What exactly is the difference between pan and bi? If they’re the same why was the pan label added?

This is sort of where I get hung up myself. Hannah, you are aware of my orientation confusion, and Nameer sort of voices what ends up happening as a result of that confusion. Default is pan for me because it's easy to get the point across, but I'd be lying if I said there were not nuances and differences in how I attract to the different sex, maybe not genders, but sexes. I'm still unsure if this alone disqualifies me from being pan, so much as it's preferences within the label? I think there is some allowance, but I'm still young enough to travel this confusing road a bit longer I think. Short answer, I'm Pan, want the long answer? Do you have an hour and some headache medication?

 

Idk, I just feel angry at the notion that "bisexual" means not attracted to trans people or even "transphobe". Bisexuality is a quite old notion that someone is attracted to more than one gender. It's a very broad and general term. And now everything is being labelled as transphobic for no reason. I hate how everything has to be so politicised. Obviously, I'm progressive when it comes to social things, but politics is also not the main trope in my life and that somehow is a reason to attack. That I go on with my day and have other issues and interests and that I'm not constantly preoccupied with politics. Honestly, it isn't a healthy state of mind to be preoccupied with just one thing and never take a break and never distance yourself from it and to have just one social circle. It makes a person very stressed and psychologically dependent. *angry rambling over*

 

I'm not sure why anyone would presume that bisexual, or any orientation at all, for that matter, could be anything phobic, let along transphobic. Who we are attracted to romantically and sexually has nothing to do with being phobic towards anyone. Are lesbians manphobic? I think people are starting to read way to much into who we are and are not attracted to. Acceptance has never been about, nor should it ever be about, who we want to fuck.

 

effectively, pan is a flavour of bi. a specific way to feel attraction as a bi person or a way to say it in a "more militant" way. at the end of the day, you're attracted to both sides of the spectrum.
that said, it's anybody's right to call themselves pan rather than bi and to think the difference is worth mentioning.

at this point I'd say it's more about semantics tbh. I've never met a self-identified bi person that wouldn't date a trans or nb person.

 

I don't think I conveyed what I meant very well, I'm sorry!
I took the OP question to mean "why do thew two terms bi and pan exist?" And in my opinion, "bisexual" is a very old term that was coined in the days when people were VERY binary in their thinking - that there were two genders and basically two sexualities!
More recently (in history) people have realised the limitations of the term "bi" (meaning "two") and have developed new words to describe the whole spectrum of sexualities.
Much like Western music used to be divided into pop and classical! Now there are thousands of genres - they always existed but now their names are more commonly known.
Of course we all USE the terms in our own different ways regardless of when or what they were invented for.
I certainly wasn't meaning to sound transphobic - I just meant that the word "bisexual" seems (to me) kind of exclusionary i.e implying two genders. But again I can be a bit pedantic with words and do tend to take things too literally.

 

I agree it is more about semantics..
What is strange to me is that I HAVE met a bi person who stated they wouldn't date a trans person. I was shocked and I don't understand it at all but they DO exist (one does at least).

 

I agree with Canterpiece explanation above. Pan is a bit more generic in my view and can be easily misunderstood as well.

 

I read that the term "pansexual" was created due to a misunderstanding about bisexuality. Bisexuality has always been inclusive of trans and gender non-conforming people. The Bisexual Manifesto from 1990 says "Do not assume that bisexuality is binary or duogamous in nature (...). In fact, do not assume that there are only two genders". If someone is attracted to men and women, why would they not be able to be attracted to non-binary people? If someone is attracted to cis men and women, why would they not be able to be attracted to women and men who are trans?

I also believe that sexual orientation is based more on sex rather than gender. Sexuality is biological and hard-wired, so I think your body reacts to someone's sex and not how they identify as. So bisexuality would mean being attracted to both sexes, just like homosexuality is being attracted to the same sex.

That being said, I'm not telling pansexuals that they have to stop identifying as pansexual. Let people label themselves however they want. I just wanted to point out how bisexuality is misunderstood.

 

From what I've interpreted it in the past, bisexual is attracted to both sexes and pansexual is attracted to both sexes regardless of gender identity. I guess I could be considered pansexual, but I just say I'm bisexual because more people understand the meaning of bisexual better. Not all bisexuals are pansexual, but all pansexuals are some flavor of bisexual.

 

Unless it's someone who says they are "super straight" this is true. Being someone who is straight but isn't attracted to trans people isn't inherently transphobic, some pople have a preference and that's ok, but someone saying they're "super straight" is being transphobic. Why, you may ask? In this label of sorts anyone using it thus implies that trans people like myself aren't our real gender. That is automatically problematic

 

I don't get it. Probably because I've never heard the term "super straight" other than someone doubling down on their heterosexualness to emphasize the point that they have no other leanings or desires for anyone other than a cis person of the opposite sex. Unless there is an urban dictionary definition of the term that supposes another meaning?

 

That does help me understand it a bit more, but what if the attraction/orientation is based on biology? I will use a straight woman and a lesbian woman as examples. I have literally watched a straight woman's facial expression and reaction to the very idea of oral sex with another woman in how they see it as disgusting or gross, and therefore cannot see themselves with a woman. This, I imagine for many straight people, is one reason why they consider themselves straight to begin with. So in your example, a trans woman pre, or even partially transitioned, would effectively be a serious problem for say, a straight man or a gay woman. Does this mean they are transphobic? Even if they are supportive of trans rights and freedoms?

 

No, not necessarily. So not everyone is down to date/hookup with someone trans, and that's fine- that's someone's personal business. However, there are people who would still not date a trans person that's had lower surgery that they found attractive prior to that knowledge. If the sole reason that they wouldn't date that person is that they're trans, and not a preference in what parts their partner has, that is when it crosses into transphobia. So for example: a trans man has been on testosterone for seven years and has had both top and bottom surgery. He meets a woman, they go on a few dates and things are going well. One day he finally works up the courage to tell her that he's trans and has had the surgeries. She ends things because she isn't attracted to any trans men, regardless of any transition steps, because she really sees trans men as women deep down. Does that kind of make sense?

 

I probably spend too much time trying to decipher what my own orientation is, and what criteria and influences might skew my attractions one way or another. I think I have a genuine fear of being transphobic. What the hell does that even mean, is that something weird like, transphobicphobia? :-/ I don't believe I have internalized homophobia, because I don't find sex acts between anyone of any orientation or gender disgusting or gross. I admit I have an aversion to penis's but it's not so much because I think they are gross or anything, as much as it's where guys want to stick those things. (I mean in me.) I appreciate the responses Rain and Jack, I am learning a lot on these topics. *hugs* Nomi