General News Kindergarten sex ed in Chicago

Why shouldn't children be taught about their bodies?
Why should parents be only the only ones that are allowed to teach them about their bodies?

Teaching a child about their body doesn't mean you are robbing them of their childhood... I don't know how anyone could come to that conclusion unless they are intentionally using scare tactics instead of an actual argument.

 

Does anyone else remember "stranger danger"? It's kind of like that, except it's when the stranger comes up to you and does funny things instead of you going up to the stranger who looks like they may be doing funny things.

 

I completely agree with this. I don't think kindergarten is too young to be taught that it's okay to tell a grown up if someone touches you in a way that feels uncomfortable. I hear what people are saying about parents telling their kids, but honestly, god forbid something happen to one of these kids, the likelihood is that the person who did it will tell them not to tell, so the best chance of having them actually believe it's okay to tell is hearing from multiple sources that it is. I think it's great for this kind of thing to come from multiple sources and starting at a very young age. Too often people think they don't need to teach their child this kind of thing at an early age and then by the time they start teaching them it's okay to say something, the damage may have already been done.

 

My parents taught me about sex more then anyone else. Even explained what it was to be gay. They did so in context with our religion, and yet still tried to provide a broad view of the subject.

School did not rob me of an understanding of my body, they made me seek my parents, ya know, the two heroes in any child's life. After doing so I understood better, and came closer to understanding what I was. I encourage parents who have a far better understanding of their children then any school to teach their children about life.

Sure, let school teach math and science. Let parents teach what it means to be YOU.

And, if I may be curt but direct, I made no mention of scare tactics, merely the experiences that shaped me. Should you feel my approach involves fear, I'd venture to say it says far more of you then it does of me.

I simply hope more parents take a direct approach as mine did. Nothing more. Don't read between lines that don't exist.

 

The thing is that there is a HUGE percentage of kids out there that do no have the supportive, knowledgeable, and loving parents that you had. Not every single kid is as lucky as you, and its irresponsible for us to abandon other kids that need this information even if their parents are crap.

Also, keep in mind that most Sex Ed in the US sucks not because they made it that way, but because parents got in the way for the program and they don't allow schools to teach it in the healthiest of ways.

So, believe it or not, your life experiences are in the minority. Count yourself lucky, but don't get in the way of other kid's education simply because you expect them to have your own life experiences.

 

I fail to see how having the school also teach this is going to be a bad thing. It's not like it's the school or the parents - that is a false dichotomy. It can be both. Having them both available is obviously going to better than just saying "well, parents teach it better so let's prevent anyone else from ever providing this information". What's more, having the school instigate the subject will encourage the child to go to their parents for extra information.

 

In theory, it's a good idea.

However, it also opens the door to consequences that can occur later on because of it, that wouldn't have occurred without them having that knowledge earlier.

If a kid knows somewhere is a place you shouldn't touch, chances are, one day, a bunch of those kids are going to want to touch it, like all kids do when they're told they can't do something.

Educating kids is one thing. I have no issue if parents, or someone who knows where the child is developmentally, explains things to them when they believe they can handle the information.

However, not every child develops at the same speed. I was reading in kindergarten. One of my friends didn't start reading until 2nd grade.

It's not a smart idea to simply teach every kindergartener about the human body. It's one of the only subjects that should be subject to the child's mental age, not their physical age.

Could this help prevent a bunch of situations? Yes. But could it also cause a bunch of situations that never would have happened? Yes.

It's a double-edged sword. This is the type of instance where both sides have a valid point, and neither side is ever going to convince the other side. In all debates, this has some merit of truth, but in this case in particular, it's even moreso.

Kindergarten is too young to teach kids about the human body in school, in my honest opinion. I had no issue learning in 4th/5th grade. If you have a differing opinion, more power to you, but that's mine. If the parent/etc. believes their child is mentally able to process such information, then all the more power to them.

Yes, the parent can opt out of it, but in the experience I had in school, almost none of my friends parents actually paid attention. They just saw that they wanted to teach their kid something and said okay, without caring what it was about.

Now, if this was say, 2nd grade or so, I'd be all for it, as those 2 years are usually enough to get kids to that mental stage, and if not, the school has noticed and help them with more personal teaching. But kindergarten. A lot of kids don't even know their alphabet at that time. A lot of kids barely know anything at that point.

EDIT: Every time I type kindergarten, I second guess myself. "Is that really how you spell it?" I dunno why. I've always done it. >_>;

 

Then it seems, we must simply agree ( or not, I don't expect much...at all) to disagree

My course has worked well enough for me, I imagine it works well enough for a great many others. At the end of the day I expect parents, rather then whatever third party you may conjure, to be the primary responsible party for teaching their kids about ROMANCE!

