On becoming "less of a man"

That is an interesting question for me as well, I guess we will have to see. Looking at past civil rights movements such as the black community or latino's, really about every ethnic group -- there still remains a sense of pride and community there for many years but it begins to be less and less so.

We will still most likely be known for our drag shows, our extravagant Prides, etc -- however it will likely become much more of an inclusive thing for all people while it becomes more a part of the American equation rather than an outlier. This is beginning already, but much more so once we achieve equal provisions more and more under the law.

 

For a long time I thought I couldn't possibly be a gay girl because I'm so feminine. The other night I almost cried when I couldn't find my favorite lipstick - like, have you heard of a lesbian doing that? So yeah, I think this does apply for lesbians as well.

Here in my Republican-dominated town, the mindset tends to be "if a girl's a lesbian and she's feminine, she's only doing it for attention." And while I'm not out yet, I doubt I'll put down the makeup once I'm out. My feminine nature is just as much a part of me as my preference for girls is.

On a somewhat related note, it seems like I've seen some gay men who pride themselves in being "straight acting" and look down on more feminine guys. Does this actually happen? If so, what do you guys make of this?

 

I think that we are all different, and we should respect how we look and our personalities. I repeat: WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT.

 

Ive found that as Ive gotten older, matured a bit, and experienced more things, I am more and more comfortable with my masculinity. I used to really want to assert it, like I had something to prove. Never acted like I was straight, but just tried to match if not outdo the macho-ness of my friends / neighbors. I had a whole bad boy, you cant tell me nothing, kind of attitude going for a minute. But I was a total nerdy, insecure, neurotic kid underneath it all. All a front.

But as Ive grown up a bit, and experiencing more and more and really just gotten more comfortable with my abilities and myself in general, not just my sexuality, I've felt less and less inclined to try to prove my masculinity to anyone. I still slip into it sometimes, but that usually has to do with who im with and what we're talking about that triggers that bad boy city kid thing in me. Its not how I identify anymore though.

A book that I found that was really interesting to read and on the topic of homosexuality masculinity is Androphilia by Jack Malebranche.

But as its been said a gazillion times before, diversity is great. We need our hyper masculine gays, we need our flamboyant girly gays and drag queens, and we need all the gays who fall in between that no one would ever knew where gay if they werent open about it. Thats what makes not just gays, but life in general, so great, that diversity of people and expression. And seriously, what a terrible world it would be without drag shows, over the top pride parades, and all that other wonderful stereotypical gay rainbows and glitter stuff. I embrace all that, even if i dont always identify with it. Its entertaining yeah, but its all also there for a reason, and as ridiculous as it gets, it deserves respect for that at least.

 

This has been a wonderful thread -- thanks to all involved in it. I just hope it stays around and the right people see it, at the right time.

 

I used to live with this preconception, I thought because I'm gay I'm not enough of a man, but at the same time, being gay has made me worry less about coming across as manly. Now I don't really care but my masculinity, I've kinda just got over this thought, I've also released the people who said I'm on a man, aren't an example of what a real man should be

 

Excellent post, RainbowMan. This helped me a lot. All of my closer male friends are "guy's guys," if you know what I mean, and I can't ever see that changing. I also can't imagine coming out to them as not totally straight (I don't even know what to label myself) but I guess that's something I have to work on.

 

Great discussion!

It's another one of those issues that has compounded confusion for me. I am so glad to see more male couples being portrayed on tv etc but don't feel that there are any characters that really resemble me-right or wrong theres still stereotypes that are in place in all of them.

With more actor's (Matt Bomer for example) and athletes coming out that either have or portray characters with a strong since of masculinity I feel the time is coming. I had a drink with a long talk with a guy a few years ago who exhibited many of the stereotypes..he was incredibly nice but he said more then once through our conversation that I "didn't seem gay at all" and that notion just kind of perpetuates things to me..

 

This is another interesting topic (lol i start all replies like this don't I... *facepalm*)

Alot of people think I am becoming more and more feminine as I've come out, but in reality im just an introvert who was keeping myself inside and only showing my femininity at home, or around 1 or 2 people.

