People Against Feminism..

I'm not the intolerant one. I didn't think the debate would've led you to unfriend me. A difference of opinion is normal.

 

"Intolerance".

I'm crying, look who's talking about intolerance!

 

I can actually accept people have different world views without unfriending them and having an outburst because some dared to not follow my ideology. If you want to be a feminist fine, but people will associate you with a negative stigma off base value. Now, I know you're not the radical type, you've said you're not, and that's completely okay.

 

Yeah, great, so can I, your point? If you look on the original thread then you might have noticed something I pointed out: that you claim to know so much, yet you are completely ignoring our experiences as women. But whatever, I am arguing with a literal child and I feel a little bad about that, I expect better of myself.

 

I believe it should matter what's in your head, rather than what's in your pants. People shouldn't be forbidden from driving or forbidden from school because they lack a "magic wand" that doesn't determine their intelligence anyways. People don't belong to people, and if the roles were reversed for a day the world might just understand. I disagree with misandry just like I disagree with misogyny, it's just crammed down my throat much less... Sort of like how I'm an atheist living in the Bible Belt, I'm constantly under attack by Christianity.. so it's no wonder I wouldn't be focused on escaping Judaism.

Here's the thing though, when ads like these pop up on a "family site" like Youtube, you know we have a problem:

Spoiler

See these ads? I've seen even worse. I could post them all but I'm pretty sure I'd get banned, they're that bad. Tip of the iceberg on how gaming culture, and more, lives in the past. Stuff like this is why feminism is needed. I'm tired of people confusing Feminism and Misogyny... That's like confusing the Abolitionists with the KKK. One is needed while the other is not. I just want this sort of thing to die out and everyone to be seen as equals... anyone recall that "I have a Dream" speech?

 

Exactly. Adverts like that are everywhere, but we don't need feminism because women are 100% equal and respected!

 

I believe in equality.

I've learned to despise the word "feminism". I've simply met/seen/heard far too many radical feminists, enough that I'd like the definition of the word to be changed to better represent what the advocates of the movement actually believe.

 

They're simply misinformed (or willfully ignorant), and usually have their own prejudices towards women. I've seen people say it needs to be more friendly towards men, or do away with its more radical elements, which sort of goes against what feminism stands for! Hopefully, they're just as outspoken against rapists, sexists, and others who are doing far more harm.

Freedom of speech, and all that.

 

I'm not against feminism.

I'm against misandry in the guise of feminism. I'm against focusing on non-issues like "manspreading" when there are real issues to be tackled. I'm against ignoring men's issues and dismissing any that are brought up.

I'm against judging all feminists on the basis of how some misandrists and extremists act. Would it be fair to judge any other group of people based on the actions of their extremists? If the answer is no, then why is it being done with feminists?

I'm also against imposing the word "feminism" on those who don't wish to be labeled that way. One can fight for equality without appending the word to themselves, and rather than focusing on the fact that they won't use a word that you like, how about focusing on the fact that they're fighting for the same things you are?

I'm against the implication that there are "no more issues" left for feminists to tackle because "we have equality". I agree that sometimes this seems to be the case when non-issues take the forefront, but you must also remember that what takes the forefront on Tumblr or on extremely liberal college campuses (which are nothing but bubbles that don't represent the "real world"--I would know, I've been in college for almost 7 years now) does not necessarily correspond to the issues that feminists offline are tackling. Abuse against women, rape and assault on college campuses, sexism in the workplace...just because these things are illegal doesn't mean that they don't still occur and that there are "no more issues". Illegality does not prevent these things from happening. It just means that that are tangible repercussions for these actions that can be sought. And there are also ways of discoursing them from occurring in the first place.

There are a lot of things that I'm against, but feminism alone isn't one of them.

 

I'm not against feminism.

I'm against misandry in the guise of feminism. I'm against focusing on non-issues like "manspreading" when there are real issues to be tackled. I'm against ignoring men's issues and dismissing any that are brought up.

I'm against judging all feminists on the basis of how some misandrists and extremists act. Would it be fair to judge any other group of people based on the actions of their extremists? If the answer is no, then why is it being done with feminists?

I'm also against imposing the word "feminism" on those who don't wish to be labeled that way. One can fight for equality without appending the word to themselves, and rather than focusing on the fact that they won't use a word that you like, how about focusing on the fact that they're fighting for the same things you are?

