As much as I hate Democrats, the Republicans in the House have proven that this statement is two sided as all hell. In fact, as an observer who hates both parties with the heat of a hundred million burning suns, I see a lot more of this petty bullshit out of the Republican side. Hell, the amount of statistical bullshit and outright lying from the Republicans is shocking. Yea, the Democrats do it all the time, and fuck them for it, but it's not at all the same degree. ---------- Post added 16th Aug 2014 at 12:51 AM ---------- How's the lower class been doing?
Do some research that "surplus" is more BS from Jerry Brown, California is still broke with obscenely high taxes. Also, please do tell me why you think the border is corrupt? I'd like to understand where you're coming from. Also, that map is nearly 6 years old. Look into more recent numbers please, the map has changed quite a bit.
The fact that you fail to see the concern with this is really troubling, but not terribly surprising given the rest of your views. The issue here is that Texas is one of the largest states and therefore is able to dictate curriculum for textbooks, since the school systems in the state are responsible for a large portion of national purchases. So when a backwards state dictates blatantly factually wrong information be written into textbooks that will be used, from K-12, to teach a generation of kids blatantly wrong information based on religious belief instead of science, that has very, very serious repercussions for the country as a whole. This has been written about extensively, and everyone who is an intellectual with a brain, whether conservative or liberal, recognizes how dangerous it is to teach a generation of kids information that could stifle scientific research. Additionally Perry and others in Texas actually attempted to pass a bill prohibiting the teaching of critical thought in high school students, using an argument to the effect of "Well, we don't believe that children should be critical of their parents and teachers." The danger of a society full of "yes men" who believe whatever they are told and not taught to analyze and criticize cannot be overstated. That sort of collective lack of will is what gives rise to some pretty dangerous things. But I don't expect you to acknowledge, agree with, or even respect any of the above. I suspect that attempting to have a rational conversation to talk openly and vulnerably about these sorts of concerns -- which are neither Democratic nor Republican, but simply basic values that *everyone* should care about -- is not going to be possible based on the positions and arguments and responses you've offered thus far. Thus, I'll basically trust that the EC community is intelligent enough to figure out for themselves which viewpoints make the most sense and are the most grounded in reason, thought, and concerns for society as a whole. There is a reason young people are fleeing to Texas as fast as possible, including me! Texas is the last place in the country where the middle class is alive and well and growing every year. The economy is booming and land is cheap! Places like Dallas and Houston are fantastic places to live with large gay communities and mostly accepting people. I don't understand why people hate on Texas so much. People focus in on petty things and talk about how backwards of a place it is, well it isn't. Look at the ultra liberal states and tell me how well the economies are doing there. California is broke, Detroit is dead, Chicago is just about the most corrupt city on the face of the planet. So sure, I guess the liberal states have gay marriage and restrictive gun laws to make ignorant people feel safer. Too bad none of that matters since everyone is broke, unemployed and miserable. I'll take a high paying job, house and financial security over textbooks that teach about evolution. :roflmao:[/QUOTE][/QUOTE] I do feel that you are personally attacking me, it's okay to not agree with me, but don't call me stupid which is what you essentially just did. Just because I have differing political viewpoints does not make me stupid, just as it does not make you stupid. This is the exact reason why nothing ever gets accomplished in this country. Everybody never tries to have a reasonable conversation about anything relating to political beliefs. I do agree with you 100 percent. Teaching false information because religious politicians fail to understand science is a really shitty situation. The problem is the education system in this country is so shitty that nobody is really getting a good education. Not people in Texas, and not people in New York. Everybody is being taught to pass a standardized test and that's all. Everybody is a drone with no practice knowledge of how things work in the world. Every state dictates the education their students curriculum and it's nobody wins in that situation. The teachers lose, our student lose and our future loses as well. I was just stating that I do not believe anybody in Texas is going to grow up without learning about evolution. I doubt I would be able to go to Texas and find that everybody who just graduated high school is somehow comepletely unaware of the process of evolution. What I'm getting at is that Texas isn't a bad state, the governor might be a complete moron, but Texas is an economic powerhouse and a really great place to be. Young people are desperate for jobs and a starting point, Texas is offering this to anybody with skills and the desire to relocate. That's all I'm saying, let's please keep this one civil and free of personal attacks. ---------- Post added 16th Aug 2014 at 03:25 AM ----------
I apologize if you inferred that from what I was saying. It was not my intent. This is true. There are a lot of really terrible teachers everywhere. The research I've seen indicates there's a huge generational difference in teaching quality; the current crop (obviously, with many notable exceptions) doesn't have the same dedication as their predecessors. However, standardized testing I don't think is the answer, because, as we're seeing, then school systems build strong incentives (or punishments) for teachers and principals and schools based on test scores, which means many teachers are "teaching to the test" and the entire point of the testing is lost. I don't know what the solution is, but the current one isn't working. Likewise, there are a lot of really terrible charter schools and homeschooling programs, often thinly veiled blatant religious brainwashing programs, or crappy one-size-fits-all programs run by massive national corporations who don't give a crap about anything except getting public education money. And given that many private school teachers are paid substantially less than their public school counterparts, I don't think that's necessarily the solution either. THe whole thing is a mess. But Texas is particularly bad; if students aren't going to get out of school without being taught a bunch of ignorant religious dogma, that's a very serious problem, and people like Rick Perry are a big part of the problem. I'll give you that housing is cheap and the climate isn't terrible. I've spent a fair amount of time in a number of cities there (Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio) and less time in a number of others, so I have some inkling of what it's like. But with a handful of exceptions (Austin, notably) it's generally a really terrible place for gay people, for people who aren't religious, people who are lower income/lesser educated. It may be an economic powerhouse and perhaps a great place for businesses to locate, but the other factors -- and crazies like Rick Perry -- are enough to keep me away. Agreed.