I don't really think im worried about appearing less manly. I'd rather just live my everyday as a person than think "im a man, act like one". Im not worried about what people think about how I act, as long as I'm happy with it. Im probably at like 55% feminine, 20% masculine, 25% ambiguous. I don't really like sports or violence or anything that some people consider "masculine" so i cant really say i agree with alot of people in this thread xD

I do understand it... it just doesn't apply to me.

Im envious though... Somedays i want to wake up and be that kind of gay guy that can throw a football and be like "Yeah, i like dudes, so what? U mad bro?" (without the sometimes douche-baggy attitude...) but at the end of the day thats not me xD

 

I can certainly relate to this. I'm no jock, but I love basketball (NCAA and NBA) and tennis, which I used to play some. I also love cars—had a 1963 Jaguar for awhile that I sold a few years ago. My sense of humor and taste in books and movies are the same as all of my straight friends. That's why I have had no problem passing as straight for so long.

I have often wondered the hell people were talking about when they speak of the LGBT community. Yes, we have some important things in common with one another, but I certainly don't want to be defined solely in terms of my sexuality. For the most part, I don't want to be defined by any sort of label, sexual or otherwise. I just want to be who I already am. I'm already bi (and leaning more and more toward gay) and yet have developed into the person I am. I see no need to change.

On the other hand, I would makes a couple of comments. First, I have lately been discovering a powerful feminine presence within me, and I quite like it. I feel like I have dropped certain built-in defenses that were vestiges of my internalized homophobia. I don't worry about sending out "straight" signals. When I'm cleaning up in the kitchen after dinner, I think I notice a slight limp in my wrist and swish in my step and want to break into a rendition of "I Enjoy Being a Girl" (kidding about hat last bit).

Also, I noticed that the men I'm attracted to have a slightly feminine quality. Or at least I think of it as "feminine" in the same way as I have discovered the feminine within myself. (I have wondered lately what would happen if I met a guy I liked but discovered he was as much a bottom as I am! What would we do? Hire a top to fuck us both? LOL.)

And this relates to something I saw on another post today and was going to comment on, but then I couldn't find it again. Someone was talking about looking at straight porn and just wanting to see the pleasure on the woman's face. Yes! Exactly! I realized that I want to be the woman in those videos. Freud talked about penis envy, but he didn't mention vagina envy. I definitely have it.

 

I'm glad I don't have this problem.
I wear a my little pony hoodie to a middle school. So yeah..

 

Be you.

 

I'm a female, "lipstick lesbian" and I think this applies to me in some ways too. There have been times when I've thought I'm too girly to be a lesbian, which is a weird thought really isn't it? I like my long blonde sweepy hair, I like my makeup, I like my dresses, a lot of the company I keep are other women around my age who are mostly straight and feminine...

The only really "boyish" traits I probably have are my sense of humor which is sometimes quite brutal in that dry, british sort of way and that I'm a gamer. But who decides what's a guy's hobby and what's a woman's hobby hm???

Anyway back on topic, there have been times in clubs when other lesbians have just took one look at me and I know in their minds they're thinking "well this one is clearly straight". When I've told people before that I'm gay I've had a lot of responses that go something like "are you sure? you don't seem it?" and a lot of the time that response has come from gay men and other lesbians, which is disheartening. Why should I have to fit stereotypes?

I know the stereotypes exist for a reason. Most stereotypes are just extremely exaggerated versions of the average. I think that rule applies for the LGBT community too. There's nothing wrong with that really, its about the environment and the community, and in our case possibly to do with our brain state since homosexuality is obviously innate.

But there's so much diversity too. So must we expect those qualities in a person? and be distrustful if we don't see it? :dry:

 

The notion that being gay would make you "less of a man" is as ridiculous as the notion that liking sports makes you "more of a man", and I hope that eventually people get past that. The fact that I throw like a girl and can recognize a 1959 Buick from the tailfin design without having the slightest ability to change its oil shouldn't make me more or less of a man. How about being ethical and honest? Strong-willed and committed? Searching for truth and justice and standing up for those who need us to? Being able to leap a moral dilemma in a single bound would seem to be more impressive and more "manly" (or "womanly" for that matter) than being able to leap a tall building in one. I'm with Kenaz. Be YOU.

 

Interesting subject!