Ok, so I counted to ten just not to write something less nice here. But my heartbeat is still strong after reading this... Anyway, would it be okay to say this to a teenager who realizes at fifteen that he/she is gay? I wonder. Or for the teenager is okay to be in a same-sex relationship and explore his sexuality but for older people it's not okay because we have to follow social norms? Like the ones related to marriage and so on? I mean heterosexuality is still the social norm, so then we should tell the teenager too that he should conform and that it's not okay for him to explore his sexuality. I might have misunderstood what you meant, but I have to be honest, I went through all these emotions when I read it. Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why should we live with regrets? I know I'm not married and don't have children and there are some perspectives I could never tap into. I just know that my mother was always telling me that she is so happy that I didn't make the same mistakes she made in life. Something like "I didn't want you to end up like me". So if felt to me that she was regretting a lot of stuff and that was an awful feeling for me. It really influenced my life a lot...in not necessarily a positive way. My mother thought it doesn't matter if she is unhappy and anxious and not true to herself, as long as she "gives me all I need". Thing is, even if she tried, and did her best, those emotions, her unhappiness and anxiety is here with me still and shaped who I am...I didn't need her to give me "all I need", I just needed her to be happy, content, to love herself. Sorry for this long explosive reaction here, but I felt I had to write this down. (*hug*)
I think CC is meaning is gender/sex enough of a reason to cheat/open a relationship/get a divorce. Lots of people look at it as "just" another preference. It's kind of a question of want vs need. To me.
Hey darling! I do think you might have missed what I was trying to say. I meant for those people who are bi, not gay, and who are in loving, committed relationships. When is another gender a preference? When is it a want vs. a need? And how different is our regret that we didn't get to sleep with (or don't currently get to sleep with) XX or XY any more or less important than the regret that we never went to college, or never opened a grocery store, or any other midlife regret? These are questions every thoughtful bi person must answer for themselves: I certainly can't tell them.
TT, I had the same reaction. To me it is not about preference it is about who we are inside, what makes us happy, what we want----because for some of us, like me for example and my mother, I lived a life according to what other people told me I should be doing who I should marry, who I should love....I did not follow my heart. I followed the norm, my parents wishes and married a man and had children because it it what I was told to do. Who I was shaped to be. I did not allow myself to feel openly and acknowledge my love for my best friend, a female, who I had been in love with since I was 14. I had loved her before I even knew my husband existed....if I would have followed that love, let is grown, acknowledged it, who knows where I would be now. I would not take back my kids for anything in this world, they are my little lights. But I do wish that I would have followed my heart and not followed the herd....
TTT, my statement was intentionally provocative, it's true. However, please allow me to clarify that it was intended for bi people who are happily coupled. If you are UNhappily coupled, or are more on the gay side, my statement does not really apply. Because regardless of whether gender is "merely" a sexual preference and not a dictum, you will wish to leave your coupled situation regardless. Yes, I wish EVERYONE felt free early in life to live whatever gender and sexuality they chose. Of course. Of course. Of course. And I wish that people could easily leave unhappy marriages. Of course! That all kind of goes without saying on a site like this. But for those of us where there is an element of choice, we must weigh how important that choice is. If we are also adults with existing relationships, then those must also be taken into account. I hope that clarifies my point.
CC- I am more and more not considering myself bisexual, but gay. I still felt your post was thought provoking. I am married to my absolute best friend. Unfortunately he has a penis, and as ive grown ive more and more realized the reason i have not been ableI0 to love him the same as he loves me cause I am gay. Weve become open about this, and where it puts us as a married couple. For me, its still a matter of choosing which regret to deal with. Especially considering ive no relationship experience with women. WHAT IF i left my husband to persue true happiness only to determine that wasnt true happiness? (HIGHLY UNLIKELY BUT STILL) This isnt about just me, i have four kids and a husband that loves me to the end of the earth. Is it worth destroying a minimum of five lives for the sake of my happiness? Especially when ive lived the majority of my life unhappy,?? These are my unanswered questions that I'll have to make light of soon. Just wanted to say your post did not make me angry but put it into a differrnt perceptive of which regrets we choose to live with. My heart physically aches at the thought of never bring in a loving relationship with a woman, but it hurts the same at the thought of destroying a great many lives and shattering my husbands heart.
