Religion Forum

I'm personally not comfortable with the idea of having a sub-forum for religious discussions. As others have already said, it's an extremely touchy issue (especially on a LGBT forum) that's bound to produce uncivil debate/discussion. However, I like the idea of creating a "sticky thread" somewhere on the forum dedicated to providing quality (and staff approved) resources about both LGBT and non-LGBT religious topics.

 

...I actually think, if it's handled correctly, this could help cut down on religious flame wars. If there were a subsection dedicated not to religious discussions in general, but specifically as a support section for people who identify as both LGBT and Christian/Jewish/Muslim/etc., the flame-warriors might be less likely to post there in the first place, and hopefully would be more respectful of the fact that it's not really their territory, so to speak. Especially if an admonition is added to the description reminding people that the purpose of the subforum is to support the religious LGBT community, and that discussions must be kept respectful.

I could actually see this being quite helpful for some members.

 

Please do this. I am lost in all this and i want to learn and believe but i dont know where to start.

 

I appreciate this Chandra I really do. You explained it better than I could on here.

 

I'd have to disagree with this. This forum would just give religious people a stranglehold on this site and make atheists feel that it's not a safe place to go anymore. I've seen it happen on a few other LGBT forums. Are you going to give atheists a forum too? No? Then why do religious people get a forum? It's preferential treatment of one group of people because they have a majority.

It mimics the dynamic between LGBT and heterosexuals all too closely. Heterosexuals are the majority, so they think that gives them power over the LGBT population. When LGBT people dare to speak out against their oppression, heterosexuals claim they're being discriminated against. It's the same with religious people and atheists. I think a forum like this will add a oppressive element to this community that it won't be able to rid itself of.

 

that's going a bit far, i just think it would just attract fights.

maybe we can mention the word 'faith' in the description of the support and advice forum? It's currently:

"A supportive place to ask for and give advice about coming out or other important subjects."

just an idea

 

Well, I would like a place where I can talk and receive advice about shamanism, but it just feels like it would be kicking a hornets nest.

Also, it isn't going that far. Christians can be extremely militant about their beliefs.

 

there already is such a place, the support and advice forum doesn't discriminate on subject.

and so can atheists.

 

Pretty much all people of all religions can be. As can everyone who has a stand on anything.

I think that merging it with S&A is a decent idea, but on the other hand it isn't. Given that it (by description) attracts typically LGBT related problems, the majority of the community can get together from a relatively common standpoint and give advice and opinions. And people respect that, since we're all in somewhat similar boats.

With people coming with many different religions, I don't think the same respect will be present, as sad as it is to say. It's a much more combative topic with everyone coming from different backgrounds.

 

it wouldn't really change the S+A forum, as i said above it doesn't discriminate on subject; it would just provide direction for people wondering where to go with their faith issues. I think the rest of EC would respect that, regardless of faith or lack thereof.

 

I think there should be a non religious forum as much as there should be a christian forum. That sounds fair to me. People who identify as non religious can talk about issues in the Non religious forum and christians can talk about issues in the christian forum. I know its kind of divisive and Im all for unity but we have other forums for unity where religion does not really have to be discussed.

 

It sounds a bit separatist, i think while that might cause more problems than it would solve

 

I do agree it does sound separatist and there is no unity in that idea. Although there should be specific forums for different issues of concern. My whole point is when user creates a thread on accepting his sexuality and how to reconcile with his religion this guy could be a deeply religious person and atheist comments on that thread saying "Don't be a christian its lame" than the topic will eventually get out of hand when all the thread creator is just looking for advice on this issue. If someone post a thread saying they want to leave the church and become a atheist I will not pressure them in anyway to stay religious. If I were to do that anyone is free to call me out on that. However it is uncontrollable what people post on here unless a website moderator finds it over the top offensive.

