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Prejudice against transitioned persons, even in allegedly safe spaces

Discussion in 'Gender Identity and Expression' started by QuietPeace, May 15, 2021.

  1. SteveBi45

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    This is really interesting for me. As someone who is bisexual I am attracted to men and women regardless of their birth assignment. As someone said it’s about more than just physical sex.

    I questioned for a long time if I was therefore pansexual, but for me personally this means something entirely different. Pan is open to all genders, including non-binary, etc. I couldn’t be with someone who doesn’t identify as a man or a woman, which is why I consider myself bi.
     
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  2. LostInDaydreams

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    I agree that this is interesting. The thing to remember here is that labels are more “best fit” than perfect descriptions and might mean different things to different people. This is where making generalisations can be really unhelpful, because even between people who use the same label there might be different interpretations and expressions of that label.

    Speaking for myself, the physical elements are important and I don’t just mean genitals either. I have had sex with a (cis) man and there were lots of things that I didn’t find attractive about him, such as his broad shoulders and the way he smelt. That experience has informed my understanding of my sexuality and my knowledge of what I do and do not find attractive, and there are some things that I cannot overcome or compromise on. However, I am also aware that everyone is different and a person’s gender identity does not mean that they necessarily have a particular physical trait. For me, I would be happy to date somebody who identified as non-binary as long as I was physically attracted to them and I don’t think that means that I can’t identify lesbian as the label that I feel fits best overall.
     
    #22 LostInDaydreams, May 22, 2021
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
  3. clockworkfox

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    Precisely!!

    At the present, I'm most comfortable identifying as gay. I would happily consider dating anyone, cis or trans, binary or nonbinary, if there was mutual attraction and we got along well. But for the most part, I'm attracted to guys, so identifying as bi or pan doesn't really feel like the best fit...it seems a little misleading.

    For the longest time, identifying as gay felt misleading, because I'm trans and gender nonconforming, and I avoided talking about my sexuality for ages because trans people get invalidated constantly as it is. But the type of relationship I'm after isn't a straight relationship, and I know because I tried dating guys before I fully understood myself as a trans person, and it didn't work because I'm just not cis and I can't Woman comfortably.

    I guess what I'm getting at is that, since sexuality is a spectrum, there's a lot of grey, and there's room for trans people across all of that grey, not only at specific finite points. I think that's something to try to talk about more, and normalize more.
     
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  4. ErickWolf

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    I think talking about things as a spectrum really needs to be more of a thing. And also discussing the (difficult/touchy as they may be) topics of stuff like prejudice, attraction, etc. Imo there's a fine line between straight-up prejudice or transphobia, and simply not being attracted to somebody.

    Like if someone gave me shit because I'm trans, I would consider that transphobia, but if it was simply a "you have (or don't have) xyz and that's personally just not my cuppa tea," I'd be cool with it. Human attraction and relationships and shit are way more complicated and nuanced than people tend to really get into, tbh.

    Okay editing bc idk if I did the best job wording that: If someone went, "you're not a 'real' man, I see you as a woman and am therefore not attracted to you," imo that's not cool. If someone went, "you're a man and I acknowledge that, but I'm into d*ck and I personally am not attracted to you," imo that's fine and perfectly understandable and valid.
     
    #24 ErickWolf, May 23, 2021
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
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  5. ErickWolf

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    Since the editing timer ran out: Like. I see it as the same thing as someone, say, being attracted to (or not attracted to) tall guys, hairy guys, short guys, whatever. If it's just preference and not because of prejudice, then imo there's no issue and it's totally valid and fine.
     
  6. QuietPeace

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    For me, I see someone being only into a particular body part as a fetish pretty much the same as if they would be into an amputee. I have had people be into me because I have that part and I find it totally offensive and if that is what makes them want to be with me then in my opinion they do not see me as a woman. (as an aside I do not see the point in "editing" out letters in a word, if a word is going to be used just use it but that is a different discussion)
     
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  7. ErickWolf

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    That's valid too; honestly this is a complicated subject and I think there's no one "right" answer. I agree that being into somebody only for one thing like that is kinda...ehh. Fetish-y. One instance I've seen it is where apparently some people are only into trans people for, well. The junk they got. And imo that's kinda gross and makes me uncomfortable. Like imo there's a difference between having personal preferences versus being into someone only for something like that or in a fetish type of way.

    And oh no by edit I just meant I wanted to add that onto what I'd already written but the 5 minute timer thing ran out and it wouldn't let me.

    Edit: UGH I'm dumb and tired and I posted this in the wrong thread, I think, because this one is similar to that other one and I had a few tabs open to read stuff. Dammit.
     
