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Prejudice and Relationships

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Gen, Feb 6, 2015.

?

What would be your reaction?

  1. I wouldn't be able to forgive.

    5 vote(s)
    21.7%

  2. I would be able to forgive, but never forget.

    11 vote(s)
    47.8%

  3. I would be able to put it all behind me.

    7 vote(s)
    30.4%
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  1. Gen

    Gen
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    Please direct quote a section of my posts were I have said something even slightly to this effect.
    That is not even moderately close to what I said.
    People who are not educated on the subject of sociology tend to use the words prejudice and racism/sexism as though they are synonymous. This is incorrect. Prejudice is the universal disliking of members of a specific social group. Racism, for instance, is a psychological and sociological effect of prejudice. It encompasses the violence, discrimination, scrutiny, and oppression that is created as a result of prejudice. It would be unimaginably ignorant to believe that all social groups within society are capable of having that influence.
    All human beings are theoretically capable of being oppressive; however, we don't live in a world that is based in hypotheticals.

    Homosexual men and women stereotyping and creating terms such as "Breeders" about heterosexuals is unacceptable without question; however, there is no denying that those stereotypes and slurs do not have even slightly as much sociological influence as the stereotypes and slurs that are encouraged by the heterosexuals, who comprise the majority and therefore hold the most social power. Encouraging the stereotyping and scrutiny of gender, sexual, and racial minorities leads to violence, mass discrimination, and institutionalized oppression. The stereotyping and insulting of heterosexuals leads to hurt feelings.

    Simply because they are both morally wrong does not make them even slightly equal.
     
    #21 Gen, Feb 7, 2015
  2. robotman

    robotman
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    Hm... If my partner used a racial slur against me as a means of attack in a heated argument then I don't think I would be able to forgive them for it, I think that if race is something that they use to offend that they feel a certain way about that race. It all depends on context aswell but I probably wouldn't feel comfortable around them to be honest.
     
    #22 robotman, Feb 7, 2015
  3. Austin

    Austin
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    This:

    Appears to imply that only Caucasians are capable of using racial slurs. Isn't that in itself slightly racist? Why are Caucasians the only people capable of being rude to other ethnic groups? And I just noticed by your definition you weren't even considering prejudice in your question, just racism. So how did we get on that topic?

    Hey! I took Sociology 1, I am an expert. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: But seriously, I think it's actually rather ignorant to think that only one group of individuals is capable of oppressing all the others in this world of 7 billion people. Isn't there, for example, a bunch of different ethnic groups in China; some of which are discriminated against by the majority group? I watch the Japanese channel often and know that Koreans are discriminated against, as well as Indonesians. I believe your post is what sociologists would call "rather ethnocentric."

    As mentioned above even in countries with hardly any Caucasian people there is ethnic tensions between different groups.

    Anyways, all this because I was annoyed by your implication that only Caucasian people can use racial slurs.
     
    #23 Austin, Feb 7, 2015
  4. Gen

    Gen
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    The nature of this thread was that it was speaking about minorities within our community. There is no doubt that prejudice has equal opportunity of arising in all individuals. I have never said that all Caucasian people are racists. I never said that they are the only ones capable of being racist. I said that the weight of stereotypes and slurs created by members of the majority and thrown at minorities groups is greater. They have more influence and they have the ability to do more damage.

    For instance, insulting the masculinity of an average cisgender male is insensitive and harmful. Insulting and negating the gender identity of a transgender individual will cause far more damage on both a internal and social scale. It carries more weight. It does more harm. Both actions are unacceptable, but we cannot deny that there effects are equal. Referring to a cisgender person as a "cisgender demon" or whatever the tumblr radicals are throwing around this days would be insensitive of a transgender partner, but that is not even close to being comparable to referring to a transgender person with known slurs that do not need to be explicitly said in this thread.
    The entire point of this discussion is that it is in reference to interracial relationships. There is a clear difference between ethnicity, nationality, and race. Ethnic tensions in Asian countries exists. Racial slurs among those societies do not exist. Why? Because they are both of the same race.

    You are taking this small, specific topic on the subject of prejudice and expanded it to mean more than what it is. This thread specifically asks how members would react when confronted with notorious racial, sexual, or gender slurs by those close to them. This isn't a thread about fetishization. This isn't a thread about discrimination. This isn't even a thread about prejudice in all forms. This is quite literally just a thread about the usage of loaded slurs on certain groups.

