I can admire and appreciate and respect that position. Unfortunately, particularly among gay men, I think it is probably a minority view now. I personally think having sex on the first date is a bit on the... tacky side, and I also think it is often antithetical to developing meaningful relationships. And from my background with shame work, I also tend to believe that most (but not all) people having casual sexual encounters are essentially numbing, which isn't healthy. But I think my view isn't a common one
I recently saw a hilarious episode of Queer as Folk (US version) about his very thing. Two guys meet at a night club, fall in love, start planning their future together...then one "cheats" by dancing with another guy and a tearful breakup ensues. It all happens in the span of two hours.
I think this whole thread points out the dangers of thinking that dating has "rules." It seems to me that what happened with "R" is that he had a set of rules in his head about how dating worked--it sounds like those rules might be very similar to Nick's rules. It sounds like Scott was very upfront that that was not what was going on but that was not enough to break through R's notion of the rules. That's the thing--dating doesn't have rules. There are things you want, things you think, even things you need--no rules. And the reason, in my opinion, it doesn't help to think of it as having rules is once you do it's too easy to start assuming that if you know the rules then other decent people must also know the rules. But there aren't rules and many other decent people will think, want, need different things than you do--and the only way you will find out what others think, want, need is to tell them and ask them. Unfortunately even then--even when you do tell them--it may not be enough to break through their own notion of what the rules are. Sorry you had such a bad experience Scott--it sounds to me like you did everything you needed to do to set the groundrules and R just couldn't accept that you wanted/needed different things at this time in your life than he did. It's unfortunate he couldn't discuss it a more mature manner. On a sidenote just because I like to be contrary. Back in the day I had a rule (just for myself, not other people) that I didn't sleep with people on the first date--the third was my rough template. Don't get me wrong I slept with some people I never dated at all. But when I thought of it as dating (meaning there was even the possibility of any sort of relationship at all) never on the first date. That is, after all, "tacky" as Chip pointed out. I slipped up once. There was in fact one person in my rather extensive dating history that I slept with on the first date--we've been together for almost 17 years. Sometimes life just happens...:lol:
Hi, There is a great term for what I think OGS is saying... Psychology heuristics; "R" and tscott were playing with different sets of heuristics. We all do to some extent. Tom
I dated "R" for almost a month before "R" and I end up in bed together. I am not a casual person. I'm not a "slut" (hate that word)...in hindsight I should not have gotten involved, but "R" pursued, and I enjoyed being chased and caught. Once caught I was faithful. Did I go out with friends without him, absolutely. We weren't married, and I didn't cheat. I'm newly out. Please tell me how I am to discover without some experimentation what I even like or want. Top/bottom, vanilla, leather, bondage, water sports, dominant/submissive, things I never knew or wanted to know about are all upfront and acknowledged. I'm not saying, believe me I'm not saying, that I want to try even a small fraction of any of this, but some I'd like to try. I listened my whole life to what others thought I needed or should be. Now I can control the situation to some extant and when I'm ready for a monogamous LTR, I don't want to wonder about things. I feel (and I'll go back and re-read the posts) a bit judged. I feel I've acquitted myself well. Again I don't want to bed hop, but, yes, I want to play a bit in the sandbox. "R" talked of moving in together, things were moving too fast, and I had my everything else that has been happening in my life. If I hadn't had this conversation then all I could see was deeper hurt in the future.
From what I read on OP, I am not the wisest guy on relationships mind you, seems like he was not ready to a relationship just like you. You can end up in the bed at the first date. What's wrong with it if it is what both sides wanted. "R" sounds like emotionally worn out person which is very common in older gays in here (check location, not in this forums). They try to push others emotionally to get the response they wanted. As they hurt constantly in time, hurting others feelings is one of the main ways to get reaction/attention they want. Luckily we, people who were aware they were gay early, did that experimenting on teen/young adult years. I honestly don't know if I can do it at this age as even little imagination of a relationship gives me headaches nowadays. Don't let this incident let you down. This was just an unlucky miss-match.
