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Sexuality and masturbation

Discussion in 'Sexual Orientation' started by chris123, Nov 8, 2019.

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  1. Chip

    Chip
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    I'm not angry. The issue is, you need help, and rehashing the same information (which can be confusing to other forum members) is not helpful either to you or to them. Please get help.
     
    #21 Chip, Aug 12, 2020
  2. chris123

    chris123
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    No, still no arousal from men ( I think ) but the idea of kissing a man gives me this feeling of excitement/anxiety. But what I think it might be is excitement then anxiety at the fact I'm feeling excitement, like I'm somehow scared of these feelings as they don't fit with my self perceived identity. It does feel like once my anxiety goes down I don't really feel this attraction/ excitement and more of a meh. But even writing this I feel like I'm lying to myself.

    Thoughts of having sex with a guy...I don't know. I don't know what to think. The thing is, I have been on OCD sites and they were like "oh I wish these thoughts would just go away" whereas I don't really know if I would want that. They've been on my mind so much for so long it feels like it has been growing as part of my identity. Or is that just me realising this new side of me?

    I also don't know why I don't just talk to my family about it. They are very liberal, my sister and her female partner are awesome, they wouldn't have an issue. I've never really been an open person, or one to be proactive, I think I got this from my dad growing up as I don't think I've ever heard him talking about his feelings either. My sister has psychotherapy before as she felt depressed/down, and now she couldn't be better, but I remember her telling me my dad was actually a lot more understanding than my mum and that he said he suffered/suffers from anxiety too, which I can see. Those little hidden things you pick up on when you struggle with it yourself.

    Anyway, therapy. Chris. Do it. Even if it's unlocking my sexuality, or tackling my OCD (which I'm not even sure it is tbh).

    Last note - whenever I just breathe, imagine myself with a guy, accept the thoughts, then feel any kind of genuine happiness about a feeling I'm trying to imagine is there, my mind will automatically switch to a girl. Same with when I try to masturbate to gay thoughts. Now not sure whether this is the "true" me, or just a defense mechanism/suppression my mind is doing to protect me against this thought, this idea, which causes me so much anxiety - that I'm not straight.
     
    #22 chris123, Aug 17, 2020
  3. PatrickUK

    PatrickUK
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    You said it yourself, this is what you need to do and I would strongly recommend seeking out a therapist who understands OCD issues and refrain from closing your mind to the idea that all of this is nothing to do with OCD. If you are going for therapy you need to go with an open mind and willingness to explore issues.
     
    #23 PatrickUK, Aug 18, 2020
  4. Chip

    Chip
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    Well... here's the interesting thing. Anxiety and OCD both stem (at least, according to Gabor Maté's work, which I put a lot of stock in) from early childhood trauma, bonding failures, and the like. So along with anxiety, depression, and other mood disorders, you nearly always have a suppression of needs and a numbing of emotion. Thus, while the anxiety comes forth, the capacity to feel connection to others probably does not. But the emotions aren't so much tied into unconscious sexual drives.

    So based on that, I'd hold to my guess (and it it only that) that you don't have any actual sexual arousal toward men, and what you're really dealing with here is a suppressed or limited capacity to experience your emotional self, and the cause of that is the same cause as the anxiety/OCD-like symptoms.

    All of these point, strongly, to the sort of suppression of your needs as a child that gives rise to the emotoinal issues you're having. This doesn't make your parents bad parents; it just means that they passed onto you whatever they learned from their own parents, who learned it from their parents, and so on. This is why a lot of stuff in the emotional/psychological realm that appears to be genetic is actually not, but is still passed down through the family.

    That, right there, is profound. The 2 year old or 6 month old or 4 year old child learns, very early, if s/he can ask for needs and have the needs answered. If not, the child learns to stop asking. And that causes anxiety and depression and a bunch of other stuff.

    Yes. Do it. :slight_smile: The key is finding someone competent. Unfortunately, the world of therapists is full of inept ones, so don't be afraid to talk to a bunch by phone, ask questions, and even try several sessions before you decide if a given therapist is a fit for you.

