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In so much turmoil...

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by detroitlouisred, Aug 4, 2022.

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  1. Ryan77

    Ryan77
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    Best.
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    Ever.

    I see you, bud. I'm here to tell you that the confusion goes away. Sometimes the shame lingers longer than we want, but the confusion goes away.

    You're probably going to struggle with this for awhile due to its complexity, but I have a couple of hopes for you in the meantime that you can keep in your pocket for a rainy day:

    1. You are more than the label of sexuality you are searching for. There is way more to you than your sexuality. We are keen to label things in order to classify and understand them, but as complex and sophisticated as the human condition is, that is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE when dealing in sexuality. I choose to focus more on what I'm doing when I'm NOT living my sexual life - I'm a son, an uncle, a friend, a leader, a musician, a video game enthusiast, a dog owner, a runner; lots of other things that I can ground myself in. Make that list of other things you are and keep them around as a reminder when the confusion kicks in.

    2. Shame is real, and speaking truth to it helps manage it. I'm not saying this is your case, but it was for me. I was ashamed about being the gay son that wouldn't produce any children for my parents. To be honest, I still am. I never wanted to have a boyfriend while my grandparents were alive to avoid the shame I would feel in telling them. It is a POWERFUL driving force, that shame, and the source of anxiety, depression, and a myriad of other destructive behaviors that, in turn, I feel ashamed about....

    The day I could admit that I was ashamed about all of this was the day I started focusing on the source of that shame and addressing that instead of whirling around the pinpoint triggers of it.

    I'm here to tell you; it gets better. Someday you'll just come to the understanding with yourself that you might just love everything about the female form but like it just a little better aesthetically with a penis on it. When that no longer triggers shame, it's mind blowing.

    3. Porn is not real. It's gratifying to watch because it feeds a primal part of our anatomy, but the biochemical reaction in our bodies is pretty immutable. Porn, though, is not a direct reflection or representation of your reality. Reference the gay-for-pay movement; plenty of straight men who make out with men, who act as power-bottoms, who do so with erections, who orgasm from the contrived experience, but who also go home to their wife and children with the cash from their endeavors and have no intent of ever being gay. I see them more like professional athletes that do extraordinary things with their bodies (training, study, supplements, practice), but watching them play football doesn't make me a football player! I still get excited over the games, but I'm not headed to training camp anytime soon.

    I say all of that to say this: it's not real, nor should you use it as a measuring stick for deciding how to classify yourself. Work to have a healthy relationship with it and understand that whatever you watch doesn't make you that thing. It's fun, it appeals to an animal part of our existence, but it's not - nor has it ever been - real.

    If you're like me, you'll be working on this your whole life until you come to terms with the fact that what gets you aroused has nothing to do with how good a co-worker, father, brother, husband, philanthropist, etc you are. It's just a small facet of the sophisticated and wonderful creature you are.

    Glad to hear you're getting some outside help; listen when they speak, and do the homework they may give you. It can be a gamechanger!
     
    #21 Ryan77, Aug 25, 2022
    Searching2022, Jaimequestions and detroitlouisred like this.
  2. Engdood1

    Engdood1
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    I’m no expert but thought I’d add my perspective. Reading your posts it is quite a contrast from my own experience. While I’m not sure if I’m gay yet it appears I am way more inclined in that direction than you and in my opinion you’re basically straight with an interest in trans gender women and perhaps penises? The things that stand out to me are that you don’t look at men, or think about them when masturbating. Gay porn doesn’t seem to do it for you and you’ve never had a crush on a guy etc. I don’t think there’s much to it other than the internal stress you’re feeling (which is obviously meaningful). I hope the therapist helps and you get some peace.
     
    #22 Engdood1, Aug 25, 2022
    detroitlouisred likes this.
  3. detroitlouisred

    detroitlouisred
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    Thanks for your responses @Engdood1 and @Ryan77

    @Ryan77, I really appreciate what you said about how we are so much more than our sexuality but to be honest I am really struggling to not place so much emphasis on what that is right now. I know that at the end of the day you're absolutely right, but I just can't get there right now.

    Although I am trying to take all your and my therapist's advice by not jumping to conclusions, there is something in me telling me that I am gay and it feels like I am fighting it. However, this also seems incomprehensible to me. I don't see myself as attracted to men virtually or in real life. Now I don't if I'm just not allowing myself to be open to that or if it's lingering denial, but picturing myself sexually or romantically involved with a man is not appealing to me nor does it warm my heart. That said, I do have these desires that are phallic-oriented but associated with transexual women. Where I think a lot of the confusion for me comes from is that although transexual/transgender women are just that, women, the draw for me is the fact that they have a penis. If I was exclusively attracted to femininity, wouldn't I just be satisfied with cisgender women? That's the other thing too, I am definitely noticing a difference in my attraction to cisgender women ever since my experiences with the transexual escorts.

    I am still struggling to avoid porn. It's like my willpower is nil when it comes to that. A part of me just feels like giving it up and hoping for a reset is a pipe dream. I have also discovered that straight porn, which for me was largely solo female stuff, isn't cutting the mustard like it used to.

