What do the symbols of gay pride mean to you?

Honstly, to me, you sound scared that your gayness is going to define you.

 

Yeah. When you complain that gay people aren't 'intergrating in to society' that is a pretty big indicator

Dont worry though, I went through the same thing.

This is how it went for me:

1. Scared that my sexuality would define me.
2. Embrace the gayness and get obsessed with gay stuff because its a new and fun part of myself that I have the urge to explore.
3. Calmed down. I have changed (/matured) as I have become less concerned with fitting in with heterosexual expectations. I better understand who I am and am more confident being me.

I hope the same happens for you.

 

Robert hit the nail on the head there. Don't worry, you'll mature and realize that it doesn't define you. It's just one part of who you are. But because being gay/queer/anything other that heterosexual was and is still taboo and something to be persecuted over it get more attention that the others. You'll get confident enough that it won't even be an issue for you later in life.

 

Heteronormative society oppresses us. That is the reason why we politicize our sexualities and genders. The same reason anyone ever politicizes anything; we see a failure in society, an unforgivable injustice, and therefore we, instead of lowering our voices and bowing our heads down in shame, scream at the top of our lungs that this is who we are and we're fucking perfect, so respect us or we'll show you how fucking badass us fags, lesbos, trannies, et al can really be.

It has nothing to do with religion. We attack religion when religion attack us. We attack atheism when atheism attacks us. Give us shit and we'll give it right back. We are inferior to no man in the sky, nuclear family, or straight couple. Our love, the way we fuck, everything is just as valid as the socially constructed bullshit heteronormativity we're oppressed by.

 

I understand what you mean I have been through certain phases while in the process of coming out in which I haven't wanted people to see me a particular way because I am queer. "before I am queer I want to be a daughter/ sister/ social activist" I was really afraid that I had let my identity define me before I came to define myself. Part of me believes that how I have come to see myself came during a period in my life (adolescence) in which I was trying to still figure out who I was a big part of that was queer. While I agree that the big finger to god is a bit unnecessary, typically the church has been one of the first and most prominent places in which LGBT people are not accepted so while it's reasonable that LGBT people reject the church it also boils down to who can make the first stand to welcome which particular community into their arms. Church accepts LGBT or LGBT accepts church? It all depends on how you want to lead your life if you feel safe and comfortable being queer and in a religious setting the thats great but keep in mind that some LGBT people may have felt compelled to reject their religion entirely because they did not feel safe (this is getting a little personal). The reason we have pride is to say we are here and we exist and we want to be heard not pushed into the shadows or rejected entirely by our community members and seen as equal citizens.
What you may want to look into is some scholarly articles on queer assimilation and heteronormativity how it affects members of the LGBT community and make your own decision as to how you want to lead your life not only as a Christian (pardon me if I'm wrong) but a Queer Christian as well.

 

i never liked the whole "proud to be gay" stuff, i mean it's only sexuality and for me that is nothing to be proud of same as brown hair body height etc

 

Never been into the PRIDE stuff myself, as I always think of my self as that mad caver who goes off exploring down holes (steady you lot, I don't mean that), before being gay. It was hard enough convincing myself I was gay in the first place. I am out now but am thinking I need to do more with it. I am desperately want to get into a relationship with a guy and maybe though its not my thing at all, doing PRIDE is the way to go. Been single all my life I should really get out of this rut I have dug myself into.

 

I was raised in a similar kind of household though I think I have much more resentment for the religious people in my life than you do. Despite that I still hold to most of the moral code I was raised with and as such things like the pride parade are not my cup of tea.

Im not flamboyant but I do want my homosexuality to define me. Sex plays a pivotal role in every day life and is a huge part of you whether you want it to be or not. At the same time freeing yourself up to just be you should have nothing to do with the cookie cutter stereotype of being gay. If you like the person you are good but respect any emotions or interests you naturally have no matter how weird or flamboyant they maybe. (*hug*)

To be honest with you when it comes to pride stuff it actually scared me a bit when all these barely dressed people run around at pride parades. The thing is though a tone of those men and women are actually straight and are just having fun and or supporting the LGBTQ members who enjoy that and feel empowered by it. Good for them but I dont feel empowered participating. and yes it is partly giving the finger to...traditional values?? (not sure if thats what I should call it) but those values were part of the force oppressing the gay community so I feel they have every right to act the way they do.

