People Against Feminism..

That actually has nothing to do with equality honestly. most men are attracted to girls and of course someone could whistle when seeing a female which is totally inappropriate but thats not an argument.
Its like saying that most murder victims are male so women have it easier there..its bizzare and non logical,some things happen because they happen,there doesn't have to be a deeper meaning or explanation.

 

*raises hand*

I have. Granted it was by another man...and I found it really flattering...and I proudly told everyone about it afterward...

Wait, what point was I trying to make again? :dry:

 

For all that counts,I'm pretty sure I'm a trans woman

 

And? Most women are attracted to men, but you don't see us yelling "HEY SEXY, NICE DICK" from the pavement. And even if you did it would be extremely rare. It is not rare with women. Are you sure that gender has nothing to do with it?

Ah, sorry for misgendering you, I was just going off what I saw on your bio. My fault. Regardless of gender, though, it's still important to be aware of what women deal with.

 

I don't necessarily agree with 'idcidc', but it's important to remember that women are not as visual as men in that regard. Pornography is overwhelmingly aimed at men for a reason - women are much more likely to be aroused by something like Fifty Shades of Grey, than 'Snow White gets a helping hand from her 7 dwarfs'.

As most people will readily admit, men and women are not identical in every way. This doesn't mean cat-calling is fine, but it does explain why men cat-call women but the reverse isn't true. There are also societal standards at play - it's generally seen as 'weird' for women to be sexually upfront and aggressive, but for men it's fine. Women are always seen as the passive ones - not just by men, but by other women (and you are often your own worst enemy - I've lost track of the number of times I've heard girls call other girls 'whores', 'sluts', 'bitches' and god knows what else).

 

In such incidents there are ways and actions to do.still doesn't feel like a real argument considering males have problems as well.based of my experience males are more likely to be bullied especially when they are weak,soft and such stuff.that doesn't make girls better..its just a stain in society that we need to get rid of.

 

As for gender equality - strides are being made in that area every year, and in some cases the reverse is happening - women are 'overtaking' men. Men in their 20s earn less than their female counterparts, and girls do better than boys in education. I was reading a BBC article that said women begin to earn less than men when they have children.

So, it's not always as clear-cut as people like to make out.

 

Totally agree,I said something simiral before that statistically more females go to a university and have a deegre than males

 

I didn't read anything that you didn't say. I asked what you were trying to say because the statement didn't make much sense " access to more reproductive health". Thanks for clarifying. I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about reproductive health and abortion, because I don't, so you'll have to give me the sources of where you got that information from. But if what you're saying is correct, well, I guess that might be a legal thing in the law that men have over women. But then again, you said it is in some states, not all. It's not a national problem, just a little discrepancy in the law in some states. But Why don't you ever see feminists talk about this? Ever? Instead they just create problems that aren't there, and blame all men for it. And when you ask them to provide evidence for their claims, either they don't give any and ignore you, tell you to educate yourself, or the evidence they give just doesn't add up. I know a lot of people say that this is just radical feminists, but hey, those people are getting a lot attention these days, and influence, and it isn't any good.

I don't understand your comment on Jim-crow laws. All I said was that they are pro-choice men, and pro-life women. Where did Jim Crow come from? And are you actually going to compare that horror to the state of abortion in the USA?

On the STEM field issues:

I really wish I had time to listen to the podcast, but I don't. I'm way too busy. I'm not trying to brush you off, I really mean that, seriously.

Who is telling girls to be feminine? Who? Where are these people? Do they have influence over anything? I'm pretty shure they're are people out there who think all girls should be "feminine" but I highly doubt that's the majority. You mention you are in the tech field. How did you get in? it was by merit of actually studying STEM in school, right? Was there anything stopping you? Did you're family tell you to be more feminine? And how do you know that girls get rejected because of their name, and simply because of that?

