This post is the first time I have admitted to anyone other than myself that I have gay feelings. It is difficult for me to write this at all, but I need somewhere to go for help. I hope I am not bothersome to anyone, or that in posting something like this I have violated any norms or standards of this community. If so, I apologize. I have always been the way I am. What has changed over the last few years is not how I feel, only the degree to which I accept how I feel. Throughout grade school I only connected with a few people; I was an outsider. High school was similar, but I became more outgoing and developed better friendships. College was a fresh start, and for the first time I felt like I was completely myself with friends I could never live without. But I still do not picture myself being honest with anybody about my sexuality, even my parents who I know will be supportive, for a while. I know many of you will ask why, and tell me just to get it over with, but I am just not ready yet. I was browsing forums like this for weeks before I decided to even register, and I created a new email just to use for this forum. The reason I am posting this topic is because I, like many others (I know because I have read enough personal accounts), have become deeply attracted to one of my male friends. He is one of my best friends, and I have known him since the 1st grade (although we did not start to become better friends until college when he asked me to be his roommate). As far as I know, he is straight. He has had two girlfriends, and we both talk about girls we (not really me) find attractive (though usually it is a third friend that initiates the conversation). I disagree with the stereotypes about gay men. I don't think being gay just means being a feminine man. I have a deep male voice. I walk like a regular guy. I don't exhibit any of the stereotypical behaviors that gay men are "supposed" to have other than I do not really follow sports, but honestly plenty of straight guys just don't follow sports either. I have never been with another guy. I have only kissed one girl, who was my girlfriend for 3 years. We never had full on sex, stopping at oral. But that was all her, she was very conservative. I would have had sex with her had she let me. But I know deep down inside I would rather be with a guy. Anyway, back on point. I think about my friend every day. I imagine him coming up to me and telling me he is gay, which is literally the only case where I can imagine myself telling him how I feel. He opens up to me, tells me he is sorry, etc. and I cut him short and say I understand because I feel the same way and then proceed to open up to him. After that its all happy ever after...but life doesn't work like that. Yet part of me thinks he feels the same way about me. He is really into sports, more so than me. He is somewhat athletic, but he is no big shot. He is poked fun of a lot by people saying he is weird/gay, but always people are joking (in other words you get the impression if they really felt he was gay they wouldn't actually say that stuff to him) He is OCD when it comes to keeping his stuff clean, and sometimes he does random weird stuff that results in our friends poking fun at him like "are you gay?" but it is never serious (I just repeated myself...lol). His voice is somewhat higher (not girly just not deep) and every once in a while he will say a phrase in a way a stereotypical gay person would, but I don't know if that means anything. He did musical theatre with me in high school, and he sometimes plays those songs on his ipod in our room. He is a virgin...his previous girlfriend was incredibly attractive and she wanted him bad, but he was the one who resisted (not her as in my case). He said he started to give her oral sex once, but stopped after a few seconds saying he didn't like it. Mind you, this girl is hot, great body and face. I always found it odd that he did so little with her (they dated for a year and barely did more than hand jobs), but maybe he just has strong values. I don't know why I am saying all this. I feel we are very similar. Neither of us fit the gay or the straight guy stereotype fully. Sometimes when he looks into my eyes when we are talking I almost feel like he sees me as more than a friend, but I don't know. All I ever do is put on my straight face and censor any emotions I could possibly show to reveal to him how I really feel. And it works as far as I can tell. But it is driving me crazy. Sorry for all this irrelevant information. I simply cannot just talk to him about it, at least not yet. Is there anyway I could better guess how he feels? Is there anything I can do in the meantime until I feel comfortable coming out? I don't know what answers I am looking for. I want to hear that he feels the same about me, but there is obviously nobody that can tell me that. Maybe I just needed to get all this off my chest. Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts.