 

I actually love the rainbow, because that to me symbolises bisexual attractions, all the colours intertwined and sometimes you get a full rainbow! Which to me means that sometimes when I meet someone and experience attraction to them, it feels like the sun shining through the rainbow, because that persons qualities just hit all the right spots! (&&&):icon_bigg

 

Hm. Well, let me ask you a question: If you see someone wearing a crucifix, or driving a car with a bumper sticker relating to Christianity or Christian symbology do you think that they are a single issue person who trumpeting an identity or trying to shove their faith down everyone's throat?

I'm guessing not, because such people are (to one degree or another) part of your 'tribe' and also because that kind of thing is generally considered anywhere from pretty normal to a major positive, depending on who you ask. You might make some assumptions about a person based on such symbols, but you would probably also take it as a given that they have much more than their religious faith about them until/unless they proved otherwise. Which raises the question of whether or not you are judging LGBT symbols and the people who own them by the same standard or a different one.

To a certain degree, I would argue that the 'trumpeting an identity' is quite possibly more a matter of your perception (colored by society and the social circles you have moved in) of what is a norm or not than a real thing.

Looking at this from another direction, the major successes of the LGBT movement in gaining acceptance from the wider society have come from making society aware that we are 'everywhere' by being visible. We are your friends and neighbors, your co-workers, your siblings, your children. The wider society needs to see us as human and like them (and as 'good as' them) before we can integrate into it in an honest and fair manner (knowing we exist but only being ok with us as long as we stay out of sight, in the closet, and off the radar is neither honest nor fair).

In addition, pride symbols can make us aware that there are others like us and that we are not alone.

Probably in much the same way that you adopt the Christian mantle without it becoming the bread you live by alone (assuming that you don't of course). Mainly by having other interests and keeping a sense of perspective. I will expend time and energy on those aspects of LGBT life and rights that grab my attention and that I feel like expending resources on. But otherwise I have other things to do like work, friends, pets, etc.

I also take the attitude that I'd rather be 'out and proud' than 'closeted and ashamed'. To me Pride and Pride symbols are a huge part of that rather than the (often rather deliberate IMO) misinterpretation that we're somehow mistakenly feeling pride over an inherent trait that is not an accomplishment.

Also, and just to throw it out there - do you actually know any LGBT people who do make being LGBT 'the bread they live by alone'? Meaning that they literally spend every waking moment dealing with LGBT stuff (in which case I want to know who cleans their house and picks up their dry cleaning). Point being that just because you see someone in a particular context (gay bar, Pride event, praying in church, going to bible study group) does not mean that you have more than the most basic outline of how they live or what kind of person they really are or what they do with the rest of their time.

My 2c worth,

Todd

 

There's definitely people in the LGBT community though who are overly proud. There's a difference between being confident and being proud. Too often in the media, all gay men are portrayed as the half-naked, dyed-hair, constantly in rainbows stereotype. SOME people clearly are that kind of person. They might post things on tumblr or Twitter against straight people, that if you switched the words to gay would clearly be homophobic, like 'someone thought I was straight for a second and I was horrified' and I think it just kinda proves that that person went through a struggle to be ok with who they are, overcompensated a little, and is still a little insecure.

I definitely relate to the struggle being a Christian and gay/bi. There's so much underlying judgement swirling under the modern Christian church. It's just critical to remember to not get that same bitterness to the people that look down on you for being gay. Once you really let go of any anger that you're keeping (directed at yourself mostly) it becomes so much easier to accept yourself and everyone else. I think me, coming from such a conservative home, understand and sympathize a lot better with homophobes than the few NYC or SF gays who believe that if you can't accept me, you're completely EVIL. That's just being selfish and limiting yourself to 1 label. Everyone has numerous sides, and deserves to be respected.

 

There's actually a whole concept around the development of a healthy sense of identity with LGBT people, called the Cass Identity Model that details the steps of being both disgusted with Pride, such as you seem, through being obsessed with pride, like other people are and you may touch on along the way at some point, all the way through to it being something you appreciate and like about yourself without it being a separating factor between you and the rest of your world.

In short, it's a growth process. Stop thinking of it as them adopting the mantle poorly and start thinking of it as a necessary step for them to form a complete and positive view of themselves. Don't begrudge people the awkward middle steps it takes for them to grow into a better person.

 

I'm Christian too and so I understand a lot of this, I was taught homophobia from a very early age but have since learned it's not the right attitude to suppress your feelings and cause pain to yourself and others in the process.