existed, your argument is mass murder won't happen. I just showed you a little bit of thought you can still cause mass murder, by setting fire to escape routes, then setting fires to occupied areas. You still have the same common factor, the criminal! Unfortunately, we cannot read the minds of such people, so we have to wait until they show intentions of committing crimes, or actually commit them.
Guns are only a small part of the larger picture in what happened to those poor kids in Newtown, Connecticut. The madmen will always find a way, and so rather than just creating harsher gun laws we should look at how these people came to be so twisted and warped where they would do such terrible things. Oftentimes in these school shootings it is the sort of person who was feeling alienated at home, as well as shunned and ridiculed by their peers. These people become so bent and broken by people's cruelty that they simply lose it and don't have the tools to deal with the world anymore.
I do not absolve these people of what they do, yet much of the time, the only thing they really needed in order to stop this sort of thing was someone warm who they could talk to, someone who would really listen and be compassionate with them about their troubles. In short, simply a friend, or a family member to help them stabilize themselves. This isn't always the case with these people mind you, but if even one of these terrible events could be prevented in such a way, don't we have an obligation to try?