You have understood what I was trying to say exactly. I am sorry we must all go through this pain. But I do think we owe it to ourselves and to our partners to consider even thoughts that make us uncomfortable or throw our desires into an unflattering light. Of course, for most people, realizing they are gay or bi is ALREADY confronting thoughts that make them deeply uncomfortable! It was for me. If you're in this mindset, then my statement that following our sexuality may be a choice and not a dictum is like squeezing lemon on a wound. But that doesn't make it less true for some of us. Each of us must come up with different answers.
This reminds of the well known "is sexuality a choice" debate. Also I read on some other forums people stating that it's not a choice except if you are bisexual. I always thought this is ignorant and untrue to say about bisexual people but now I'm starting to see it otherwise. Also it depends about your definition of what bisexuality is. For some people if you had sex/ were in a relationship with the opposite sex you are bisexual. Even if sexually and romantically you never felt "at home" in the relationship. That's why I hate labels. I was/am also in a relationship with my best friend. And I don't think I am regretting knowing him, being with him, on the contrary. It was the best choice I could have made at that certain point of my life with that certain mindset and information that I had back then. But now, in this moment circumctances changed and I cannot continue. I love him but NOW I cannot be myself in the relationship with him. Does it help to analyze if I have always been gay or not to make the decision about what I will do NOW, about how I feel now? I realized it doesn't help. What if I "wasn't gay" when I was 15, 25 and I am gay now? Who cares? Really, for me it is about allowing myself to be who I truly am now and now I am more gay than straight. Will I ever regret my choice? I don't know. But when/if I do I am free to make other choices. But then, I won't be able to go back to be with him again. Probably not, but I don't think we can ever "go back" anyway. From the perspective of our desire now to be with a woman we look back at our relationship and say maybe "how nice it was before, I want to continue". But you can't go back to where you were blind to your desire or you haven't had this desire. On the other side, will I ever regret it if I will sit and watch my life go by just because it's more socially acceptable to continue in a ltr? Of course I will. I understand that for some this sounds like a choice because they are in happy marriages and that's cool. And in case you have equal attraction towards men an women then maybe choosing men or women really is like choosing a blonde or a brunette. But for me right now it is about finally allowing myself to be fully me and that's way more that just choosing. For me it's about choosing to be happy or not.
I don't think it's a secuality choice debate. For me, personally, I will always be gay, and have at least a knowledge that idea for a very long time. What has changed for me is putting all these pieces together and realizing what they mean. If I choose to stay with my husband, does that make me less gay, or bisexual? I don't think so. Tho I know others do and i, for a very long time thought I COULDN'T be gay because I was married to him. So am I making a choice to be straight or bi if I live hetero life? Or am I choosing how to deal with my life choices regardless of my sexual orientation. I think we are all at different places in our coming out process, which has caused different reactions to CCS post. I am still very unsure of how long or if I can continue to live this way, unsure of my ability to come out, etc. For me I feel talking openly to myself and my spouse has helped me to be more of who I am. I don't necessarily believe my husband holds me back from being my true self, the lies of spewed about who I am to cover up my true self is what has held me back, and will continue to do so until I can process all this. Maybe when I get to the point where I feel open with myself conpletely, it'll be that I can't be happy with my husband. But for now, I cannot regret my children or my relationship with him. I I have always felt regret about never getting to be with a woman. Im battling why I should explore that when it's always been a regret, or longing I've carried with me. A lot of my choices regarding my life (not my sexuality) are based in fear right now. So I know I am seeing things much differently than a lot of you. I also don't believe my life is solely for my own happiness, I can't currently in good conscious sacrifice so many people's happy, for mine. In all aspects of my life I have always set aside my needs/wants for others happiness and I am struggling very much with changing these thought processes. Am not sure I want to