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Gay relationships? Do they last?

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by confusedguy, Aug 28, 2011.

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  1. Chip

    Chip
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    OK, you're painting with very broad strokes, admitting that your data is heavily biased (being based on nothing but your own observations, and at that, only at clubs and bars), and at the same time saying "it is what it is" and that "you wish people on here would speak more truthful."

    I get that you're bitter and unhappy and apparently don't think you can find a healthy relationship, but guess what? There are lots and lots and lots of gay men who have healthy relationships, have been together for a long time, and don't have any of the issues you describe.

    And yes, there are a lot of guys in their late teens and early-to-mid 20s with profiles that say "no one over 35" or even "no one over 25", but that's because there are an insane number of creepy, gross 45 or 50 year olds trying to get in the pants of 20 year olds that have zero interest in them. That doesn't mean that the 35 or 40 (or 50 or 60 or 70) year olds can't find happy, healthy relationships, only that they should be looking for people around their own age.

    I'll also tell you something that might come as a surprise: I've talked to and worked with a number of really, really attractive gay guys, and you might be surprised to find out that far from being slutty and playing the field, many of them genuinely want healthy, long-term relationships, but find it nearly impossible simply because their appearance gets in the way; shallow people seek them out only because they are beautiful, while many other people who might be wonderful boyfriends never even try because they assume the guys are "out of their league." And as a result of being treated like trophies or pieces of meat for so long, many of them get jaded and do eventually give up.

    Finally, it's been said before, and I'll say it again. You are very, very unlikely to find someone who is interested in, and capable of sustaining, a meaningful relationship in a club or bar, and almost certainly not on an online gay dating site. And as the saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results so... if you are unhappy about not finding quality relationships for all the reasons you've stated, and admit that your only data source for all that you're saying is clubs, bars, and online gay dating sites... then it's pretty likely that your problem stems from where you're looking, not from any inherent inability of gay men to sustain healthy relationships.

    So of course you're welcome to your own opinion, but please don't represent skewed, non-representative data as fact, attempt to tell others that "it is what it is" based on said skewed data, and otherwise imply that healthy gay relationships aren't possible when there is voluminous quality data done by researchers who made significant efforts to get representative data samples, that prove otherwise.
     
    #21 Chip, Aug 30, 2011
  2. zeratul

    zeratul Guest

    I've come out earlier this year and have so far experienced two dating experiences.

    I came out relatively later than most other people, I'm in my twenties and you will see that many guys come out in their teens. Anyway, the only reason I came out was because I wanted to find meaningful relationships for later in life instead of living depressed and in the closet. I wasn't the kind that did any hook ups while still in the closet - the double life doesn't suit my personality.

    But my dating experiences... they ended quickly... not for the wrong reasons. I did not get into a relationship with people just to have sex with them. Someone said earlier that gay guys are clear in what they want, and I think that is basically it.

    I date the person, I observe them while interacting with them. And when I see traits or attributes I don't like, I end the relationship. Maybe this is more difficult to do in the straight world? I always see my friends having relationship troubles that I do not fully understand yet. To me, there is no such thing as a relationship trouble, if there is trouble, there is no relationship.

    I also noticed that this is not the right way to go about it. The way my mind works: I see something bad----> my feelings for the person decrease dramatically to the point there's no attraction anymore----> I get out of relationship.

    But think about it, if you truly are committed to the RIGHT person for life, then this mindset should not happen. Trouble means you have to love them more to help them fix and conquer whatever it is they are going through, and I guess only the right person could conjure that desire in you.

    If you don't foresee yourself feeling that way ever, then I suggest finding therapy to cure your selfishness. Because, logically speaking, it is the only way to maintain a healthy, monogamous relationship wherein your commitment to someone doesn't feel like a lifelong chore.
     
    #22 zeratul, Aug 30, 2011
  3. Haberdasher

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    Forgive my ignorance but where else do you find gay men? I mean, I'm not really bumping into them in droves in the local book store or anything.