First, it must be relieving, in a way, to take a step in admitting to yourself your feelings. Many of us here are either experiencing, or have experienced, thoughts and questions about ourselves. Your sexuality is a personal matter that you have to figure out for yourself before you can discuss it with others. It's OK to not be comfortable with sharing your innermost feelings with others, especially your closets friends and parents. Only you can decide when the best time to come out. I think you'll find that you will get only positive reinforcement here. Just remember, your sexuality does not define you - it is only a facet of who you are. Also, if you're not comfortable with a label, don't use it. Many here will insist their sexuality is more 'complicated' than a simple label of gay or lesbian allows. I, for example, just say I'm not straight. You will find that many, possibly most, gay men don't live up to stereotypes. I find that relieving since I love to hunt, fish, dress like a slob, and drink bourbon straight from the bottle. How you behave does not define sexuality - only who you're attracted to. Here's the part that so many of us have had to deal with, are dealing with, and will deal with. There really is no way to tell if somebody you like is gay unless they tell you they're gay. Could your friend be gay? Possibly. Will you drive yourself mad obsessing over it and observing his every move and analyzing his every behavior? Possibly. Before I finally came out to a very close friend, I used to get very jealous when he hung out with other guys because I just knew he was sleeping with them. I found out, however, I fabricated that whole thing in my mind. He's straight as an arrow. Luckily I didn't actually accuse him of it. Here's a possibly better strategy. As you continue to accept yourself and learn more about yourself, learn about him too. What is his position on homosexuality? How does he feel about homosexual issues? This may make it easier to eventually come out to him. All in all, good luck.
I really don't know why the media would cast famine gays as stereotypical gays. That's just plain wrong, but hey that the media for you. Like you I'm not into competitive sports. I did them in school (but I think the main reason behind this was a few sexy guys i wanted to be near with LOL). My voice is like far down below the belt, I really have no fashion sense (other than my own what I make up). I like dune surfing (which is kinda like normal surfing, only on dunes instead of water) and adventurous sports, like I'll take my MTB and drive with that a few hundred km into the desert to go dune surfing and stuff like that. I think there are really different types of gay people, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to fall in any of those categories. Like me for instance. I haven't change because I came to accept I'm gay. The only thing that changes was now I can openly say "Wow, that guy is sexy or he's gorgeous, or I'd like to get in his pants. the same type of comments a normal straight gay would say, only I'll say it to a guy instead of a girl. The fact that your friend didn't like foreplay with a girl and stopped the whole sex thing even though the girl is HOT as you say, might that he too is actually gay, but it could be that he's still unsure of it himself. The fact that your friends tease him to say things like that, there must be a reason or they wouldn't. I could be wrong here, but I don't think so. As for you, well I think you first have to come to terms with it and accept it. Then maybe you can tell your friend. Maybe he even has a secret crush on you but doesn't want to admit it.
You aren't being bothersome or inappropriate--this sort of post is basically the core purpose of the whole forum. I don't think anyone here is going to tell you you just need to get over it. While many people do struggle with unaccepting families, for a lot of us it's our own acceptance that is the biggest challenge. When I was first posting in gay-related forums, I also created new email addresses in order to do it. I strongly recommend finding a way to make some friends in real life that you know are gay. If there is a group for LGBT and allies at your school, you might consider going to that. Although, they are likely to ask you how you identify, which will put you in the position of either telling the truth or lying. Are you still involved in theatre? It really is true that there are a lot of gays in the theater. Do you know anyone who's out? Associating with gay people can do a lot to help you feel more comfortable being gay. And I definitely agree that you have to focus on accepting yourself first--the thing with your friend can't possibly be resolved until that happens. **As a lesbian, I think it's very important to point out that oral sex isn't foreplay. It's a valid sexual act in it's own right. That said, I do think it's possible that your friend's total lack of interest in sex with his ex-girlfriend may indicate that he is gay. It's the most convincing piece of evidence. Interest in musical theatre and "gay" mannerisms are not enough on their own, but when combined with a demonstrated lack of interest in a willing female sex partner, one he was in a relationship with, no less, I think signs are pointing to gay. And he asked you to be his roommate. Any particular reason? Well, I understand you don't feel ready to come out to him yet, but maybe you could just relax a little in terms of the efforts you go to in concealing your sexuality from him. Be less diligent in "putting on your straight face." Would that be possible?