I think you misunderstood my statement about putting women in there. You made it sound like I said women shouldn't be in STEM. OH GOD NOOO THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEANT. I was saying that women can join stem if they want too, and they won't have to care what anyone thinks. And this should be done by actually studying the sciences. Not because some people are pushing for equal representation. Too illustrate look what Justin Trudeau did. He made the cabinet 50/50 men and women. He did this for equal representation. But what did those women do to be in that position. Nothing. They weren't elected he put them there. It might sound nice at first but when you think of it, it's horribly sexist. He's basically saying that " you women are so helpless and incapable of become a MP, that I'll just put you there instead!" When asked why he did this, he said, because it's 2016 *sigh*

You know what, America is not a hivemind. Men are not a hive mind. Society is not a hivemind. We don't all think the same. You can't read my mind. You don't know what traits I consider nice. I don't think men are superior to women, I really think they're equal, Except in ways that we can't change ( biological, physical strength). Who ever said that women need to act more masculine to be successful? Oprah Winfrey dresses up a lot, she's really sassy, and she is a successful woman, and people love her. Same goes for Beyoncé, Ariana grande, the list goes on. Mabye you're talking about non-famous successful women. I don't know anybody if my life who is a woman who behaves more masculine than they do feminine, and is successful. Could you show me some proof of this? The same goes with everything else you claimed, especially that lineage part. Show me evidence of this, seriously. In the western world.

Ok, let's say that their is a patriarchy. Now what? What do we do? Dismantle it? And replace it with what? Are all men responsible for this patriarchy? Is the patriarchy social, or ecomic, or both, if so, then obviously there must be something wrong with a capitalist economy if it has a patriarchy. If it's so engrained in society, then it must be stopped, since it somehow harms women, and be replaced with... Like seriously, what?

I'm getting sick of these power structures such as " white priviledge" and and " the patriarchy", the love children of black supremacists, and intersectional feminism. They say it's all around and people who disagree ask for evidence, they say "it's just a fact that's all around us" then of that is so, why don't people who advocate this shoe an example? It all makes it sound like an idealogy, like a religion. Just telling us to believe with no evidence....

 

So far every argument made in this thread from either side is a remind of why I just say that I am an equalist rather than a feminist.
Equalism's definition better reflects what I support, though I am aware feminism is after very similar goals. I know so many people who have been negatively affected by feminist that they simply do not wish to associate with the word of those who claim to be one.

Feminist is not bad at its core. It kicked off a much need movement that women, and even men, needed. It has proven that women are just as capable as men and they they are often treated poorly by some pig headed dudes.
Buy lately it seems it is the radicals who are starting to call the shots and who are trying to degrade anyone who they don't see as "woman enough". (Trans-women, trans-men, men who are to masculine, men who are to feminine). Its the people who are pushing forth the cause while knowingly hurting someone else that is becoming your main problem. Once a movement starts discriminating against others its no longer about equality but supermacy, which is what most equal right movements try to avoid.

 

Exactly! Let's just say we are equalists and we want everyone to be equal.Sounds much better in my opinion and this wouldn't face so much hate like feminism does.

 

Like any movement, there are always extremists. But people always look at the loudest ones and judge the rest.

 

The thing is being an extremist in feminism is biased towards women
Being an extremist in equalism is biased towards..everyone
That's why equalism just sounds better to me

 

Exactly, the reason I continue to call myself a feminist is because I believe in the core ideals and I want to stay true to them. It does not mean that I support the radicals in any way, shape or form, because I dislike them as much as most "anti-feminists" do. I guess my not using "equalist" is a stubbon thing on my part.

And to be fair, there ARE societal influences on women telling us how we should look and what we should wear. I know that men are also a victim of this, I know, but it always seemed more pronounced for women. Everywhere you go, there's a makeup shop.