    (though I'm not looking for anything long term atm this might be relevant to my future interests)
     
    #23 Haberdasher, Aug 30, 2011
  4. feelindown

    feelindown Guest

    lol. exactly!!!!! thank you for posting this. i feel the same way, bookstores, coffee shops, etc. what's the difference, you still dont know if they are gay if they are in there unless there's some flirting going on, and if there is flriting going on how much different is that from a club? the only thing you have changed is geography and the lady gaga music playing the background. undoubtedly someone will say "go to a a lgbt center sponsored event or pflag event that is not at a club or bar....ok, like those people have never set foot in a club or bar. ITS THE SAME PEOPLE. oh, i also find it funny how i can be told im making sweeping generalizations and then the same person makes a sweeping generalization saying that you will undoubtedly not find or meet anyone meaningful or have a great relationshiop from bar, club, or online people. sounds like a broad stroke to me. im sure there are countless numbers of succesful gay couples that have met at bars, clubs or online.....ok, i really dont believe that but it's possible so i'm suprised teh poster would make sure a broad stroke statement.
     
    #24 feelindown, Aug 30, 2011
  5. ezkill

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    I think I should point out that dumping a person because they have negative traits, is not necessarily the healthy route either. Any person you date or have a relationship will have at least one flaw that bugs you. The point is to find someone that treats you well, respects you, is loyal, and has positive attributes that outweigh the few and far between negative ones. This is one of the problems a lot of gay people have, and quite a few straight people as well -- they believe that a perfect person is going to fall into their lap one day, and that they will have no flaws and they will have a romantic comedy type relationship.

    I hate to piss on anybody's parade, but this is not going to happen, ever. The same concept goes for "relationship troubles" too. There is no such thing as a perfect relationship, and if there is... then I am 100% sure you are only seeing the relationship from the outside, not from the inside. Relationships, especially the ones that last a lifetime (notice how I said especially), have their troubles and milestones. I suggest googling "stages of relationships" to get a feel for what I am talking about. The longer you are in a relationship, the more milestones you overcome and the easier each milestone gets, but that still doesn't mean those milestones don't exist!

    And back to the original content of this thread... Long-term gay relationships do exist and do occur. Like one of the posters kindly pointed out, it may be easier to seek a relationship with someone your own age -- a 20 year old, no matter maturity level, is going to have a different perspective on relationships than say, a 40 year old. There is no way possible for someone half your age to have as much experience with 1-to-2 year relationships that don't work, that a 40 year old might have. That being said, there are relationships that last with people who are much older/younger than each other.

    Generally, I think a lot of us (straight people not excluded from this message) should lower our expectations from finding someone perfect, to finding someone genuine, loyal, and trustworthy. When every other gay (or straight person) is looking for only someone perfect, or only someone a certain age, or only someone who looks a certain way -- the list goes on, and on -- then THIS is where we end up: saying how we can't find any dates, can't enter into a lasting relationship, etc. When we each cut each other down and say "nope, not muscular enough" or "nope, he's kinda annoying, not gonna do", we not only cut down potential beautiful relationships for ourselves, but also for other people, and essentially we will all be 40 before we realize the truth of the matter, and enter into a lifetime relationship with someone.

    But this won't last forever. You will find someone you love; you will find someone that is a perfect match, but not a perfect person. It will happen.

    Chin up, everybody.
     
    #25 ezkill, Aug 30, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  6. Jim1454

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    Feelindown: Has it occurred to you that you don't see any married / attached gay men at these different events you're at because we're at home watching TV or doing laundry?!? How many married / attached straight people are hitting the night club scene, going to 'mixers', or setting up online profiles on dating sites? They're not, because they're married or attached already and don't have the same need to 'get out there' and meet new people.

    My husband and I were married previously to women, and we both have children from those relationships, and more and more gay couples are becoming parents. At $10 or more an hour for a baby sitter, we're not going out at all when we have our kids. We're at home playing board games, putting them to bed, making lunches for the next day, etc.

    And when I read your posts, I am thinking to myself "Hello! I'm right here! I've already posted in this thread to say it's very possible to meet someone and have a long term relationship. How can you discount everything I'm saying?!?"

    I've also posted in other threads in response to your concerns. The question has come up here as well - "where else do I meet other gay guys?!?" Well you meet gay guys the same way straight people meet their prospective partners. Quite often they've gone to school with them. Or they meet them at work. Or they meet them through friends at parties. Or they're literally set up on blind dates by friends.

    I don't discount the online approach completely either. If you're COMPLETELY honest about what it is that you're looking for from your ad, and you mean it, then I think it's possible for you to meet a quality person who is looking for the same things.