Hi there and welcome to EC. Participating here will help you come to terms with your orientation for sure. The only thing I would add here is that you need to work at separating the feelings you have for your friend from your orientation. The fact of the matter is that you're gay. That isn't going to change - whether or not he every comes out to you as gay himself. So I'd say you should work on dealing with the two things separately. As others have mentioned, look into some kind of LGBT group at school. You can let it be known that you're 'questioning' - you don't need to say that you're gay. You could even say that you're an ally or a supporter of gay rights, because that wouldn't be false. But you could also take the opportunity to be honest with someone too - at some point. And with your friend, you can't pin all your hopes on him coming out to you. Just like you're not ready to come out, he might not be ready to come out either. And he might be years away from being ready to do that - if ever. You don't know. So you can't rely on that happening to make your life better. You need to take responsability for your life independent from him. What do you think he would say if you were to come out? Would he be supportive? If so, it might be a good idea to get this out in the open with him. You don't need to tell him that you've had feelings for him.
Welcome to EC. Don't worry, you're not being bothersome to anybody. xx Everybody else pretty much stole what I was thinking, so this post'll be quick. Not to ruin your parade, but a lot of gays don't fit the stereotypical gay kind of person. However, with everything else you've said, it sounds like he might be gay. Try to find out his position on LGBT issues. Is he supportive of gays? Is he up for gay rights? If he is, then you could try coming out to him. I've also found that often when you start coming out, people start coming out to you. Maybe if you came out to him, he'll come out to you? No guarantees, but if he does, you're in for a treat! Okay, I don't want to keep repeating what everyone else said, so I'll stop this here. Good luck. xx
Pretty much everything has been said so I'm just going to agree with the above posts. What Ianthe said "Be less diligent in "putting on your straight face."" The fact that you act 'straight' as possible isn't helping the situation if you want him to come out to you (if he is gay that is). He may be thinking 'oh my room mate is so straight I have no chance', you see? So just try to relax that defensive wall a little and maybe even flirt with him in a subtle way to gauge his reaction
Thank you all for your kind words and support. It really means a lot to me, and it helps to have this conversation with other human beings lol. I want to try and respond to each of you individually, but anyone can comment on my whole post of course. @cscipio: Thanks for offering your advice. I hate labels. I don't even like to use labels like liberal and conservative in politics; I feel like when people use labels like that they lose sight of the fact that they are talking to an individual person (who probably doesn't fit those stereotypes anyway). And drinking straight from the bottle is one of my trademarks xD. Sometimes I get jealous when he hangs out with people and for whatever reason I am not included...but I really shouldn't get that way. Also, thanks for the strategy haha. I will try to just talk to him more and get him to feel more comfortable with me. Is there anyway I can let him know that if he is gay I would be ok with it (well, obviously more thank ok with it lol)? I can't just say "by the way, if you're gay, I'm cool with it." @thylvin Never heard of dune surfing, but it sounds awesome. I feel the same way. I wouldn't suddenly become all flamboyant and start wearing jean shorts etc. I would literally be the same, just more open about my thoughts. My friend is studying abroad in Germany right now, which sucks because I have virtually no way to communicate with him. He will be back at the end of June, and we plan on going to the gym together for the rest of the summer (none of our other friends are around during the summer). He needs to register for a class at the end of May, and he asked me to do it for him which made me feel good because it shows he trusts me more than others I guess (sad, I know). Literally though, when he called me and asked me right before he left I was really happy. I can't read into that too much though lol. @Ianthe: Glad to know I am not being bothersome, I just feel like you guys hear stories like this all the time. Hate to be repetitive. I am glad nobody will tell me to get over it. If I didn't feel this way towards him, I honestly don't think I would be questioning my sexuality at this point. I broke up with my girlfriend just a month ago (I did enjoy being with her though, despite the fact I wasn't as attracted to her as a straight guy could be) and he was very