    #27 ErickWolf, May 23, 2021
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
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  8. QuietPeace

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    I understood that. What I was referring to was typing d*ck instead of just typing dick. In my opinion if the word can clearly be understood even through the "masking" just use the word. Maybe this is an ASD thing but if I find a word offensive I just don't use it and if a word is not offensive then I just use it. (though maybe a different thread should be created to discuss that issue)
     
    #28 QuietPeace, May 23, 2021
    Last edited: May 23, 2021
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  9. ErickWolf

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    Ah - I see what you mean now. That's valid! If it's not considered offensive, gross, etc for here then I may just type stuff like that out without doing that, next time.
     
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  10. clockworkfox

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    I am in agreement, 100%. But when their reasoning is simply that they want dick, I always feel like the joke's on them...I can have any dick I want. If I wanted to, I could have a different dick every night of the week.

    That said, if someone really has an issue with my given anatomy, then there's no changing that, and that's ok - different strokes for different folks. Just be respectful and it's all good.
     
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  11. PatrickUK

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    I have followed this thread with interest and the one thing that is apparent is the range of views/opinions that exist within the whole LGBT+ community. I would politely suggest that we try to live with that diversity of opinion.

    What it boils down to is how we (as individuals) define transphobia and what we consider as transphobic discrimination. I tend to think of transphobia in the same way as homophobia - a prejudice based on irrational fears and dogmatic ideas about sexuality and gender identity. Maybe you have a narrower or broader understanding? Merriam-Webster gives the following dictionary definition:

    Is it transphobic to exclude trans people from your dating pool? Some say it is and just as many say not. Who is right and who is wrong? Maybe the answer is neither. The only thing I would suggest on the back of this is to be careful before labelling people who are otherwise supportive and affirming as transphobic, because that's not a good way to win hearts and minds. What we have seen in this thread is an open dialogue with people (for the most part) taking time to really consider the issues. That's much healthier than a slanging match between people with closed minds, with labels flying everywhere.

    By remaining calm and reasonable we are giving each other things to think about and consider. That's how we move things forward in a mature and sensible way. Some people will remain unmoved while others will go away and look at it anew. That's a good thing! :slight_smile:
     
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  12. Redbud123

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    As someone who mostly dates straight for the following reasons, I feel like it may be a good thing to mention. Note: (I've never "officially" dated men, despite how borderline romantic some of my relationships with them have been,)

    The thing is, I have always wanted to start a family and have my own genetic kids. I want to see a little bit of myself in them, and a little bit of their mother. Passing on a bit of yourself to the next generation in such a way seems just amazing to me, and I really want that. For me, I wouldn't mind whether the person was trans or not when it comes to romantic attraction, as I can emotionally and romantically bond to anyone, but not being able to have kids with them would give me pause, (as terrible as that may sound to some people.)

    I mean, this would also end up being a problem if a cis woman I loved turned out to be infertile too. But, probably if I loved the person enough, I could see myself being willing to compromise on that. It's not everyday you find someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. I would feel a bit sad for the loss of such an opportunity though.
     
  13. QuietPeace

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    I have never understood this wish but that is an entirely different discussion.
     
  14. Redbud123

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    Fair enough. :wink:

    Maybe it's partly from being raised in a family household where everybody was so very similar. We all kinda look and act a lot like each other, and are very close. My brother and I can often know what the other is thinking without asking. Maybe growing up in that environment, I got the idea that family was supposed to be like an extension of yourself, or something. Maybe it IS a bit odd, now that I think of it.
     
  15. SteveBi45

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    I have a similar mentality and have always wanted to have a family and to raise children of my own. Perhaps it comes from my upbringing with a close family. I didn't see it so much as an extension of me, but in my case I was the only boy in the family, so the idea of keeping the family name continuing for another generation was important to me.
     
  16. QuietPeace

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    My family is basically all people who I share a nose with but who's beliefs are diametrically opposed to mine. They want nothing to do with me and I return the sentiment. This could be part of the difference. I also did have children because it was "the thing to do" and it ranks right up there with my worst mistakes in life. There are also too many people already on the planet and way too many children who need caring parents that could be adopted.
     
  17. Redbud123

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    Oof. Sorry to hear that. Having an unsupportive family is really tough. You're right. There are a lot of people in "found families" and whose bonds can be just as strong as blood. Family is where the heart is, I suppose.
     
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  18. clockworkfox

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    That's another fair thing to consider! If parenthood is something you really want someday, that's something worth disclosing right from the start with a potential partner - I would hate to take that chance away from somebody, because I know that I never want biological children of my own.
     
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