That's my issue. It's all middle class this, middle class that (and tax cuts for the upper class). What does the lower class get?
Most students are not ready for the workforce after leaving high school. I see it at work when we interview for new positions. The majority of resumes we receive are tossed immediately for blatant spelling and grammar errors. I've seen the work that undergrad students crank out, sadly it's not much better in most cases. The solution for our education system isn't going to be a simple and easy to implement system. It's going to take a lot of effort and major changes to the entire system to see results in students. No Child Left Behind was a huge step back for the entire system and yet nobody seems to want to make real changes. I've spent a lot of time in Dallas and thought it was a great place to be. I understand that more rural places will be uncomfortable for gay people. However, most of rural America is generally homophobic. Even northern California, a state where most people associate with LGBT rights, is incredibly homophobic. For me, Dallas offers financial security and an accepting environment where I feel comfortable enough to be open about my sexuality. If I had the opportunity to move somewhere such as California I would. Cost of living in California is too unbearable for me and I would really have a hard time getting by. ---------- Post added 16th Aug 2014 at 04:33 AM ---------- Opportunities for the lower class to reach the middle class. Our middle class is shrinking, this is very bad for everyone. Our goal is to grow the middle class, not shrink it.
See ya', Slick Rick! Because teaching facts in textbooks is SOOOOOO overrated. There's a reason why Texas ranks 49th in education and 50th in high school graduates, while being the state with the 2nd most people. You call THAT teaching the next generation? I have a friend who lives outside of Dallas-Fort Worth and it is generally very accepting. However, when the state GOP says that they endorse "gay reparative therapy", that reflects on the entire state, since a majority of Texans are republican (for now). Try living in Texas or any Southern state for that matter as a gay teenager. Let's see... teenage pregnancy rates, poverty, happiness index, gun safety index, abstinence only sex education, anti gay, anti choice, xenophobia, those are just a few reasons to not like Texas. Economies in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, and Rhode Island are all doing well, and California posted a budget surplus. Detroit has been ravaged by republicans at the state level for over 50 years, and NAFTA (signed into law by Clinton but was a VERY republican plan) was the straw that broke Detroit's back. And Chicago as the most corrupt city? I would have went with Pyongyang, or Moscow, or Kabul, or any of those countries with a high corruption index, but whatevs. Also, if you want to talk about miserable states, Vermont, Hawaii, Washington, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Maine, California, and Maryland all have a higher happiness index than Texas. But I guess facts take a liberal bias? Again, because teaching the next generation is so overrated. Also, Texas ranks 30th on per capita income, and is below the US average on household income, and is average when it comes to financial security. And why is the middle class shrinking? It's because our country has put too much of a burden on the middle and lower class, and not enough on the rich when it comes to taxes. Corporations also giving out poverty wages when the cost of living goes up is no way to reinvent the economy.
Hmm. You know, reading this thread a couple of questions come to mind...specifically for Stridenttube: a) It's fairly obvious that you are quite conservative and consider the conservative viewpoint to be the correct one. But conservatives also say that gay people are an abomination on existence, that we are actively evil, that we seek to destroy civilization and all want to have sex with underage boys. As a gay man, are you like this and do you want to do all these things? If so, why would you support those who are so against you? If not, doesn't that mean that conservatives are wrong about LGBT people and therefore, by extension, at least potentially wrong about much else they claim? b) You make it pretty clear that you really don't like liberals and think we're evil and awful people (because after all conservatives say we are). Yet, on this forum you've more than once posted things indicating you were hurting and feeling alone and unhappy. And a whole host of people, including me (a proud liberal) stood up to support you and buck you up and try to make you feel better - presumably because the conservatives weren't. So, if we're all so awful, how do you square that with trying to help you? Curious, Todd
There's a big difference between social conservatism and economic conservatism. Stridenttube seems to be more of the latter. I seriously highly doubt someone on here is homophobic. Also it seems, you fail to realize that there are 2 sides to every coin and that as much as conservatives are saying liberals are evil and awful, liberals are saying right back to them. You are even implying that you agree with the liberals who say conservatives are awful by implying that conservatives don't care about other people at all and only liberals do.
