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LGBT News Thousands of Men to Be Pardoned for Gay Sex, Once a Crime in Britain

Discussion in 'Current Events, World News, & LGBT News' started by Nobo, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. Nobo

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    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/2...men.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/
     
  2. Cinis

    Cinis Guest

    I wonder why there's an article about it now when it happened in 2012? But..that aside..aren't they a little late on it? I mean 2012 is just two years before homosexual marriage became legal there ( in 2014 I think...) as far as I remember....

    ---------- Post added 21st Oct 2016 at 02:03 PM ----------

    Plus civil partnerships were a thing since 2004/ 2005 I believe....so...really fucking late with that law!

    ---------- Post added 21st Oct 2016 at 02:12 PM ----------

    Also: Notice how the article only talks about men, despite the law making homosexual acts illegal for both sexes/ genders...well it's probably more men that were convicted but still.

    ---------- Post added 21st Oct 2016 at 02:17 PM ----------

    I also disagree with that activist: Obviously it was wrong that homosexuality was banned then but the state that is taking this back now isn't the same it was then. And those making this new law are not responsible for the old ones.
     
  3. faustian1

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    In the United States, this is not entirely "in the past."

    "A recent example of criminalizing queer relationships is the case of Kaitlyn Hunt. Kaitlyn is a now-18-year-old girl who is being charged with two counts of lewd and lascivious battery of a child resulting from an allegedly consensual relationship with her 15-year-old girlfriend. The Internet has seen a groundswell of support for Kaitlyn, finding her persecution homophobic, unfair, and misguided. This reaction is certainly warranted and points to a larger issue with age-of-consent legislation. This type of legal action takes place all the time, in all types of communities, resulting in new sex offenders to label, monitor, and vilify. The case of Kaitlyn Hunt should open our eyes to the ways in which sex laws are abused in our country — not just for queers but for everyone."​


    The entire post on Huffingtonpost can be read here: Why Queers Should Care About Sex Offenders | Huffington Post
     
  4. darrenPC

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    So... The bill "has fallen at its first parliamentary hurdle".

    The govrnments "rival measure" is to do this:

    which sounds like bullshit seeing as:

    So no. It couldn't "lead to some people being cleared of offences that are still crimes".

    'Turing Bill' for gay pardons fails in Parliament - BBC News
     
  5. 741852963

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    As Mowgli has states, an MP (Sam Gyimah - himself a minority!) has filibustered this so this won't be law.

    An alternative is proposed which involves gay men affected having to apply to have pardons (following reviews!) which is pretty disgusting.

    As the MP Chris Bryant correctly put - why should these men, who have already been mistreated so severely (facing imprisonment, in some cases torture, criminal records, ruined careers, ruined family lives etc etc) essentially have to "beg" the government for a pardon and have to go through what is in effect a second court review all over again. It is disgusting. Could you imagine if say, black people had to "prove" to the US state they had been mistreated during segregation.

    As Mowgli had quoted, simply blanket pardoning those in that list is perfectly fair and should have been the law passed yesterday - as not one of those "crimes" has ANY standing or grey area today - all are acceptable actions and not a tiny bit "criminal". They do not need to be "reviewed on a case by case basis" as suggested.

    If for example blonde people were locked up 50 years ago - would we expect them to have to apply for pardons "just in case" we were right to lock them up for being blonde? Of course not. Because the law is unequivocally discriminatory and ludicrous.

    Presumably you are referring to Turing's pardon which was a one off - this discussion is in relation to the thousands upon thousands of other men affected.

    Only male homosexuality has ever been criminalised - lesbian acts have never been explicitly illegal largely due to the Victorian belief that there was no such thing as lesbian sex. Lesbian relations were frowned upon yes, and open relationships have been historically blocked by negative social treatment and perhaps the risk of other laws interferring (such as blasphemy laws) - but women weren't arrested for lesbian sex in contrast to gay men.

    There are two arguments you hear:
    1. Some disagree with pardons stating they are part of history, no longer relevant, and that because the present Government isn't responsible for these laws it is not their business.

    I disagree and follow the second argument:
    2. These men have had their lives ruined by a very recent government (which is still the same "body" and not that different in structure/practices as it was in the 50s) - the least our present government can do is say sorry and give the men living (or the families of those passed) the peace and freedom that no, they are not criminals, instead citizens who have been abused by the state.

    I don't follow the argument that this is somehow "not relevant" - especially looking at Sam Gyimah's actions today, which shows very clearly that the very same homophobic attitudes responsible for these heinous laws still invades our politics today. We need pardons to begin to draw a clear line with the past. And ideally Sam Gyimah should be disciplined or made to stand down.
     
    #5 741852963, Oct 22, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
  6. faustian1

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    Oh yes, and then there is that one. Nothing highlights a disingenuous political farce more than pardoning a dead man--and a rightly famous one at that--a pile of years later. Everyone can be pious, but the morons who are worried that they might let one guy off who really should have been convicted of whizzing in public can be safely mollified.

    The verification that it was a farce is the rejection of a harmless measure such as this one today. The UK government has become addicted to surveillance and persecution, and openly envies the United States for its breathtaking levels of incarceration for thought- and morals-crimes.
     
    #6 faustian1, Oct 22, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
  7. darrenPC

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    I think i read somewhere that we shouldn't erase history. This is a interesting idea because the men who were made criminals cannot really be given any justice because they're dead - so by removing them of their crimes is it a kind of attempt at covering up the wrongdoing of the justice system of the past?
     
  8. I'm_Danni_x

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    A bit too fucking late?