at times. Ones happiness will always take away someone else's. ---------- Post added 1st Oct 2015 at 07:22 AM ---------- I guess others have had the experience of falling for a best friend, or another female in their lives and letting that guide them, in a way. I've not experienced that. I only recently realized the feelings I had for a best friend 13yrs ago were more than platonic. How can I disrupt all of my families entire life (even extended family as my husbands side of the family is very close with us) for an imaginary person I may be able to fall for completely? I've never had a woman even outwardly attracted to me let alone have dated one. I'm very much struggling with leaving the comfort of a great friendship I married and ruining that friendship for a maybe with a woman I've never met. We talked last night, he said it feels like we are dragging out the inevitable, he may be right. But I'd rather drag it out I know completely that I am making the right choice and I am not destroying my husband in the process. He agrees it's less painful this way. Gives the possibility that we can more naturally separate emotionally and maintain our fantastic friendship. Idk, started talking a lot lol early morning and we had a lot of talking last night and it's still on my mind.
Ladies, I truly think none of us disagree with each other! Everyone must go through this journey, and we are going to come up with answers that reflect our own lives and sexualities. For me, a big question for myself was whether or not I need to be with a woman, given all my other life circumstances and my views of what that signifies. (Which I believe is basically the same question we are all asking!). My answer is no. For now. For me it is a want, not a need. It is a deeply felt want, that causes me a lot of stress and pain. This thread is a question: when is it not enough? Everyone has their own answer. I cannot answer for you nor would I presume to.
I think for some who have a longing to be with a woman, but haven't yet, for whatever reason, don't really have a knowing of how actually getting to do it will affect them. I had a secret longing to be with a woman for years, but never even thought it would be a possibility, until 6 months ago, when me and my best friend, who did have an emotional relationship already, spent an amazing night together and there was no turning back for either of us. That was 6 months ago. We have an amazing bond and relationship. Though I tolerated life with my husband for nearly 8 yrs, I never felt like I was in love with him, or wanted the relationship stuff. I tolerated having sex once in a great while but never enjoyed it. With her, its completely different and Ive never had the feelings I have now before in my life. I cant get the bond & emotional connection I have with her from a man ever, and now that we have this relationship I never want to go back. So back to before I had ever been with her, I had a longing to be with a girl, but I truly had no idea just how strongly it would affect me and my life and how amazing the feeling is to finally get that bond/connection ive always longed for.
This is not exactly my main question, maybe this is why we see things differently. Sure, it's one of the questions, but not the main, decisive one. Honestly, in this moment I cannot see myself in a relationship. A serious one I mean. (Even though I'm technically still with my bf, well, if it still counts as a relationship but this is a question for another thread maybe ) I just want to be me, and I cannot be myself by continuing like this. I want to explore myself, and hey, maybe next year I'll be with a man (though I highly, highly doubt it) What I personally need is to allow myself the freedom to be me. To make mistakes. To stay with the uncertainty. To freaking live I get that we all have different answers to these questions. And that's amazing that we are able to discuss them here. This is also a challenge for me, to be able to have my own perspective without needing the others around me to reflect the same thing. Not easy but I need these challenges I think you are making amazing progress, just the fact that you got to this realization is more than a lot of people ever let themselves to get. I mean the part with italic. As for the last sentence, I have to disagree here, I think all the people that love you want you to be happy. And above this, I think someones happiness is the cause of others happiness, who are around that person. I think, and know from experience that people can feel the unhappiness around them, the anxiety, and it affects them greatly. I've always felt my mothers constant anxiety and fear and it kind of transposed itself to me, I carried it for a long time - hopefully not anymore, though still fighting with it. All that said, I think rushing things is not helpful to anyone. It's just that self sacrifice is not the answer, in my opinion. It can even be felt by other people, like they are caught into a trap. I always felt trapped when my mother was talking about her self sacrifice. I felt tremendous guilt plus desperate wish for her to start living her life and follow her happiness to finally let me go. So I can be finally happy to and live my life. I'm not saying here that you are doing these things, I just felt the need to share this, it might help to see things from another perspective Nicely put