supportive of me (he and his girlfriend broke up about a year before, because she cheated on him...not surprising because he wasn't "giving" her anything, but we grew closer due to the break ups). He hasn't had a girlfriend since, and hasn't done anything besides briefly make out with two girls on two separate occasions when drunk (both of whom are not too attractive. If he wanted to, he could do way better. He has other girls after him. But he says he lacks confidence). Contrast this to my other roomate, who is not that attractive himself, but who made out with 3 different girls the week after he broke up with his own girlfriend. Something doesn't add up. About why he asked me to be his roomate: to be honest I was surprised (but at the time I did not find myself attracted to him like I do now). We were in plays together for 2 years, during which time we both had girlfriends (for him the hot one came senior year, the average one was the first year). We were friends, but never hung out together outside of rehearsals or school. I was definitely more of the theatre geek in high school than him. Anyway, I always just assumed his mom told him to ask me, because I can see her suggesting that and him just saying ok. I do remember his reaction though. We had lockers near each other, and he came up to me and talked about how we were both going to the same college, and asked if we wanted to room together. I said "ya, sure" and then his reaction is what surprised me. He said "really?" as if he thought I would say no. Not a sarcastic really, but a happily surprised one. I don't know how much I can read into that though. Maybe he is just a straight guy with low confidence. About the straight face (sorry this is getting to be a long response everyone but I have so much I want to say) I'm not sure what I would do. When I say I put on a face, I really just mean I avoiding showing I am attracted to him (I avoid checking him out, I try to make the type of eye contact an uninterested straight guy would do, etc). Its not like I am this flamboyant guy who is pretending to be more masculine. I can't act "gay" around him because even if I were open about being gay I would not do that kind of stuff. I don't know how I can send him the subtle message that I am interested in him. @Jim Thanks for the advice on separating my feelings for him from my orientation. That will be a big challenge for me as I move forward. I did not start coming to terms with how I really felt until I developed feelings for him. In my perfect world we would come out together...I can only dream about that I guess. I don't see myself joining a group like that at my school. But I do have friends who are gay/lesbian (openly I mean. I am suspicious of others). I am not ready to be totally open with him yet. I don't know how supportive he would be, but I can't imagine he would just push me away. My only fear is that if he is not gay and I tell him how I feel about him, he would want me out of his life. That would be very difficult. We have the same group of best friends, and I don't want to ruin that for anyone by making things uncomfortable. I am not ready to tell him, but maybe I can try to get to know him even better and become closer friends with him, maybe dropping some clues/reasons for him to feel comfortable with me, and see where I end up. @CrystalRaindrop Haha man is that my only wish. That I come out to him and he responds by kissing me. Lol. We both have friends who are openly gay (not the flamboyant type though, I feel like they make him uncomfortable. But at the same time, I kinda feel that way too, which is odd. Maybe its because I worry they can see through to what I really feel. Maybe thats what he is thinking. I don't know) @Lad Ya, good point. Sometimes I feel like he tries to hard to be all manly, which makes me laugh, but maybe he just wants to be like one of the cool guys or something. Or maybe he is hiding something. AGH! I wish I could just perform some test to find out right away lol. Someone needs to hurry up and invent that. I don't know how I would flirt with him...maybe I can pretend like I am joking and see what he does? Wow, I am writing may more than I thought. Whoever reads through all this is a saint. I just have two more stories to share for everyone in general. There was a party bus he went on (the friend I like) for one of our friends birthdays (the friend is gay and recently came out to everyone, being friends with him really helped me reconsider my thoughts...we have a ton of mutual friends and everyone could care less he is gay, which makes me feel "safer" I guess), and anyway everyone was wasted to say the least. This girl we are both friends with, I will call her Sue, came up to him and started giving him a lap dance and making out with him (this is briefly on video, neither of us have been allowed to see it buy the girl who recorded it). Again, Sue initiated it, not him. And apparently