    Age really does make a tremendous difference though. I'm far more self confident and clear about what I need from my partner than I was 15 years ago. (And some of you will go "Well duh - of course Jim. You married a woman the first time! :eusa_doh:slight_smile: The 'fit' that I feel with my husband is rock solid - it's amazing. And if he and I were able to find someone, I dont' see why everyone can't find someone. We aren't particularly blessed. We don't have any kind of relationship super powers. We're just ordinary people - who have been on perhaps a rather un-ordinary journey the last few years.
     
    #26 Jim1454, Aug 31, 2011
  7. feelindown

    feelindown Guest

    Hello Jimbo,

    you are right, i think it's my internalized issues that make feed into the promiscious gay man sterotype. but you are actually correct. at straight clubs everyone there is pretty much straight and looking to hook up, but i do not say "all straight people are single". the reason i do not say that is becuase i know and see countless straight couples that are together. when i am at the mall, store, grocery store, etc. i see men and women shopping together, holding hands, with kids, at the movies together. so in my mind, i see more of a balance. however, in my mind i do not see gay men in relationships and this is because unless they are very effeminate, (and effeminate behavior doesn't indicate sexuality either) there's no way for me to tell two guys that are at the mall or grocery store or at panda express are gay. in my mind they are just friends, cousins, brothers, etc. however, they could actually be lovers and partners and i would never know it. because in my mind i do not equate normal masculine men with being gay. yes, i know they are out there, i have seen them, i know they exist, but my mind twists things based on media and the extremes at the clubs and bars that i see that make me think the large majority of gay men embrace those sterotypes. this is something i have to work though on my own and will probably not be broken down until i meet more non-sterotypical types and their friends.
     
    #27 feelindown, Aug 31, 2011
  8. maverick

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    I have this problem but with women. Sometimes I'll see two women together in public acting flirtatious towards each other and be like, "Hmmmm....are these ladies of the Sapphic persuasion?" But then I don't bother because they could just as easily be any two het girls. Girls like to flirt and cuddle with other girls regardless of whether they like to sleep with them.

    Stop confusing me girls!
     
    #28 maverick, Aug 31, 2011
  9. Chip

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    No, that isn't true at all. The personality, interests, attitudes, and dating/hookup interests of (the majority of) the men who hang out at clubs and bars is vastly different than those who hang out in other social settings. (And BTW, this isn't a sweeping generalization; there have been quite a number of published studies looking at socialization patterns amongst gay men in different settings, and the data shows that, on the whole, these patterns hold up, not only within the US, but in most of the other countries where the subject has been studied as well.)

    Some of them are the same. But there are actually quite a few people who have never gone to a club or bar, have been once, or go 2 or 3 times a year, while -- and most anyone who regular frequents clubs and bars will tell you -- you tend to see an awful lot of the same people at the clubs and bars week after week after week. Same is true at non-club/bar events; those people also tend to stick together and so you see the same faces at non-club-bar events, but not at bars, and vice-versa.

    The point you seem to be missing is that people gravitate toward a particular social setting. I have friends who go to the bars and clubs every week, and wouldn't go to a book club, game night, circle dance, hiking club, potluck, or other LGBT event if their life depended on it. And vice-versa; people are more likely to hang out in environments where they feel comfortable. And the personalities of people who hang out at these different types of events tends to be somewhat similar. As I said above, the research that's been done does, in fact, indicate that the people who hang out at bars and clubs are less likely to be interested in long-term relationships and meaningful interactions than those who hang out at events that involve more conversation and social interaction.

    On the whole, the data from studies that have looked at gay dating and courtship shows that the majority of long-term relationships don't seem to come about from meetings at bars and clubs. Of course there are exceptions to that; some long-term relationships have come about from chance meetings on airplane flights, for example, but I wouldn't suggest sitting on three dozen Southwest flights to look for a long-term relationship.

    Additionally, club culture tends to dissuade people from long-term monogamy and faithfulness in relationships; it's a crowdsourced mentality and hard to say if it's chicken or egg, but it is definitely true that people who are long-time regular patrons of clubs appear to be less likely to stay in long-term relationships. Perhaps because they aren't looking, perhaps because they are emotionally incapable of sustaining long-term relationships, perhaps because club culture tends to encourage cheating, but in any case, that does tend to be the case, and further bolsters the argument that clubs and bars are not the best places to seek out relationships.

    The point is, if you are actually genuinely interested in a long-term relationship, you need to look in places where other like-minded people are likely to be hanging out, and the researchers who have looked at this have found that, while it isn't impossible to find a long-term relationship in a club or bar, they are definitely not the best place to do so.
     