I think for all of us there is an element of choice. I define myself as bi at this time in my life Bc I am married to a man but have I have had feelings for women before. But that is my default "label". I hate labels. This is the path in life I have "chosen", marriage to a man, kids. "Chosen", conditioned I am not sure. Do I need to be with a man or need to be with a woman to be ok, no I don't. Do I feel an awful sense of regret and sadness Bc at almost 40 I have finally allowed myself to acknowledge feelings that I have had since I was at least 14 but am now in a position where making the choice to openly acknowledge them and pursue them is more difficult-yes I do. It's not just me. I have a family to think about, kids, a husband. It's not just as simple as do I have this desire that I must satisfy---for me it's more about the sadness of me realizing that for basically my entire life I might have been living a lie. I may have been living someone else's life....
Yup, I'm totally in this boat right now. Not being able to act on these feelings is tough and it does cause a lot of stress and pain. :bang:
This really punched me in the gut... wow. :icon_sad::eusa_clap On the one hand it is so wonderful to hear so many others who have felt that they were denying lifelong feelings, who felt the same pressure I always felt to conform. And on the other hand when I think about the world that was around me then, the shame I would have had to endure, the feeling like an outcast, the hatred from complete strangers that I would have been subjected to... I feel so angry and disgusted and realize how much of that has been bottled up inside me, driving me away from people and toward a life of solitude where I don't have to face anyone's judgment... :bang::tears:
Leaving a solid relationship and someone you love for the chance to go out and meet someone you can love and build a solid relationship with is exactly one of the issues/questions that makes me feel silly and not want to end things with my fiancée. It sucks in a way to think that well maybe if I met somebody else first, it would feel like a more valid reason to leave. But that probably has more to do with my fear of being alone than anything else. I don't know. Sometimes I think my relationship is heading in a direction where it's too damaged to continue anyway, regardless of my sexuality questions.
I've found it useful to take my view of something and turn it over as though it was a coin, to see what might be on the other side. I can sure relate to years (40, in my case) of being alienated from a vital part of myself, so in my mind I continued your last sentence and what came to me was, "...but where I don't get to experience anyone's acceptance." When I started coming out several years ago, I found an accepting community for the person I was at that time... and my path led into marriage with my husband. And then it started becoming real clear that that wasn't enough either. So far I have the acceptance of my husband and my (also bisexual) former wife to seek some way to have my needs met in a way that does not hurt myself or anyone else... and it sure doesn't look easy. The risk in telling anyone what's really going on inside me is that they won't understand/approve/tolerate my present truth, and the fear of that rejection can be paralyzing. That's why I'm so grateful for this community. It offers me the security of being able to speak as freely as I wish/dare in a way I'm not yet able to face-to-face. I sure feel the desire/urge to retreat into isolation sometimes, but staying there, for me, would be a permanent solution to a temporary problem. If there are online folks here who accept even my provisional, tentative, fragile sense of who I am, I gotta believe that there are also flesh-and-blood folks who would accept me in person... even if I'm not sure how to connect those dots, which can seem so very far apart...
Thank you... I have been thinking about this. Actually there is a gay couple at work that I have opened up to recently and there is a work event celebrating Coming Out Day on October 11. I already decided I am going, and I plan to reach out to the people there. I am getting tired of "knowing" how people will respond to me. I am tired of being invisible and not letting my voice be heard. I am scared but I feel like something inside me is pushing me through the closet doorway...