    Similar to the apathy you would feel when in a situation that this thread addresses, I would be completely apathetic towards someone attacking my lack of religious belief. If there were slurs for non-religious people, then I would most likely laugh them off; however, I recognize that slurs directed towards me on that subject would not be comparable to slurs directed at Muslims. Because of the society that we live in, they are not equatable.

    There genuinely isn't a bigger rhetoric or agenda to this subject. It isn't that those who aren't people of color or gender minorities have not seen prejudice directed their way. It is simply that much like the misgendering of transgender people has a greater affect than the misgendering of cisgendering people, there is just no denying that there is an effect that specific language has on certain groups that isn't felt by others. Would the use of a slur that has a history of being directed towards your marginalized group be deal breaking in your relationship? There is literally nothing more.
     
    #24 Gen, Feb 7, 2015
  5. andhow

    andhow
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    I have a problem with this. You're blurring the lines between power projection/tyranny of the majority with the concept of discrimination. Those who have a discriminatory mindset will become oppressors if given power (even if they are a minority--see: Rwandan Genocide). Groups may not have the same amount of power/influence, but that is not the root cause of oppression. You're essentially saying that discriminating against heterosexuals is not that bad because of the power dynamic that exists (I.e. prejudice vs racism). Then what about when straight people go to clubs and get told off by gay people (I have first-hand experience in this)? To me it's actually worse if you're an oppressed class and you would have the gall to discriminate against somebody else. Basically, power + prejudice = institionalized discrimination. So, if you're gay and prejudiced against straight people, you're only one step away from being an outright BIGOT.

    Which, to your point, I am conceding that prejudice without power does have less weight, but I just don't feel comfortable with the idea of assuming power structures/dynamics between groups are permanent. It's like the female oppression argument. There are tons of studies that prove women are essentially better to do in every aspect of modern lie (greater employment, life expectancy, enrollment in school, better performance in school/standardized tests, graduation rate), yet the western world still lives in this false paradigm of overwhelming patriarchy. Simply because of history. There is very little empirical evidence left to prove women in western societies are universally disadvantaged against men. So while I can appreciate what was true, I find people fail to look at the present factually.
     
    #25 andhow, Feb 7, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
  6. Nekoko

    Nekoko
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    Honestly I can't give an answer to the poll question... because I don't know, it depends on the situation and the person and many many things but... I'll answer these questions to the best of my ability...

    How would you react if a cisgender individual used a slur or attacked your identity or expression in the heat of the moment?
    With a dear friend or loved one? I would probably be very upset, partly because we'd had such a heated argument to begin with but that would be the cherry on top of an already heavy sunday of emotion... In a lot of ways I'm sure I would see they are trying to hurt me and that would hit even harder... But I don't know... I feel like I would definitely feel betrayed, I'm not out to a lot of people so that would hit me pretty hard too... It's hard to say until it happens though... which is hopefully never... :icon_sad: I'd like to point out it wouldn't matter if they were cisgender or not, being trans wouldn't excuse them from trying to hurt me like that...

    Would it be possible for you to rebuild trust with them?
    Something that should be understood is that, as a transgender individual in the closet, I am constantly unintentionally hurt by my loved ones, like non-stop and they have no idea that they are doing it. It takes a LOT of understanding and patience to survive being misgendered on a regular basis. I will say it DOES hit harder when it comes from someone I'm out to. At the same time I have to understand that this is a new thing to them, thinking about me as I properly am, there are going to be slip ups and there are going to be misunderstandings. It is by the sheer force of the love I feel for these individuals that I'm willing to put up with it and forgive such things... So honestly I am capable of forgiving anything, in a lot of ways I kind of have to be.. I honestly feel like being mad is pointless to me... but again, this all depends on the situation and the person... How much do I want them in my life to begin with? So who knows... If I couldn't trust them anymore I'd be pretty upset about that...

    Would you even make the effort? Or would you immediately cut ties?
    Honestly, my perspective is it's not my job to make the effort, it's theirs. If they want to make amends for what they did then they better get on that... some expensive sorbet is a good start~ I don't cut ties easily, but I wouldn't make any sort of effort to talk to them about it.... I'm passive aggressive...
     
    #26 Nekoko, Feb 7, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
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