    This sounds like pretty solid evidence against any notion that you're gay. But again, with OCD, the problem is, brain neurochemistry gets in the way of logic and common sense.
     
    #24 Chip, Aug 18, 2020
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  5. chris123

    chris123
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    Very interesting insights Chip, thanks for that. I've contacted one by email explaining the situation who has responded with the following.

    Hi Chris

    Many thanks for your email. I have helped many clients with pure O (although it's never really pure as there are usually lots of internal compulsions, checking and avoidance compulsions). I will use the short terms so that it doesn't set off any filters, but I've helped people with HOCD, harm OCD (self/others) and POCD (if we are just talking about Pure O).

    As well as ERP/CBP with Pure O, I usually get into third wave CBT approaches, such as applied mindfulness, as pure O has a habit of replacing one frightening obsessional thought with a different one when ERP has worked for one. The mindful component will help you to see that you are not your thoughts and it is your noticing self that decides what you engage in. We might also get into what else you might be spending your time doing that is life enhancing if pure-o wasn't eating into your time.

    You are right to check out a person's experience with pure o because in the wrong hands you will just have a lovely person chatting with you about the thoughts in your head, which you are already probably doing yourself and it's not working.

    I'm just working online at the moment and sessions are £110. Please call me if you would like to speak further or book an appointment. I'm covered by Bupa, WPA, Aviva, AXA also.

    My mobile signal at home is poor if it rains, but it will work if you have an iphone or if not, if you use what'sapp. If I am doing a session and I can get to the phone, please leave me a message and I will call you back. Alternatively, if you send me your number I can call you.

    Best wishes

    Helen

    What would be a good next step? To give her a call and have a bit more of a chat with her? Ask her if she has experience with LGBT clients too? The only thing I'm skeptical about is doing it over Skype. I feel like it won't be as personal/easy to connect?

    I'm lucky to be in a financial position where £110 is doable as I'm not under any private insurance but under the NHS in the UK.

    I need to make this step as once I get a thought along my orientation in my mind, it sticks, and I need to feel like I have certainty. My family also ask me why I'm always tired, as no matter what time I go to bed or wake up, I always feel like I could sleep, and I think a part of it is from the anxiety this rumination gives and time I spend trying to figure out an answer.
     
    #25 chris123, Aug 26, 2020
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  6. chris123

    chris123
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    "

    That, right there, is profound. The 2 year old or 6 month old or 4 year old child learns, very early, if s/he can ask for needs and have the needs answered. If not, the child learns to stop asking. And that causes anxiety and depression and a bunch of other stuff."

    On this, I'm not sure if you understood me correctly, or maybe I'm not understanding you. I meant that as I have anxiety issues, I feel I can pick up on habits/subconscious behaviours or "tells" that my dad may be feeling anxious about something too, because they are recognisable in that sense. (Zoning out, rubbing fingers/fidgeting, etc)

    (Sorry, my quote tool didn't work as I intended)
     
    #26 chris123, Aug 26, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  7. Chip

    Chip
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    I'd arrange a call and see if she'll give you a free phone consult of a few minutes. Third wave CBT can be effective in addressing the symptoms, but (as with any cognitive or behavioral approach) doesn't do a whole lot for the underlying issue that caused the problem, so in my experience, a combination of practical (CBT) and insight-based (exploring the issues that gave rise to the OCD-like behaviors) is really helpful. The insight process takes a lot longer but when you understand why the behaviors cropped up in the first place, and that when you see them in your current life, you're essentially regressing back to an earlier coping strategy, it makes it easier to let go of the now-ineffective behavior.

    The behaviors you are seeing in your dad were likely passed down to you. Not genetically, but by learned behavior, because he, in turn, learned it from his own parents. Fidgeting, zoning out, etc are all numbing behaviors. They take you out of the current uncomfortable, difficult situation so you don't have to feel it. It's likely a learned behavior that you adopted. The child (or now, adult) that does this because, at some point, s/he was around uncomfortable situations and could not get his or her needs met, so asking for the uncomfortable situations to stop was not effective... so s/he learned other behaviors to distract from the discomfort.
     
    #27 Chip, Aug 26, 2020
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