Can you forgive homophobes if they are elderly?

yeah but like, like for instance, if my friend (alex) ..and i got into a discussion and i tried to change her mind and get her to see it from a another viewpoint, it didn't work....

I mean, its not bad if you say your opinion on the matter and respectfully debate about it but there's a line where you just have to stop and mutually disagree.

getting people to be okay with it is not always how we can get through obstacles.
People may realize with time that gay's aren't as bad ON THEIR OWN, you don't always have to personally try to change their mind.

sooner or later, a lot of people will grow accustomed to it and just not care anymore.
a lot of this plays heavily into religion and politics but one thing about religion is that, religion grows and so do people.

its okay to try and respectfully debate with someone about it but there's a line Hex, if your not getting anywhere with it, then just leave it be. they may or may not come around.

Just give it time, a lot of progress has been made over the years with LGBT people and i think, a lot just realize on their own or get used to it and don't care anymore. we don't always have to change their opinion, we can just let them realize on their own.

sometimes, you have to let fate do its job and not worry about it. its kind of like sexuality, instead of confronting it and stabbing it to death with a label, just go with the flow.

You get what, i'm saying?

---------- Post added 30th Aug 2013 at 04:23 PM ----------

I agree with the baseball thing hahaha

---------- Post added 30th Aug 2013 at 04:25 PM ----------

i'm not saying to give up and not fight for our rights, im just saying, we don't always have to try and change everyones minds, just be proud of who you are and stick with what you know

im such a hypocrite because im not proud of who i am and I can't even go with the flow when it comes to sexuality

 

My mum told me the day I came out to her that LGBT groups made everything worse for themselves by making such a big deal out of it. If they just kept quiet and stopped making a fuss nobody would mind. They shouldn't be so public about it. Our conversation went like this:
Me: The other day you and (step-dad) were walking hand-in-hand down the road.
Mum: Yeah, but that doesn't happen often.
Me. Fair enough, but you did it and you werent' mocked or beaten or anything?
Mum: No.
Me: So how come you can do that publicly but I shouldn't be so public with it?

She then went and explained to me how beatings and things don't happen in civilised places, to which I sited a few friends I know who would beg to differ. She then shouted at me that she didn't care if I did so why should anybody else. I pointed out that it didn't matter if she didn't care, other people do for the same reasons she had given me earlier. The difference is where she just waits until she's around someone she thinks will find her mockery of the cross dresser she saw to be funny or relatable, someone else might take more volitile measures.

See mum doesn't think there is a need to try and wipe out negative thought especially if it's attached to belief. What she blissfully ignores is that other people take their randomly assigned belief seriously and do crazy shit with it! Then they pass it on to their children who do even crazier shit with it because they have parental approval.

Frankly if your beliefs are personal and don't cause harm have it, that's fine. Mum believes in God and I've never tried to snap her out of that because it doesn't affect me at all. But if your beliefs start harming someone even slightly without decent justification then god damn it they've gotta go...upbringing be damned. As you say religion grows and so do people, they just seem to be rather selective about which bits they grow.

 

I never said I'd go on and on if it were clear we would never agree. Thats just a waste of time. But I will always challenge homophobia. I'm aware that winning this is going to take time, but if we just forget about the whole thing and be all respectful, its never going to happen.

Why should I let fate do anything? Things have causes, and if I want to change something, I have to act. I don't want to change my sexuality, so I don't really think thats a fair comparison. If you look at any civil rights movement, ever, people gain their rights because they fought, one way or another. If they'd sat back and gone with the flow, they'd never have gotten their rights. I'm not trying to claim I'm going to make a massive difference or anything, but I'm not going to 'go with the flow' because if I can't be bothered to act, why should anyone else be expected to?

 

well yeah of course but, *sigh* ...a lot are blowing my comment out of proportion

I'll just quote your quote so I make clear what my stance on this is ..

if someone is mocking someone because o who they are then its not okay because its bullying BUT if someone says they don't believe in gay marriage or being gay is supposedly a choice or somewhere along those lines without putting out any intended threat then i think, people should just leave that be

 

So taking that, what happens when we get to gay marriage voting and things.

If you disagree with gay marriage but voted against allowing it, there is no direct threat there but it certainly causes harm.

 

I wouldn't.

 

Hex, you didn't listen to what i said and neither is anyone else. i'll copy and paste my comment, again

i'm not saying to give up and not fight for our rights, im just saying, we don't always have to try and change everyones minds, just be proud of who you are and stick with what you know

I'm not going to say this is "homophobia" because i don't believe there is such a thing, i'm going to say the closest thing to it which is ignorance/bigotry

sometimes, when we get into a debate with someone, there's only so much you can do and you said you know that.

we can fight against bigotry of course, im not saying we shouldn't but if someone tells you they don't believe in gay marriage or something, along those lines...i think, it should be respected because its their right to believe what they want.