Simplicity is honestly, a sign of divinity!

While I would uphold teaching from both the private and public sector would work best, I recall a teacher who told me gays "had no place in the chain of events and would fade away, as was simply their place". Parents may have the same view but, I hold to the believe convincing parents is far easier then anything else!

It is Ridiculous to think children need to be taught sex before their time....let them approach their parents first as I did. Let progress grow upon a natural line, rather then one you deem appropriate. Sexual activity is after all, in my experience, such a small amount of who I am as a gay man.

 

I fail to see where romance is coming into this at all. They are talking about body parts and appropriate touching. I don't see how this is really teaching them anything "before their time." Boys and girls know they are different from each other. Now they just have another concrete example as to why (boys have a penis, girls have a vagina). As for the touching, teaching them not to touch another person on their privates because it's inappropriate is just as traumatizing as teaching them not to stick their fingers in another person's ear because it's inappropriate...at this age the students don't stick any sexual tones or stigma on to this lesson.

 

Ah, as homosexuals you can understand what it is to live a different lifestyle. (le gasp!)

Everything I was ever taught was about 2 people and romance.

I admit my upbringing may have been strange, since "gay" often factored into that equation as (ew), but I would not be where, nor whom I am without what my parents taught me.

I want to be able to teach my children with as much freedom as my parents did.

I recall an Uncle, most honorable and respected amongst the family....objecting that the school taught a different doctrine about sexuality then his own (he did not HATE homosexuals!)! He often wondered why he had not been able to teach his children as he had felt best...and was most vocal about seeking a path all most unique to your own.

I am sorry, I know perhaps most parent's don't teach their kids about LIFE!!!! But that doesn't change he fact that responsibility remains with the parents!

Should they fail too....what sad days parents cannot manage their own children.

 

Oh you are the same person who did this last time and then put a vague but rather pathetic attempt at insulting me in your signature, which is still there. I thought you'd left. Don't know why I didn't ignore you back then.

---------- Post added 10th Sep 2013 at 08:11 PM ----------

I don't think it would cause any problems. That's like saying we shouldn't teach gun safety because it might encourage people to use guns that otherwise wouldn't have, so it's better to just pretend guns don't exist. Perhaps a silly comparison, but still a sound one I think.

As Jonathan said any reasonable kindergarten would be broaching the subject the same way as they do with any other inappropriate touching and hitting and so, which they already do as standard at this level. There's no reason why they can't just broaden what they teach a bit and say "You shouldn't be touching each others genitals, and it isn't okay for someone else to touch your genitals and you should report it if they do." That's literally all they would be doing - and I think that's a very valuable thing to teach from a young age.

There's always a chance that it could backfire and rebellious kids would take this as a challenge to do exactly that, but I'm confident that the benefits that would come from it (i.e. essentially telling kids that rape is wrong and it should be reported and stopped - which currently it tragically isn't most of the time) far outweighs any potential negatives.

 

But that's exactly the point. At this stage, the school is *NOT* teaching them about romance. It's teaching them about anatomy and appropriate physical touching. You seem to be equating school instruction with the impossibility of parent instruction, which is not the case at all. Parents are all still free to teach their children, and as others have pointed out, they are free to opt their children out of any lesson that they do not agree with. Having the school teach the children their own anatomy and appropriate touching does not in any way infringe upon the parents' ability to teach their children as well.

 

This is a very good step. Parents are not suitable to leave sex ed to because they might not talk about it at all, and if they do, they might add a personal slant that's incorrect (usually mum+dad=end of discussion, now say your prayers). Parents have a responsibility, but that doesn't mean that schools don't have to do what they're made for; educating.

And to say that children shouldn't learn about sex is very stupid. Sex isn't shameful, and shaming it leads to problems. The children won't understand it properly until they reach puberty, but they will be able to have a basis to understand their feelings.

Oh, and Dodonnas, your arguments are flawed by ignoring the countless children who are unable to learn from parents, and your pettiness towards Ridiculous is both pathetic and inappropriate for a site devoted to having a sense of community and support. If you could provide actual arguments rather than pointlessly and hypocritically insult someone who disagrees, that would be far better.

 

That wasn't my attempt, and don't honestly know what you are referring too (sorry?)!, But certainly wasn't my desire to derail from the conversation at hand. I have followed your posts in these forums and while I at times have serious misgiving about your options, I respect them, after all, if I hope my own to have the same respect, I must extend it to you.