Thanks Some Dude! I'm more socially liberal and economically conservative. And for AkTodd to say that every conservative is basically a nut job is very offensive to me. I know liberals who hate gays as well. I don't understand why you think that because I have a right wing leaning on certain things that I'm somehow some self hating gay guy? And then to go and say I hate liberals? What the hell man, I don't hate anybody. Just because I disagree with someone's policies or ideas doesn't mean I hate them, but then again I guess this mentality is why nothing ever gets done. I came to this site for support just like everyone else, and for you to go and tie my issues with my potilical leaning is disgusting. Just as me and Chip were trying to have a nice and civil discussion, the personal attacks start coming this way. I don't know why we can't have a debate about politics without putting each other down.
If you want your right-wing utopia, go to Kansas where their extreme fundamentalist governor, Sam Brownback, and his GOP legislature have cut taxes by 20% and shifted the tax burden down onto the middle and lower class, have gutted public education to encourage parents to opt for religious indoctrination homeschooling, increased the sales tax, and proposed ending the income tax altogether. The result: Kansas now has a $700 billion budget deficit, their credit rating was downgraded, the economy is in the toilet, and if Brownback is re-elected this fall, Kansas will become the first US state to have to declare bankruptcy. That's what happens when you put "fiscal conservatives" in charge, stridenttube. ---------- Post added 16th Aug 2014 at 12:16 PM ---------- Oh and by the way, before you trash Detroit, Detroit is what happens when you have free trade: all your manufacturing jobs go away. The reason Detroit and Flint look the way they do is not because of progressivism, it's because of deindustrialization caused by free trade agreements.
Where do you get these stats from? Again, where do you get these stats from? While you are partially correct, Texas hasn't been 30th for many years now. Being a little over a thousand dollars a year under the national average is offset by the lower cost of living. For example, gasoline is approximately 60 cents cheaper per gallon in Texas than in Nevada.
Thanks, I was wondering where these stats came from myself. I couldn't find anything to support these stats online. Texas has no income tax as well, its a state where you can really stretch your paycheck.
To go back to the origin of this thread, if Rick Perry is convicted of that which he is indicted for, he should go to jail. Not a political opinion, it is an anti-criminal opinion. Don't care what party he is a member of. Having said that, this thread and threads like it end up generating more hate than a joint NOM-KKK convention. Again regardless of political slant, if you try arguing against someones politics with hate, it turns of most readers, and listeners, and can in fact turn them against you. I encourage you to go back through this thread and replace republican with democrat, and Rick Perry with Barack Obama, or Bill Clinton. Would you listen to the arguments if they were made against your candidate? It would be much more effective for a candidate or his supporters to explain what they can do for me, than why I should hate his opponent. For example, tell me you are going to mandate that my marriage is to be recognized in all 50 states, or you are going to lower my tax bill, allowing me to have a more comfortable life. Don't try telling me that all Republicans hate me and think I'm an abomination, I personally know republican's in office that feel differently, and are working toward equality. Let's try to tone down the hate, it is counterproductive to our cause. I am not saying we cannot discuss beliefs and why we don't agree with them, just not to use hate to make the arguments. When we use hate it makes us no better than NOM, the KKK, the WBC, or any other organization that hates us.
I wasted too much time trying to find the same numbers. Having lived in the worst education state previously, I know that it isn't Texas. I forgot about the whole state and local income taxes that so many other folks have to deal with. ---------- Post added 16th Aug 2014 at 11:54 AM ---------- I fully agree that all criminals should go to jail.
(Education) State Legislators Release Grim Statistics On Texas Versus Other States - 04-22-2013 : Houston Pub... Houston Public Media | Public Radio and Television | University of Houston (Per capita income and median household income) 2010 census data. Granted, census data is a little outdated, the situation still hasn't gotten much better for the middle class in Texas. It's no well kept secret that schools in Texas are below par for the course.
Guys, keep it civil. As much as republicans are the minority and, as a currently-configured party (hijacked by the religious right), would love to lock up all gay people and eliminate all social services, Stridenttube, unlike most Republicans we've had here, seems pretty reasoned and willing to engage in conversation. So let's not attack or pile on. EC welcomes and encourages debate as long as it isn't veering into personal attacks, which some of the above posts are getting awfully close to.