 

I think that creating separate forums like that would cause too much division and completely go against the unity that the site is trying to convey between users. Personally, I don't think your example for the thread really works either. First, I don't think that a member of EC would be that insensitive while posting in a thread. Second, if by some off chance somebody did post something like that it does not necessarily end up having the whole thread get out of hand. The OP could obviously see that that specific poster does not have anything to contribute to the situation, so why pay any attention to it? Just skip on over it and continue to the next post. Or if the OP found it truly offensive just report it and and skip over it. It would only get out of hand if the OP and the person then started fighting about it, which wouldn't happen if the OP just ignored the unhelpful post. It takes two to argue.

And just out of curiosity, I'm going to change your scenario a tiny bit. What if instead of an atheist posting "don't be a Christian, it's lame," another religious person said "Christianity is lame, you should become Buddhist." What then? That person would also be putting down Christianity just like the atheist in your example. Would this person allowed to post in your separate religion forum? Technically they are talking about their religion. An argument could break out over that just as much as over the comment by the athiest, so why should we make a separate forum that would keep only one of them out? It just doesn't make sense to me to make a separate religion forum for this. I personally feel like you are trying to scapegoat atheists as the only people who might possibly make comments that people could argue over (key word there is could...like I mentioned earlier, it takes two to argue...)

 

I appreciate your input and no i am not trying to scapegoat atheists. I agree that any religious view or non religious view no matter if its buddhist, islam, judaism, and even christianity would cause as much problems as atheism. I think we can all agree that any controversial subject such as religion will cause problems like it has been for years and years.

 

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with this. How do they have a majority? Christian (or otherwise religious) LGBTs are a minority group within the LGBT community, just as LGBT people are a minority group within the larger population. And just as the argument that "straights should have a support forum if gays have one" is flawed (because straight people aren't oppressed, so they don't need one), I disagree with your statement that atheists should have a subforum on an LGBT site because religious people have one.

The LGBT community does not generally discriminate against atheists or hold strongly anti-atheist views. Nobody is going around telling people they can't be both atheist and gay. Religious LGBT people, on the other hand, are told these kinds of things all the time, and often do not find a lot of support from either community. Thus the need for a subforum where they can specifically find that support that they are lacking. I have nothing against us starting an atheist subforum if people happen to be especially interested in discussing that topic, but the argument that there should be one because otherwise it's "preferential treatment" is highly problematic, in my opinion.

Edit: I should add that I'm stating this opinion as a non-religious person myself.

 

agreed with all of that, as a self-described militant agnostic

 

I have to agree with this. We have at least two concurrent topics going on in which we have religious people are making what is really a bogus claim that they aren't respected enough; when in reality this place was made, I would assume, for LGBT to come and feel safe. How can they do that when that which persecutes them -- main stream religion - in the real world also stalks them here?

Also, I would like to make a comment regarding this 'militant atheist' idea. For several millenia, the religions of mass have been EXTREMELY militant, to the aforementioned point of severe violence against those they dislike - LGBT being among them. Now atheists are being called militant, for standing their ground with words?

Wow.

Thats just Idiotic.

Militant is flying planes into buildings.
Militant is beheading people for loving each other.
Militant is planting bombs in abortion clinics.
Militant is launching multiple crusades/jihads/insert title here.
Standing ones intellectual ground and using logic, reason, and education to enlighten the masses? NOT FREAKING MILITANT. :bang:

 

I think your feelings might be getting the better of you on this subject. I've been there before, many times.

I am a militant agnostic - does that make me an idiot? I mean, i will thoroughly and stubbornly describe faith as irrational and unnecessary, and (most) religions as detrimental to society. I'm loud with those opinions too, often to the point of being a prickly little pear.

Firstly, militant is an adjective, and just like other adjectives has degrees of application. More information is required from the person using it before jumping to the conclusion they mean violence.

But, even in those terms, remember that militant atheism in the sense you consider absurd has and does occur. The russian orthodox clergy was murdered en masse in the soviet union in an effort to stamp out the religion all together.

 

Pseudojim - Dont forget that stalin thought of HIMSELF as god. He was no less corrupt than the religions around him. Insofar as Militant - the definition may include aggressive support, but to make the comparison that atheists - or LGBT for that matter - are anywhere NEAR as 'militant' as the religious whackos that screw with us is incredibly short sighted.