I'm against the implication that there are "no more issues" left for feminists to tackle because "we have equality". I agree that sometimes this seems to be the case when non-issues take the forefront, but you must also remember that what takes the forefront on Tumblr or on extremely liberal college campuses (which are nothing but bubbles that don't represent the "real world"--I would know, I've been in college for almost 7 years now) does not necessarily correspond to the issues that feminists offline are tackling. Abuse against women, rape and assault on college campuses, sexism in the workplace...just because these things are illegal doesn't mean that they don't still occur and that there are "no more issues". Illegality does not prevent these things from happening. It just means that that are tangible repercussions for these actions that can be sought. And there are also ways of discoursing them from occurring in the first place.

There are a lot of things that I'm against, but feminism alone isn't one of them.

 

Just to clarify my really angry post, I'm not against feminism. Just this current misandric wave of it....

 

I'm not one to jump into these debates but I just have to say that I really do agree with this bit here.

 

I'm completely open to changing my mind. I've just never seen anything by a feminist that was really convincing of anything. All their arguments are based on feelings and poorly done studies. I don't hate people, just what comes out of their mouth.

Now for the rights you bring up:

Access to reproductive health:

I did some quick research and...

According to the WHO, "reproductive health" is the pretty just somebody well-being, mentally, physically and sexually. Yeah, what are you trying to say? I'm going to assume to mean that mean have better health than women. Can you provide me with some stats for this? And a source aswell? Thanks.

Bodily autonomy in the eyes of the law:


I think you're referring to abortion, I guess. If so, don't quote me on this, this is from Wikipedia:
"The current judicial interpretation of the U.S. Constitution regarding abortion in the United States, following the Supreme Court of the United States 1973 landmark decision in Roe v. Wade, and subsequent companion decisions, is that abortion is legal but may be restricted by the states to varying degrees. States have passed laws to restrict late term abortions, require parental notification for minors, and mandate the disclosure of abortion risk information to patients prior to the procedure.[2]"

It's legal, unless in some circumstances, basically. You might have teeny tiny valid point here, but still, it's not like there aren't men in the world who don't like this, and women in the world who think this is right.

About STEM: here's the truth about why there aren't a lot of women in STEM:

Woman just aren't interested in going in science and math fields. There's no operative patriarchy stopping them, like some feminists claim. Actually there is no patriarchy, it's imaginary. I know you didn't mention this, but a lot of feminists I've argued with say that, and it's a crock of bullshit. It really is. I would like to see more girls in science fields too, but I think they way to go is encouraging girls to go, not putting women in there simply because of their genitals. It's sexist in a way, very sexist. It like saying " you as a woman are so dumb and incapable of achieving things on you own, that we're gonna put you here, because uh...societal pressure". Does that sound right to you? And no offense, mabye if we saw less women going for gender studies degrees which are useless, we would have more women in stem, and less women complaining about why they can't find a job.

How was my post "paranoid" I was stating the truth about the intersectional feminist cult, and how hypocritical they are. I stand with everything I said. I just have to apologize for the graphic image with the vaginal mutilation. That hit me hard, personally, because I know a lot of people like that, who suffer from it. I don't hate the idea that women should be euqal, just what's come of it. Women in the west are living like godesses compared to women in 3rd world and even first world middle eastern countries, like Saudi Arabia. They can be stoned to death for having sex before marriage, they can't drive, and their clitorises get cut off. Where are the feminists talking about this issues? Far and few in between. I can only think of Christina Hoff sommers from the top of my head. She's a real feminist, she cares about men and women's rights in 3rd world countries. Unlike these obese, bright hair coloured, virgin, hipsters with gender studies degrees. They make me hate the world. They make me ponder about entering the humanities when I get to university, considering how messed up they've made it. I'm being paranoid about the left controlling the media. That's actually true. Look at gamergate from a couple years ago. It was painted as a bunch of misogynistic gamers who hated women. However that wasn't the full picture. People who supported gamer gate were just gamers being accused of promoting rape culture and patriarchy and sexism in video games, just because two major feminists got death threat emails that were anonymous. For some reason they blamed the gaming community and the rest is history. You probabbly might have not heard of this, right?

I tend to get super mad and just say whatever comes up in my head when it comes to political issues like this. I used to be a bit of a hot head as a kid, and I guess this is what remains of it in my now gentle personality. I also don't form my thoughts very well, so yeah, it was a bit rambly, but I'm fine.

---------- Post added 11th May 2016 at 09:50 PM ----------

I see your point. The feminism I've exposed too is Tumblr-type feminism, so that's all I could go off in my angry post.... I'm not against feminism either just that particular dominant vocal brand of feminism...it's misandric, and shouldn't be taking seriously in academia, with unscientific, anti-intellectual gender studies courses.