    #29 Chip, Aug 31, 2011
  10. Filip

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    I do like this discussion. I've gotten some good food for thought from it, at least.

    And I guess that it also depends on where you come from. I haven't been to a lot of clubs and bars, and even when I was there, I wasn't really there to meet people. I just kind of basked in the fact that other gay people than myself existed and that they would at least understand me better than a lot of straight people. Never got so far as to actually talk to them about it xD

    So the gay people I know are all people I met outside of gay circles. Just going about my normal hobbies. Sure, only 10% of people you meet that way are gay, but that means you still meet the occasional one. In my case, they tended to be the kind of people who you would never meet at any GLBT event (not even at GLBT sports clubs or book clubs). They were just regular (and quite masculine, mostly) guys who happened to be gay but didn't do a lot about it other than living their life and waiting until interesting people came by in the course of that.
    Looks like those people could be more to your liking, but you can't find them by looking. You just have to live your life and hope to meet them.


    Another thought that strikes me is that I'm thinking anecdotal evidence and research is nice to prove it's possible, but apart from that, all you can do is keeping up hope and doing your best.

    Maybe the scariest stuff I read in this thread is the following:

    So... if you start off by assuming single guys must be single for a reason, and any kind of interest is a sign of "club mentality".... How do you even get to trusting a guy? And if you're always cramped, waiting for the backstab or the promiscuity you're sure will happen eventually, how can you ever get to a proper relationship?
    Sure, if you're trusting, and give it your best shot, you risk getting your heart stepped on. But if you start off assuming the worst, there really is no chance at all things will ever end up well.


    Anyhows, that's just my 2 cents. I obviously don't have the perfect dating protocol either. If I had, I would be spending 100% of my spare time with my ideal boyfriend, rather than discussing about it online :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
    #30 Filip, Aug 31, 2011
  11. Haberdasher

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    Maybe I should just find ways to get outside my apartment more, it's true in my home town I knew one gay fellow from non-LGBT events, though unfortunately he was taken... sort of a low number to the number of straight guys out there but maybe I'd meet more if I were not so reclusive. It's a hard subject to broach, though isn't it? I took my roommate to buy food for her cats and when we left she commented I should have tried to get the cashier's number as he was cute... but how could I know he was gay? Flirting with straight guys makes me feel like a creep, it's a bit embarrassing, and disappointing (even if this particular fellow didn't look quite like the sort to make a very large deal of it). Plus, I'm not even sure I was all that attracted to him but if he's the only (maybe) gay guy I'm going to run into outside a club in this town should I try it anyhow? Feels a bit limiting.

    And going to an LGBT bookclub (if there was such in the area) for the purpose of possibly getting a date seems a bit strange somehow... but then if people aren't using it like a dating service why make sure it's LGBT specifically?

    I feel like it's hard to have a natural relationship if you're gay.
     
    #31 Haberdasher, Aug 31, 2011
  12. Chip

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    If you're going to any non-bar/club activity *with the intent* of finding a date or a mate, then you'll (a) probably turn people off, and (b) likely not find what you're looking for. But the same is true of heterosexual dating; a lot of hetero couples have met in places like laundromats, but it doesn't mean that if you're a straight guy, you should go to a laundromat for a date.

    The point is, people who are genuinely interested in long term relationships need to not look at everything and everyone in the binary of date material/non-date material. You go to social events to be social. You don't go looking for a date, looking for a hookup, or eyeing every guy that walks by and hitting on him if he's cute. You go to meet people and make friends. And then, maybe, the friendship evolves into something more. Or maybe the friend introduces you to another friend. Or maybe the friend has a dinner party you get invited to where there's another guy who's single and looking.

    I get sort of frustrated with the all-too-common gay dating mindset where people would like to go into a store and pick out their perfect date, take him home, and live happily ever after. Meaningful relationships take time to develop, because people who are emotionally healthy don't jump into things. Most take their time, get to know their partners before anything happens, and the relationship develops over time, as the parties get to know one another. That's really just about the only way that meaningful, long-term relationships form. Once in a great while the instant infatuation/"soulmate for life" thing happens in an instant, but that's rare.

    Patience, and willingness to simply meet people, and wait for opportunities to develop from that, is where the greatest success in developing relationships comes from.
     
    #32 Chip, Aug 31, 2011
  13. Haberdasher

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    The difference between a straight person bumping into someone and forming a relationship is that straight people are everywhere so they can do that. Like I said, if people aren't using LGBT bookclubs etc. as a dating service then why go to an LGBT bookclub? You could go to any of them. Why bother making sure everyone there shares your sexual orientation? You're only there for the books, right?
     