    Ever since going back on my medication, my anxiety has subsided a bit but it still hits pretty hard in the morning. Right now it's the depression that is taking its toll on me. Thoughts around my sexuality are ever present and if I am not thinking about that, I'm thinking about my Ex. I know that it was my inability to propose that solidified the end of our complicated relationship but it doesn't make me feel any better about it, especially with what I am going through right now. I just keep thinking, "You had this amazing, beautiful, and sexy woman. That doesn't do it for you? WTF is wrong with you?" I understand that if it turns out that I actually am gay, I did both of us a favor, but if that ends up being the case it makes me feel like my whole life has been a lie. This is the only person I have ever loved and truly cared about but if I am gay it seems to negate that I was actually truly in love with her and makes me feel like I used her. These are really difficult thoughts and emotions to sort through. Obviously, a part of me truly wishes none of this was happening, I proposed, and we were with each other right now, but another part of me knows that if we were truly meant to be together, we would be. I know that regardless of my sexuality I have to let her go. She deserves happiness and I have to find my own without her, but with everything going on within me it feels like I am not only grieving the loss of her and that relationship but potentially the life I also wanted and thought I'd have.

    I just feel so paralyzed by all of this. At times it feels like I have resigned, possibly on the fringes of acceptance, myself to the fact that I am not straight. On the other hand, the idea that I am gay does not sit comfortably with me and I am nowhere near accepting of that. Maybe that's societal conditioning, compulsory heterosexuality, internalized homophobia, shame, or a stiff cocktail of all those things. Obviously, I wish I wasn't going through any of this but truthfully I'd settle for being able to put a pin in it for a while. If it turns out that I am gay and I've just been living in a cloud of denial and repression for all those years, I'll take the denial and repression because I have never felt this level of turmoil and stress.

    I know this is a pretty negative post but it is where I'm at right now.
     
    #23 detroitlouisred, Sep 7, 2022
  4. Jaimequestions

    Jaimequestions
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    First woth the positives. Co gratulations on 5 years sober. Also, not rushing into marriage.
    There is nothing wrong with experimenting if you want to be with a guy. Could you imagine going on a date with a guy, eventually holding hands, kissing, etc?
    I used to watch a lot of porn and it does warp your mind after a while. I like trans por.n as well and heard Daisey Taylor say that if you find her attractive, you are not gay (she is ultra feminine), if you found Buck Angel attractive then you would be (he is ultra masculine).
     
    #24 Jaimequestions, Sep 9, 2022
  5. detroitlouisred

    detroitlouisred
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    @jamiequestions Thank you! It was not easy, but well worth it. On the marriage front, I'm sure in hindsight I'll agree with you but I am still very much grieving that relationship even though I was the one who didn't go through with the proposal.

    The thing is, I don't know or necessarily believe that I want to be with a guy, at least that's how it feels but there is also something in me telling me that I'm gay. Obviously, with my history of porn and the two experiences with transgender escorts, there is an appeal/attraction/arousal to "not straight" sex (no offense to trans women), but I'm still not at a place where I see that with a cisgender man. However, I don't even know how to place it in the context of transgender women either because I know a lot of the appeal is based on what they've got downstairs. In the real world, from what I've read, one would be sorely mistaken to assume that many transgender women want that type of play. So even though I agree with you in terms of the Daisy Taylor quote, I also don't know how to apply it to real life.

    As far as dating goes, no, I'm not at a place where I can see that with a man. I don't know if that's me just being in denial but it's not something that warms my heart or gives me butterflies. I've considered the possibility of dating trans women, but once again if part of the appeal is their genitals I'm fetishizing them and that wouldn't be cool.
     
    #25 detroitlouisred, Sep 12, 2022
  6. Obliteratrix47

    Obliteratrix47
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    Quote: "I don't know if that's me just being in denial, but it's not something that warms my heart or gives me butterflies." It would seem that dating men does not interest you, right? It's understandable that straight people can also have second thoughts about their sexual preferences, but if you do think that dating trans women sounds more appealing to you, your sexuality doesn't change because trans women are still women. Please correct me if I'm being wrong because certainly no-one can tell what's going on inside your head.
     
    #26 Obliteratrix47, Sep 24, 2022
  7. detroitlouisred

    detroitlouisred
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    @Obliteratrix47 my apologies, I thought I had responded to your comment a while ago.

    As far as trans women being women, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Therefore, as you say, my sexuality does not change.

    However, as stated above, a definite part of my attraction to trans women relates to the primary sex characteristics, i.e. what's in their pants. The attraction to trans women is primary to those who are pre-op or none-op. So if that's the case, then technically, there is some degree of change to my prior conception of or identification as heterosexual.

    I just posted an update in this thread. https://forum.emptyclosets.com/index.php?threads/still-confused-in-so-much-turmoil-update.491216/

    To be honest, I really don't know what my attractions are anymore. In many ways, this journey has led to just as much confusion as it has clarity.
     
    #27 detroitlouisred, Oct 13, 2022
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