 

I think feminism is important because we still haven't reached the equality that we should have by this day and age. Current feminism is more than just about womens rights; its about all genders being equal and dads getting treated the same as moms and body positivity and racial equality and being acceptive and postitive in general. A lot of people, my brother included, get a bad view of feminism from the misandrists who call themselves feminists but I believe the taboo around feminism needs to disappear. I have friends who believe in equal rights but wont cal themselves feminists because its "too strong of a word"

 

feminism is a good thing. but the feminists of today are nothing like the feminist you had a couple of years ago. i see it as 25% good feminists and 75% bad feminists. Some of them have the most.stupid arguements that are also false most of the time. its the same with all those "anti racism" people that just throw "RACIST" or "RACISM" whenever a person of color is involved in something. people just use totally wrong accusations whenever.they feel like it and thats also what feminists do

this is just what i think

 

The thing is these extreme feminists do all the work,good or bad.you can be a feminist but if you do nothing to make feminism look better than its current state things are just gonna get worse.

 

Feminists are good.
Extreme Feminists are bad.

 

I don't get it. Early suffragettes and first wave feminists weren't popular at all with the public. They were seen as "radical" and imprisoned. When did it become about being "nice" and not offending anyone?

It certainly wasn't "mainstream" or "hip". I don't agree with everything about it (a very broad movement), but think it's still needed. When men have to worry about being assaulted by their (female) dates, or honor killings and abortions target males, then things might be "equal", though personally, I'd rather have no one have to worry about that.

 

I'm sorry, can you name one prominent modern feminist who actually gives damn about dads getting treated the same as moms? People get the idea that most feminists are misandrists, because they pretty much are for the most part. The feminists that ate kiss druses have the most fans/followers. And they say a lot of the most stupid shit that has probabbly been ever said in the history of mankind. This is pretty much analogous to how "most Muslims" aren't Islamist terrorists or support Islamist terrorism, when there polls reveal that about 40(something) % of French Muslims support jihadism, and it was around that same number in other European countries, and other Muslims say that they are the bad eggs, while they are being peaceful and practicing Islam correctly.

Basically, it's the no-true Scotsman fallacy.

---------- Post added 14th May 2016 at 09:12 AM ----------

I'm sorry, can you name one prominent modern feminist who actually gives damn about dads getting treated the same as moms? People get the idea that most feminists are misandrists, because they pretty much are for the most part. The feminists that ate kiss druses have the most fans/followers. And they say a lot of the most stupid shit that has probabbly been ever said in the history of mankind. This is pretty much analogous to how "most Muslims" aren't Islamist terrorists or support Islamist terrorism, when there polls reveal that about 40(something) % of French Muslims support jihadism, and it was around that same number in other European countries, and other Muslims say that they are the bad eggs, while they are being peaceful and practicing Islam correctly.

Basically, it's the no-true Scotsman fallacy.

---------- Post added 14th May 2016 at 09:12 AM ----------

And yes, I'm saying that feminism pretty much functions as a religion/cult:

They have their leaders who are always right no matter what ( Anita sarkeesian,lack green, etc.)
They have their own scripture( gender studies textbooks, and poorly done studies.)
They have their own unquestionable beliefs( all women are oppressed, men are evil)
They have their original sin ( being born a straight white male)
They have their own mythology( patriarchy, rape culture, 1 in 5 college rapes, gender-pay gap)
They try to convert you ( I need feminism because..., why you should be a feminist)
They are vocal about their beliefs ( college protests)
They have terms for people who disagree with them in the slightest( rape apologist! Misigynist! Supporter of the patriarchy!, come to mind)
They shut down all arguments ( deleting videos, blocking comments, speech codes, telling people to "educate themselves", or "read a book")
They try force their batshit crazy agenda into public education ( gender studies, teach men not to rape seminars, safe spaces)
They are authoritarian and want to reign supreme ( everything i just said pretty much pints to this, so...)
And finally,
Earlier forms of feminism had it's ugly side too( suffragette terrorists, second wave man Haters who called for the elimination of all men. These are almost never mentioned at all today, I wonder why...)