Hey Tim, don't regret, you got some much needed experience from R, sure it's a bit messy but life is messy. I know you're a honourable guy, don't ever question that. Peace FYI. I don't think I'd ever sleep with anyone on the first or third date for that matter... Maybe the second though
i think in general during the dating process people should be upfront. 1. i want to date someone, see how things go, i'm also open to dating other people. i am not ready to be exclusive yet but if it's something that mutually happens, sure i'm interested in an exclusive relationship. 2. i'm newly gay and really just exploring. i may want to get physical and hang out, but i am not ready for being exclusive with anyone or being in a full-on relationship. i may want to date others too. 3. i just want to have fun and hookup, no strings attached. 4. i just want to go on some non physical dating. hang out, talk, get to know each other. but i do not want to get physical. basically my point is, we're adults, not teens, be upfront with what you want so you can meet people that give you want you want and so that you do not waste your time or waste other people's time. you also have to understand that if someone likes you, they can't "turn it off" and getting physically only helps to confuse things for the person that really likes you and wants a relationship if you just want to have a no strings attached agreement. i think the problem with dating is that people are not upfront and play games whether they know it or not. they are afraid to say "i'm not interested" or 'i am interested". i prefer direct communicators versus guessing where i stand with people. i find that guys do not have great communication skills and you're always wondering where you stand. women are usually more forthcoming on how they feel when it comes to relationships.
Hey Tim. I think everyone has their own view on this so don't feel judged. It sounds like there was just an misunderstanding about what the two of you wanted from the time you spent together (I'm trying not to call it a relationship). The guy I'm seeing is lovely. He is kind, gentle, strong, funny, and makes me feel good. Do I think he and I will get hitched!? No, but I'm enjoying the time we spend together. Do I think he expects more than we have? I don't know. I've not asked him because I'm happy going with the flow. Should I ask him what he wants from us? If he says a LTR and potentially a wedding ring in five years time... what next? Right now that's not anything near what I am looking for BUT I'm not sleeping around with other guys. Right now, we're together and it's good. If we get fed up of each other or things start to dwindle then I'll look at where we are and decide if it's worth working at or not. I think by me asking the questions now it'll actually destroy something that's really quite nice and I'm happy with and he appears happy with. I get the feeling in my new gay world that loads of guys meet, date, sleep together then are practically moving in with one another in the space of three months, and then everything ends after six! I suppose it's a case of finding what's right for you
Hey Tim, I'm not sure if my part of the discussion was part of what came off as judgy. If so I definitely apologize--it certainly wasn't my intent. It seems to me like you acquitted yourself well. You were honorable, honest and clear about what you wanted and didn't want and someone else was either too immature or too desperate for something different than what you were currently willing to give to hear it. From where I sit that's entirely on him. There has to be room for a middle ground between I'm not sure I'm going to tell you my real name and joint burial plots and unfortunately there are a lot of guys out there--on both sides of the spectrum--who aren't even able to imagine that space in the middle. I think you need to do what you need to do now and accept that that will likely change over time--and as long as you are up front and honest about what exactly that is you have ever right to expect anyone who wants to play with you in that sandbox to respect it.
Ok...how the bloody hell did I miss this thread when it was current?? Scotty I'm so sorry I didn't see this earlier...and I'm a bit afraid that if I comment now, whatever I say will be 2+ months out of date. So I'll just say I've missed seeing your name around the forum lately, and maybe you'll give us an update on how things are going, so I can reply to that. *hugs*
Seconded, One thing I enjoy about this website is that a few of us are moving forward in our lives but we are sticking around this forum, I am seeing about 3 different guys at the moment; none of which I think are life long relationship material, I would probably more use the term friends with benefits. :lol: I had been talking to one of them recently; they definitely don't want a relationship and as much as he would be the one I could have I know deep down that there is no relationship potential; the biggest being the age difference, although a sentence I had said was that I wanted to develop a deeper friendship with them and I got a reply saying we aren't going to have a relationship; I know that; and he knows that but I think in the communication they didn't realize that as my choice of words was incorrect. I guess what was mentioned up further was that communication is very important. And maybe I am just younger; sex on the first date why not. (!) I think I met one guy for a coffee and I hadn't even finished the coffee and he said; wasn't I interested. I was thinking what the hell, we haven't even had a meal yet and you want to have sex. Oh an update would be good.