    #33 Haberdasher, Aug 31, 2011
  14. Chip

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    Sigh.

    It's attitudes like the one above that ruin LGBT bookclubs and social gatherings for those who are there trying to enjoy friendship.

    There are a lot of people (coincidentally, like myself and most of my friends) who cultivate friendships with other LGBT people where there's no interest in hooking up or dating or relationships, just in friendship. And there are issues that LGBT people typically have in common that straight people don't share. So it can be really nice to have LGBT friends that are not people you want to sleep with but just be nice, friendly people to cultivate meaningful friendships with. And naturally, as you cultivate friendships, that can, in turn, lead to opportunities for relationships, through friends you get introduced to, and so forth.

    So as I attempted to say above, the LGBT social events are about social interaction and cultivating friendships, not about hooking up or looking for a boyfriend.

    But when people have the attitude like the above, and come to events intended primarily for social purposes and use them as hookup events, it fucks up the vibe and creeps out the people at the events.

    Fortunately, at most of the ones I've been to, there are few if any of those types, and the ones that do show up generally get the message pretty quickly and don't come back.
     
    #34 Chip, Aug 31, 2011
  15. Haberdasher

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    Look I'm not in your damn book club so I'm not ruining shit. I asked how you meet people in not in bars, you guys gave the response.

    I don't give a shit about relationships right now. Just fucking curious.
     
    #35 Haberdasher, Aug 31, 2011
  16. paper person

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    I guess since we are already kinda off topic here. What if at these social based LGBT events two people met became freinds and over time and then decided to date and still atend book club. I imagine it might be akward as hell for the other people. or not idk. im just third weeled alot so just curious. that is proably more acceptible form of courtship but i feel like i should ask anyway.
     
    #36 paper person, Aug 31, 2011
  17. Zontar

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    Straight people aren't exactly a paragon of fidelity. What's the divorce rate? 55% or some shit like that?
     
    #37 Zontar, Aug 31, 2011
  18. Chip

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    I think in *any* sort of social community/ongoing activity, gay or straight, people who feel a connection to one another are going to pursue it, and my own experience is that it usually doesn't make things awkward at all. If anything, I think a lot of people are happy to see their friends in a happy relationship.

    What can get a little weird are groups that are more hookup oriented; there was one such group at the local gay-lesbian center for 18-25 people, and it seems that practically everyone in the group has slept with practically everyone else. That apparently made things a bit awkward for people.
     
    #38 Chip, Aug 31, 2011
  19. feelindown

    feelindown Guest

    [/QUOTE]
    The point is, people who are genuinely interested in long term relationships need to not look at everything and everyone in the binary of date material/non-date material. You go to social events to be social. You don't go looking for a date, looking for a hookup, or eyeing every guy that walks by and hitting on him if he's cute. You go to meet people and make friends. And then, maybe, the friendship evolves into something more. Or maybe the friend introduces you to another friend. Or maybe the friend has a dinner party you get invited to where there's another guy who's single and looking.
    .[/QUOTE]

    sorry chipper, with all due respect i think you are in a fantasy world. look you just told people that basically they are not going to find people in a bar/club/online for a long term relationship and that they should go to other lbgt events and activities to meet other people that are more like minded and interested in similar relationship goals. ok, so then now you say that going to a lbgt book club for the purpose of potentially finding someone to date is wrong because you should be there for the books and to make friends. ok, i get that people should be there for books and they should have read the book before they got there. but if gay peopel can't walk up to guys on the street and flirt like normal straight people do, if gay people can't meet potential long term partners online, in clubs or at bars, and if gay people should go to lbgt things like book clubs to meet people why are you now telling people they shouldn't go there to try and meet a partner/date. so where are they going to meet them. what you fail to realize is that men like to flirt. straight men like to flirt with women, get phone numbers, date, look for partners ANYWHERE they are. so why woudln't a gay man want to do the same at a book club and why is that wrong or misguided especially since you've basically eliminated the only other places gay people can meet other gay people. i guess people are supposed to sit and wait for someone to apporach them, sit and wait for a relationship to fall out of thin air. well, the reality is it's hard for gay people to meet other gay people and it's even harder for them to meet other gay people they are compatible with. i think it's ludacris to think that people wouldn't use the book club to flirt and meet potential dates becuase that's what most single people who want to be in a relationship do. they go to places and events where there is a likelihood that "their type" will be there and when they see their type, they go for it. honestly, i really dont have anything else to say about this. clearly you believe whatever you believe about dating and the likelihood for gay people to meet other gay people. i do not share those same opinions so no further need to quote my messages and do a public rebuttal. if you want to say something, feel free to PM me directly. thank you. i shall have no more comments on this thread.