 

You can be for equal rights without being a feminist. Something that feminists just find it hard to understand.
And yes, most people who are against feminism know the dictionary definition of it. They simply don't buy what feminism sell. I think you're a shit feminist if you say the word "patriarchy" without irony.

 

Also, most feminists like that, like to point to the dictionary when they know they've screwed up. Have you ever noticed that when feminism is standing up for some non existent problem they made up, it's a " empowering movement" and then as soon as people start seeing through it's bullshit and calling it out, it immeadiately becomes a "dirty word". Also, another reason why people hate feminism these days is because of how totalitarian and cult-like it is. It's often been called an Orwellian nightmare or a religion. It has bunch of celebrated leaders ( laci green, Anita sarkeesian, Marxist professors) and everything they say and do is accepted without question. And if you dare to criticize them, you either get blocked, they try to ruin your career, or call you names. It's almost like for them you can have " wrong opinions" which should be silenced and that only feminism can rule. They fail to provide any proper evidence, I think laci green went on record saying she doesn't need any but I'm not shure. People like Steve shives and that girl from decided on mtv, contradict themselves in their videos within a matter of seconds, AKA Doublethink. It's sad really, because these people are influencing kids, as young as 12, which is when kids usually start exploring on their own, and they are only given one point of view pretty much indoctrinating them. If that doesn't stop we'll have a whole generation of adults who just parrot feminist propaganda, In the next few years( as if we don't already, but still.)

 

I suppose I consider myself a feminist, not hardcore but I believe in equality for all. I think as it stands today everyone should be a feminist or supporting of it. That should be true until there's equality for all people and genders. If you don't want to identify as a feminist and prefer another label/movement to press equal rights that's cool. Anything's fine imo so long as your not being a discriminating jerk.

I do think it's sad the word has been twisted by radical crazies to promote misandry and increase prejudice. People who haven't educated themselves take this as how every feminist feels. I know you all have seen YouTube comments regarding this topic. Its not pretty. Its also disheartening when people say they dislike feminism because of the above people. They may be terrible but that's not what the intent of the movement was for.

It's just a shame a bunch of nutcases spoiled such an important idea.

 

I shouldn't have to be a feminist if I don't want to, but I can still believe in gender equality. I shouldn't have to be one just because it's your morality; radical feminists [the man-haters] are becoming increasingly common and really don't want to be around them*.

It's like how people might not belong to a religion, but might still want to believe in God and heaven. *That's why I've stopped going to church, because of all the LGBT-haters. Not sure there's as many LGBT haters at the possible churches I could go to, but it still makes me uncomfortable.

Rights [in the UK] women have but not men;
- Automatic right to have their children in event of divorce. If he wants the child he has to prove himself, but she doesn't.
- The choice to abort their child, but a man has to still pay a woman money to look after the child/raise it together even if he isn't ready to
- Right to have pensions sooner [men have to work about 5 years longer than women]
- If they are abused, women have a place to go, but only 2% of safe-spaces admit some men, 0% of safe places are for men only
- Men are often told they are ''not abused'' when a woman abuses him
- The right to wear skirts and dresses as a school uniform [women have the choice]
- The right to speak [if a white cis straight male tries to voice his opinion, he is often told his opinion doesn't matter]
- Women have a way of making it ''about them''. So if a boy is told he has to ''man up and cry'' that is somehow against femininity and women. But what they don't understand that in this moment is is the boy who is being told to stop crying, not a girl. We need to help the boy understand he can cry if he wants to, because girls can already do that.

Historical rights: [in the UK]
- Women had hanging stopped for them about 10 years sooner than men
- Women were allowed to be in homosexual relationships, but men were put in jail
- Women [had to] cook and clean, and if a man was in the kitchen the neighbors would look down on him. So even if he wanted to help, societal pressure [which was a lot more at the time] made him not.

I'm not against the ''good side'' of feminism that wants equal rights for all genders [although they only seem to focus on male and female] but I'd rather support is as separately from everything else.

Just how Muslims can still follow Islam, but despise everything ISIS are doing.

 

I agree with the original goal of feminism, equality between genders, but now I think that a lot of the movement has gone the wrong way. If we want true, full, equality, we need to address the issues faced by both men and ladies, instead of ignoring the problems of half the population. I think we should put more emphasis on seeing people as individuals rather than constantly saying "all men are like this" or "all women are like this". I don't call myself a feminist because of the current associations.