If you feel I have made some personal attack, I encourage you to contact me via private message where we can discuss it beyond the public eye. After all, this isn't a forum ( sp? ) for such one on one personal attacks. Also I will freely, at your personal request change my signature if you feel it is directed to you. My desire is not to single any person. Not my original intent to insult you but I understand how you may see it as such.

I would hope as fellow gay, lesbian, and transgender men and women we could understand and connect to one another. After all, haven't we suffered the same problems at the hands of family and friends?

If not, as I said, I do not want to be known as an antagonist on these forums. Since you have been here or at least posted with far greater fervor then me, ask of me and you shall receive. I am honest when I say it is that simple.

 

It sounds like an excellent idea. People sometimes act like children need to be protected from knowing that sex exists at all, but thats ridiculous. It does no harm, and they'll benefit from understanding more about their bodies, and about how to protect themselves from being abused.

 

Call it anything other than sex education and everybody would be for it. As soon as people see the word "sex" they think of all the s**t they do in their bedroom.

 

^ Good point.

About the "It should be left up to the parents" argument:

Education, at least in Illinois, is largely owned by the state, and it is by law that each minor must undergo education. There is a saying in the film industry you may or may not have heard: "It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it". It's very true in this case. Basically like the boat scene in the Karate Kid, where Miyagi teaches that they're not fighting for the sake of fighting, but rather so that they don't really need to fight, and if the time comes, they're prepared. This is basically the state making sure that it's not liable for these kinds of issues.

 

Man, if only the "Let the parents teach their kids that" thing worked the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately for us, some parents don't have time for their kids, some don't think to teach about this stuff, and some are plain abusive.

Plenty of kids learn about sex in a variety of ways. I learned about it from the Sims and other media long before I really knew enough about it to understand my own sexuality, and my parents were good about more or less answering my questions honestly throughout my childhood (I don't remember ever thinking babies came from anything except sex).

And to be honest, even if this was teaching something more than it actually is, I don't really even see a problem with that. Americans are such prudes, and to be honest, I think it gets us into trouble. If we have such a cultural stigma about talking about sex we're going to run into more problems with sexual abuse. I remember when I went to the children's museum at Amsterdam there was a small exhibit completely about sex. This exhibit even had stick figures in positions from the Karma Sutra and some more or less explicit videos. It was weird to me, but it makes sense. Kids are going to learn about sex, why not teach them about it so that we can make sure they learn about it safely?

 

A. The notion that children are "too young" to hear this or learn this is absolutely ridiculous. Sexual abuse doesn't wait until the kid learns what inappropriate touching is!

B. The notion that this "normalizes homosexuality" is a complete effing delusion. If anything, it keeps kids from inadvertently interacting in a homosexual way with each other due to a lack of knowledge!!

Kids can handle it, kids need to hear it, and it will really help to make more cases of child sexual abuse be reported and dealt with.

 

They won´t tell them not to touch it. They are free to touch themselves (I hope) and if a tiny kid touches another tiny kid no harm is done. (They kiss eachother on the mouth too, you know). It´s about someone (older) touching you when it is uncomfortabel or doesn´t feel right it´s okay to tell. That is totally different from "you can´t touch it" and "no-one is allowed to touch it."

God fotbit there is a kid going to kindergarten that can´t name bodyparts. Penis and vagina are just two more names for bodyparts. ADULTS make a big deal out of the words.

And how is this relevant to "if you don´t feel comfortable when someone touches you, you can tell?"
It´s not like they get a project to work with, you know.

You don´t tell them when you dress them "put your arm in this hole?" or "let my wipe your nose" when they are tiny kids? They get a grasp of bodyparts, really they do.

Like what?

That´s too late to protect your little ones. Don´t forget that sexoffenders often are close firends of the family or relatives even... Parents often don´t suspect anything unless the kid is bleeding or something. Just because little ones think it is all "normal"...


I am passionate about this because of what happened with my boyfriend since he was a baby until he was way into his teens... And all that time he thought it was normal, because no one ever told him it was not. Until one day and as a result he tried to commit suicide.
How different would his life have been if at kindergarten they would have talked about it and he would have said :"But strangers touch me there all the time."
It would have stopped there and there and he could have gotten over it by the time he was a teenager. Maybe not even really remember....

Even if a few don´t really understand, what´s the harm in that? It´s like telling them how a washing machine works and why you should hang your clothes to dry. If they don´t get it, they don´t get it. But it doesn´t harm them.
Taboos do.