Now, if your at a LGBT parade or LGBT party or something like that and there is a group of protesters, of course...state your stance, that's fine but im talking about a little group discussion. or one on one thing. Not a huge get together or protest

---------- Post added 30th Aug 2013 at 05:15 PM ----------

not physical harm but again, with me...If someone votes against it ...then they do.
they have that right, that's why we have the first amendment.

what should we do to the people who don't support gay marriage? burn them? yell at them? No. we fight ....by being proud of who we are.

there will always be people who disagree with gay marriage, there will always be someone who votes against it, we can't stop that but we can help improve our society by just being ourselves and speaking out for our rights.

 

The reality is that, even if the person holding the belief means no harm, the views that homosexuality is a choice or a sin or both are the roots of the vast majority of the homophobia rampant in today's society. And given that everyone is capable of changing their opinions, regardless of how difficult it may be, while no one is capable of changing their sexual orientation, no matter how hard they try, I don't see why gays should have to conform to respect views that will ultimately cause them more pain and suffering than anyone should have to experience in life.

 

Look, i'm going to have to agree to disagree here because

1) I'm sick of hearing this 'homophobia' being thrown around like nothing
2) nobody is listening
3) its not getting anywhere.

In the end, people will believe what they believe and honestly, you and others will have to realize, you can't change everyones view on it. no matter how hard you try, you can't convince everyone so sometimes, its best to work on being proud of who you are and not let them get to you and just let them believe that its a sin or just have them not agree with gay marriage.

The best way to fight bigotry is to just be happy with yourself and life and try not to worry about it

 

OK now I'm interested.

How do you define homophobia. What would you consider the most minor homophobic act?

Now on to more pressing matters. You are right, you can't convince everyone or change everyone's mind. The point the others are trying to make is that it doesn't mean you shouldn't try! If something is wrong you fix it! We should all be able to accept here that there is no justifiable reason for you to judge someone on sexual orientation. If anyone disagrees with that please tell me what your reasons are.

People can think what they want but as Steele says it will inevitably hurt someone. Let's take my gay marriage vote theory.

Lets say 1 in 10 people aren't straight.
We have a group of 100 people. Therefore we have 10 gay... people and 90 straight people.
Now we vote, should Gay marriage be legal?

We get 10 votes for basically automatically. How that other 90% is going to vote depends on their views on homosexuality. Lets say 3 of those people vote in favour. That's 6 left who don't agree with homosexuality for NO GOOD REASON. Now we're all screwed.

Nobody is saying you have to go on and on at people about it but everyone, and I mean every single last person on earth should reevaluate their morals every so often just to make sure they make sense. Disliking LGBT people has no rational backing and when most people actually bother to re-evaluate their thoughts themselves they change their mind.

Being proud is great and all but it doesn't get things done. It shows the people we disagree with that they are not hurting us by THINKING these things, but when governments hand them crap like this on a plate that can hurt us just by voting, you can't leave it to chance.

 

That's like telling women in the early 1900's that they should just live and let live because it's just an opinion that women are incapable, frivolous creatures who are too unstable to vote. It's wrong. Ignorance isn't acceptable, especially when it harms others. Do you really think homophobes have a "live and let live" attitude?

 

certainly not, their age doesnt matter to me

people said that its more forgivable because they grew up in a different society or something like that, i disagree, they can change, they just need to open their mind and think for themselves, they cant just think like everyone, if it were like that, we would never change anything

 

Ignorance is never forgiven, regardless of age, creed, race, gender, sexuality, nationality, etc. At least to me it isn't.

 

A good person is a person who is open minded and shows and ability to adapt.

A bigot is rigid and hate filled, usually via corrupt dictation from a novel.

Age does not play a role in either, so no I would not forgive a bigot if they were elderly.

 

once again, NOT listening to me.
why did I even try?

 

Of course, I must obey the repository of all wisdom. If it's my opinion, oughtn't you respect it? I don't want to be hostile or callous, but being spoken to as if I had the mental capacity of a two year old isn't exactly pleasant.

 

Not at all older younger it's the same shit around.

 

No, they are the reason we still don't have equal rights. Homophobia will die with them, so good riddance.

 

Ironically, I think it's my conservative grandparents who will be the most accepting of it. One day they told me, "whatever you choose to do or choose to be, that's fine with us, we just want you to be happy." They were talking about my career, where I live, and my choices in life. But, it seriously seems like that would translate over as well. So, even old people (they're in their 90s) can be accepting.

 

Depends on how their homophobic.... Is it through ignorance or hatred? My nan could be considered homophobic because she probably wouldent acknowledge my relationship with a girl to be anything other than close friends but theres no hate. If. On the other hand somebody old or young is vocal about their hate for lgbtl I couldn't forgive them because hate is hate, people know what their doing/saying whatever their age.