1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Thoughts on Passing

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by Zoe Kay, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Zoe Kay

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Gender:
    Genderqueer
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I was listening to a podcast today about the topic of passing and they interviewed a writer who grew up being told he was a native American and that he passed for his entire childhood and later found out he was not native. They went on to other stories about passing and it got me thinking...

    For nonbinary people like so many of us, its a complicated subject. I'm somewhere between gender fluid and bigender so when I am feeling very strongly in girl mode, I want to "pass" as the person I feel like; a woman.
    When I am in guy mode, I want to pass as a man. And when I am feeling somewhere in between, how I present is a happy mix of both. But anymore I don't really care what I "pass" as - I just want to pass as me (and not be harassed for it)!

    This got me thinking even more about this subject and it dawned on me that what so many of us spend so many years trying to pass as is whatever society thinks we should be; cisgender. We've been trying to pass as something we are not and its exhausting!

    And of course its easy to pass as something society wants you to be, but not so easy to just be you - and pass as human!

    What do the rest of you think/feel about this?

    XX

    Zoe
     
    #1 Zoe Kay, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
    butterfly1 likes this.
  2. Hillary B

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    uk
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Good one Zoey. Thoughtful thanks. That's fascinating - if I read you right the pressure of 'passing' as yr [birth certificate ] gender is exhausting
    YES IT IS!
    I am mtf genderfluid I want to pass as a woman, yes one day but I'm a zillion away from that now.
    BUT before a night out I lash on even a tiny token bit of eye makeup I FEEL AMAZING.
    So that's where I'm at.
     
    Zoe Kay likes this.
  3. DoriaN

    Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,239
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Canada
    Gender:
    Female
    I don't think it's society so much as it's biology. We're normally meant to be male or female. Sometimes there are complications, and that's where things of intersex and being trans comes into play (like a form of intersex). Anything else aside from this is a construct or philosophy or ideology. How an individual carries themselves is up to them, but there is something to be said in what a particular society may see or understand or accept and many fight to change or influence that.
     
  4. Hillary B

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    uk
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    Out Status:
    A few people
    Those are wise words, Dorian. Thanks. I'm not going to say I'll come out and agree 100% but maybe I needed to hear that just to consider a reset and recalibration. No one shold hold their breath though. Im still with Zoe and want to pass as what has been in me since age 4. Or so.
     
    emerry likes this.
  5. butterfly1

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    somewhere
    Gender:
    Other
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Zoe Kay- I agree. I have tried to "pass" so many times. It felt okay, but not really 100% me. I am coming to terms with who I am.
    The way people are to look and act is so ingrained in society that most people think it is normal and right. When we contradict that ingrained pattern we are not respected for who we really are.
    Boxes are for things, not for people.
    Thank you, Zoe Kay, for your comments. Really appreciated what you said.
     
    Zoe Kay and Hillary B like this.
  6. OtterGrump

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Canada
    As you said, society wants us to pass as cis. But sometimes it's us who really wants to pass as cis because we wish we were cis and didn't have to go through this.
     
    newts and Cody18 like this.
  7. Hillary B

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    uk
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    Out Status:
    A few people
    This is interesting - we are getting under the layers here. Asking the right questions. But I know a part of us says: "Cis? Yes please"
    And another strong true and real thing says inside us: "Be yourself bane. Be beautiful.
    Be free. "
     
    butterfly1 likes this.
  8. Hillary B

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    uk
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    Out Status:
    A few people
  9. butterfly1

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    somewhere
    Gender:
    Other
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    The layers of imposed upon each person by society, and ourselves, sometimes takes a lot of work to get through. Getting to that place within our self that is true, real, and beautiful makes the struggle bearable. Even though, while in the middle of that struggle, we feel like we can't take any more.
    Inside a block of marble is a sculpture. A thing of beauty. Chipping away the layers to find that beauty is what is hard and difficult at times.
    Some how we keep trying.
     
    Zoe Kay and Hillary B like this.
  10. Hillary B

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    uk
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    Out Status:
    A few people
    For me it is keeping on trying and, crucially, moving forward. Then comes beauty, (positive) power and . . happiness.
     
  11. butterfly1

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    somewhere
    Gender:
    Other
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    It is that perseverance that keeps us trying and trying. It also is why people come to websites like this. We seem to want to find, and take hold of, that beauty. We each hope to find the happiness we are searching for.
    Maybe those who impose cis "passing" are envious of the freedom of those who don't "pass".
     
  12. Hillary B

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    uk
    Gender:
    Male (trans*)
    Sexual Orientation:
    Straight but curious
    Out Status:
    A few people
    I see it as an extra power a super power a blessing.
     
    Zoe Kay likes this.
  13. butterfly1

    Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    somewhere
    Gender:
    Other
    Sexual Orientation:
    Other
    Out Status:
    Not out at all
    Sometimes life feels like 3-4 steps forward, then 2-3 steps back. Sometimes we don't always see the forward progress. And question ourselves "What am I doing or not doing?" Other times we see it and tell ourselves "yes, that is it". But if there is truthfulness and we are honest to ourselves, the forwardness is there. If we hide from who we are (and I struggle with this), then there isn't any growth. The butterfly doesn't break out of the cocoon.
    This butterfly is learning how to become free. Not always easy, but still learning.
     
    Hillary B likes this.