    ---------- Post added 1st Sep 2011 at 02:48 AM ----------
    my point exactly, if you are not supposed to go to lbgt bookclubs or events to find potential dating partners, then what's the point of going to LGBT specified events. if people are people and if everything is equal, why would i need to be around other gay people just to read a book. i can go to any generic bookclub and 10% of the people may be gay there anyway, so why go to one that is gay oriented if i'm going to piss someone off if i try and flirt with them or date them. i mean, gay people can't just walk up to same sex people on the streets and say "hey dude, i saw you from across the street and i just wanted to pay you a compliment and let you know you're very attractive". lol. so since i can't do that, and i'm told that i'm not likely to find someone a club, then i'm told by that if i go to a lgbt bookclub i'm really not supposed to use that as a dating source, then i mean, where in the heck are you supposed to meet someone. lol. this is a joke. my advice to gay people is just make some gay friends, let people know you are interested in dating and hope that they have other good single friends they can hook you up with. good luck people. i'm done with this lifestyle. later!

    ---------- Post added 1st Sep 2011 at 02:53 AM ----------
    ohhhhh whattt??? hooking up occurred at the beloved gay-lesbian center. wait, that can't be. from everyone's posts and suggestion i thought the gay-lesbian center was the last bastien of non hookup oriented gay people that were ohhhh so different that bars/club/online people. it really only further reinforces my thoughts and beliefs about this stuff.
     
    #39 feelindown, Sep 1, 2011
  20. Chip

    Chip
    Board Member Admin Team Advisor Full Member

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    The reality is, it is difficult for you to meet other gay people you find compatible, because apparently, from what you've said, you only look for them in bars and clubs, you apparently flirt with everything that moves, seem to be annoyed that young people don't want to be hit on by older guys, and then wonder why you don't have a boyfriend. At least, that's what I've picked up from what you've said.

    I think you've actually answered your own question, you just don't seem to be interested in seeing it, and perhaps that's why you're chronically unhappy. I recently read (more accurately, forced myself to finish) one of the most awful books I've ever read, one that somebody here on EC mentioned, called "Gay and Single... Forever." The entire book was an attempt by a person who spends all his time in the club and bar scene to convince himself (and those reading the book) that he is happy. Unfortunately, he fails miserably, and the entire book is a constant attempt at self-justification from someone who doesn't fit in, hasn't figured out he has a serious problem with emotional intimacy, and is stuck going from meaningless encounter to meaningless encounter. And there are a lot of people out there like that.

    But there are also a lot of people who are better able to connect meaningfully to others, and those are the people that tend to hang out in environments where they can interact more socially than in a typical club or bar setting. Does mild flirting happen at these social events? Sure. But well-adjusted people, who have decent social skills, know how to read the environment, and know what's appropriate, and can communicate appropriately in the environment without comping across as creepy or out of place, while others (more commonly the guys who are out for hookups at bars) either have no sense of subtlety, or are simply so self-centered that they don't care if they're being inappropriate. I was referring to the latter, not the former, when I was talking about inappropriate behavior.

    Not everyone simply "goes for it" simply because they "see their type." Some people, even gay men, have social decorum.

    You know, your cynicism and bitterness really isn't helping you or anyone else. Of course hookups are going to happen when you get gay guys, particularly 18-25 gay guys, together. But what you seem constitutionally incapable of seeing is that the nature of the interactions leading to the hookups are different. While there may still be a lot of promiscuity among the group as a whole, the depth of the relationships that form tend to be much deeper, and the quality of the friendships, often even after hookups or relationships have ended, often sustain as well. But I'm afraid that with the depth of the bitterness and cynicism you have, you can't open your mind enough to see that, and instead insist on simply making yourself a victim. I think you'd be a much happier person if you spent some time exploring the bitterness and cynicism in therapy, because I think if you can get past that, the real person inside is probably someone that could very easily attract and hold onto a meaningful relationship. But it's hard to do when there's so much negativity.
     
    #40 Chip, Sep 1, 2011
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