he was very hesitant to do anything. He didn't give much back I guess (even while drunk) and said it was awkward because he knew her. She is ok looking I guess, not ugly but not hot by any means. When asked why he didn't do anything more, he said it would be awkward because he didn't want a bad reputation and we knew her already...I don't know what to think about that. Other friends we asking what he did as she danced on him, and he said his hands weren't even on her hips. Everyone was all "dude what the hell! You had a chance!" and he kept saying some stuff about not wanting to be "that guy" and saying he had some reputation, it was awkward because we all knew her, people were watching, etc. We are all in this club on campus together, he said he didn't want to be with a girl in that club. Again, if I were a drunk straight guy, I would be all over that girl if she was all over me like that. I mean come on! Even being not straight I would probably be all over her. So I don't get it. Story number two: This happened before the whole party bus incident (I wish I was there dammit...I had a conflict. He said he drank more than he had in a long time, it could have been very revealing to see who he was watching). Anyway, at school we watch episodes of Dexter together, its our favorite show. We went home for Easter, and decided we wanted to finish the season at his house over the weekend. I showed up at around 10:00, and he was watching Sparticus with his mom (awkward as hell lol...lots of nudity. Including half naked guys. Now does he watch the show for the half naked soldiers or the violence and hot girls in it?) anyway, after that we started to watch Dexter and his mom went to bed so it was literally just us alone. I was very turned on at that point, and the way he was sitting on the couch was attractive to me (one of his legs was up). We had fun hanging out that night, but it was dark in the house and it felt awkward because there was a heightened feeling of sensuality. I don't know if he felt it as well, or if it was just me. Anyway, after it finished it was dark and quite and we were both sitting there. I got up and said I better get going, its late (it was around 1 in the morning) and he walked me to the door. I gave a really awkward hug (hoping he didn't think anything of it) and walked out the door. He told me to call him when I got home so he could make sure I was ok. This gave me pause, because that is the type of thing I would say to my girlfriend. But the area his house is in is dangerous (there have been murders down the street) so he might just be a concerned friend. But then, as I was driving away, he called me. He asked if I had gotten into my car safely. I was like...ya...and he responded ok cya later and I said bye. It was awkward. Was he trying to give me a sign that he liked me? Or is he just paranoid/wanting to be a good friend/just awkward? I felt so attracted to him that night. If we were openly gay, something would have definitely happened. What do you all make of this? Has anyone had similar experiences? He seemed awkward as well that night, but I always just assume it is because I can be an awkward person. I don't know. Anyway, let me know what you all think, and thanks!
Even with the two additional stories, there isn't much more to tell you. I'd still say that you need to come to terms with this on your own - regardless of whether or not he's gay. Based on your other friend coming out, you can definitely know that it would be safe for you to come out, and that your crush isn't going to stop hanging out with you. Only if you carry on and tell him that you have a crush on him will it potentially make the relationship awkward. So don't do that. It sounds like you guys are great company, but you need to stop reading into things and assume that he is as straight as an arrow until he tells you otherwise. Until that time, make your own decisions about whether or not you should come out to him independently.
I like how you said he literally lit up when you said 'ya,sure' when asked to be his room mate like as if he was waiting for a no ^^ Well I don't think you should analyse his response as if he is in love with you or something but more like a 'yay he said yes, cool ' The bus scenario with the girl that gave your room mate a lap dance is interesting but nonetheless understandable. If I was straight and was in his shoes, I wouldn't just get with anyone, I need that connection first. This is just me though and everyone is different. You said she isn't ugly but not hot either so its not like she is absolutely stunning. There may be some gayness in your second story though hehe! He could be interested in you if he called to see if you got to your car safely and also wanted you to call to make sure you got back home safe too. Although there have been "murders down the street" as you said so I don't know... he could just be a very caring person? Is he?
Thanks again for the responses. I know it is irrational to base my coming out on whether or not he comes out. If we both feel that way nothing will ever happen. For now though, I am not ready to make that move. And if I did come out, it would probably be to someone else first. I know I shouldn't read into things, but I can't help it. Damn emotions. But there is a part of me that really thinks he may be gay. I just get that vibe, but its not as obvious as some of the other people I know. Ya, the first story is understandable I guess. To me though he hadn't gotten anything from a girl for literally a year. But considering the girl was someone we all knew, it would be awkward I guess. As for the second story, all I can say is that my heart was racing that night the minute the show ended. It was dark, and the only sound was his voice or mine. He is definitely a caring person, but it struck me as odd that he called me to see if I got into my car ok. I was parked in front of his neighbor's house. He is definitely a caring person, and whenever our girl friends (not partners, but friends who are girls) hang out with us he asks them to text when they get back safe. But he never asks any other guys to text back or anything. And he certainly has never called to make sure somebody made it 10 feet to their car. So at least I know he cares about me, at least as a good friend. Oh and he records videos of himself randomly lol...idk if that means anything. He recorded himself dancing to "sbang it girl" and watched it, said to me "I look pretty good doing that", and I (probably shouldn't have) joked that he looked weird, not good at all. He soon deleted it because he said he didn't want anyone else to see it because it was embarrassing, but I told him not to because I thought it was funny. Lol. That's why I like him though :icon_bigg. He also does a perfect elmo impersonation. Anyway, based on what everyone is saying, for now I think I am going to try and be a friend to him, but try to let him know that I would be ok with it if he were gay, and find out how he feels about everything. I don't know what clues to give him as to how I feel about him though...if it is too obvious it might scare him away. Its one thing to have a gay friend, but quite another I think to have a gay friend who is seriously attracted to you. When the other guys poke fun at him, I do too, and always say I am joking. I should probably stop that and maybe defend him? I don't know what to say to him to a). gauge how he feels about me and b) let him know I would be accepting of him if he were gay. I also don't know how much to try and subtly hint how I feel towards him. When he gets back from his trip, we will be going to the gym around 10, and then watching Dexter at his house afterwards later at night (alone most likely). Is there anything in that setting I could do? Thanks everyone for dealing with my rants, etc. You've all been really helpful. I feel better now being able to express myself like this.
Yeah it does seem odd that he called you to make sure that you got in your car. The next time your room mate gets bullied on for being gay then you could say 'hey! he's not gay, and even if he was, I would have no problem with that' :icon_wink then see what his reaction is. Yes, when you watch Dexter, do you guys sit next to each other on the couch? If so then you could try placing your leg next to his like sort of touching but not in a forceful way. If he moves his leg then he is probably straight, and if he keeps his leg there then he could be gay.
Hahaha I like it. I'm usually the one cracking smart ass rude jokes about people, so it will be interesting to gauge people's reactions when I end up defending someone. We have only done that at his house in that setting once (normally in our apartment on campus, and other people are always in there). We weren't both sitting on the couch. He was on the couch, but I was in a chair. The problem is if he did that to me, I can imagine myself moving my leg away precisely because that is what the "straight" response would be. I wouldn't do that now, because obviously I don't want to give that vibe like before, but if he is like I was not too long ago he will probably move away whether he is gay or not. But if he doesn't, that would be interesting. Now I'm trying to think of all the times our legs possibly touched haha...:rolle: For all I know he has been on sites just like this asking the same questions (or not). I just wish he would get back from Germany already...I'm jealous I can't hang out with him.
No. You should go to his house, as his friend, without expectations and without alterior motives, and just watch Dexter. Period. This isn't a game. And it isn't something that you need to tippie toe around. If you're not willing to come out to him (which you have said you're not) then there's nothing else to do really. If you're willing to try putting the move on him then you should be willing to come out to him - because that's essentially what you'll be doing. Only you'll be doing it in a way that could potentially really creep him out. So you certainly could take the opportunity to tell him something that has been weighing heavily on you and that you wanted him to know - that you're gay. But if you're not willing to do that in a mature and honest way, then don't plan on doing anything. That would be my advice.
Thanks. I would not want to make some move on him or anything, that would be creepy (and as you said if I were willing to do that why not just tell him).
I finally came out to him (my crush that is). He was very accepting of me. Sadly there was nothing more. I am still trying to get over him, and I need to face the reality he will never share the same feelings that I have for him. Before I came out to him, he asked if I wanted to pretend to make out with him, which I thought for sure meant he was gay, but I guess he's just weird. He still does little things for reasons I don't understand even after I told him I was gay (he sensually touched my leg the other day, even after knowing I was gay) but they probably mean nothing. I just don't know how to stay friends with him--because regardless he is one of my best friends who I have known since gradeschool--and get over him at the same time. Any advice? P.S. When I came out to him, he thought I was joking. It literally took me 10 minutes talking to him for him to say "wait are you actually serious?" He said if I hadn't told him, he would have never guessed or known. My other three friends I told were equally shocked.
Congratulations for coming out to him and your other friends It's a shame he didn't come out to you in return but maybe he needs time (if he is gay). Just be happy that he accepted you and there has been no change in behaviour from him. That is a great friend! However if the flirting from him is bothering you then just talk to him about it, I'm sure he will understand.
