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Lesser-known gender identities/sexualities, and all others

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by AnAtypicalGuy, Nov 24, 2016.

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  1. AnAtypicalGuy

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    I feel like there is an urgent need for something like this. There are so, SO many sexualities and gender identities out there that go almost completely unnoticed, even by those who are educated on LGBT+ matters. This is why I've made this thread, to give the under-represented people in our community the chance to speak out, and to make themselves known to more people. Just write a post explaining your sexuality and/or gender, what it means to identify as such, and any other things that you feel need to be mentioned.

    People of all sexualities and genders are welcome to post here, even if they are more widely-known, in order to clear up any stereotypes or misconceptions that seem to run rampant elsewhere, or even just to let other people in on how your mind works.

    Let's see how this catches on.
     
  2. AgenderMoose

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    Oh. Ohhhhh this is pleasant.

    Okay, so I guess explanation time, since I kinda qualify as lesser-known. Let's break it down:

    Panromantic means I feel romantic attraction to anyone, regardless of gender. In fact, in my instance, I'm kinda "genderblind", meaning I don't really see much difference in a person based on their gender.

    Asexual means that I feel no sexual attraction. I myself am sex-repulsed, meaning that there is absolutely nothing about sex that allures me and I have no desire to perform the act (also, in my case, I sometimes get gaggy/sick to my stomach when I think about it/consider the idea)

    Agender means I am gender neutral and I'm pretty solid in the neutral position. As it says in my little side info, my pronouns are they/them because of it.

    Aaaand, that's that. This is a really wonderful idea for a thread, for people to learn things about the LGBT+ spectrum that are usually in the background. Thanks for making this!
     
  3. Nightdream

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    My sexuality and gender identity are very well known, but some people still think my sexual orientation don't exist, so...

    Bisexual: I am bisexual because I happen to feel attraction towards men and women regardless of the gender they were assumed to be at birth. I'm not sure about non-binary people, but I'm open to them too. I'm not genderblind, sorry to say that. It's not an entirely bad thing as it doesn't stop me from admiring my partner for who they are. I just think their gender is an important part of them.

    Female: That's a hard one to explain. I just happen to feel more empathy towards women in the sense that I feel like people are talking about me when they say "women are/women do" and I preffer feminine pronouns to myself. I'm not very feminine, but I know that I am a woman.
     
  4. Eris

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    Graygender - a gender identity where you are mostly ambivalent of your gender. you feel that you have a gender(s) but its too insignificant for you to name it. its partially or mostly out of the gender binary.

    i think its not as well known, but it fit my state quite perfectly. to put simply, its a lovely label built on the confusion one has with regards to their own gender. as for my pronouns, i dont even know. it'd be great if no one used pronouns on me altogether. it isnt that significant since i mostly do not feel gender dysphoria.
     
  5. Chip

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    Empty Closets, from a policy perspective, takes an evidence-based approach to the information it conveys and disseminates.

    People can choose to call themselves any label they wish. I can be gray-this, lithromantic-that, unicornsexual, or claim to be mayonnaise gender or moon gender. It's my right.

    But all of the above are utterly without the slightest shred of support from anyone credible anywhere. The only place you will find these validated is Tumblr,or AVEN, neither of which are credible sources.

    So... Use the label if you feel the need to be special. But where we draw the line is in validating unrecognized labels, because it serves no purpose and actually gets in the way of communication and clarity.

    Further, for clarity's sake, 'asexual', if we are using the widely accepted definition, is a hardwired sexual orientation in the same way as homo or heterosexuality. It is rare, and it is having absolutely no sex drive whatsoever. 'Sex repulsed' is different, and does not fit the widely used definition, as it is on the spectrum of disorders, rather than sexual orientations.

    Additionally, there is no credible evidence of a separation between romantic and sexual orientation. If the label works, then use it, but if you are considering it, seriously consider that there's no evidence to support this idea and most likely you are actually dealing with a more common identity (for example, being gay but having close, intimate friendships with girls instead of being heteroromantic homosexual.)

    Also... Before anybody gets offended...To be clear, nobody is questioning the validity of bisexuality. That one has been around for decades, and is widely studied and recognized.
     
  6. Eris

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    understood. however..

    ..i'd like to point out that the lack of credible, scientific sources could be due to the fact that non-binary gender identities in general are not widely studied upon and thus not recognized. i think a lot of NBs like me just fly under the radar because it's such a touchy topic to talk about - many people reject the idea that there are identities outside of the gender binary. as such, it's really difficult to obtain an adequate sample size to conduct scientific research on NBs.

    i do not use the label to be "special". i know some people do it for attention, but i am not.

    i have attempted to conform to binary identities before - trans ftm, demiboy - and also those out of it - agender and even genderqueer - all of these did not resonate to me.

    it is true that i found this term on some website that is not credible (it was an online "wiki" site), but the description of "graygender" resonated with me. it was one of the most liberating experience i've ever experienced, and i felt relieved that there was a term for how i feel.

    gender identities by nature are an experience of how an individual perceives themselves. i could call myself a "biological female" for the sake of "communication and clarity", but am i really a female? i dont think so. am i male? i feel a small part of that identity within me, but calling it "demiboy" is already exaggerating it. calling myself a NB more effectively communicates to others and can even raise awareness of the fact that there are people who do not feel gender the same way as others do.

    so i acknowledge the fact that "graygender" sounds like a term made to gain special snowflake attention but, it really is not. whether people accept this or not is up to them, after all, the flat earth theory was also not widely recognized.

    ---------- Post added 25th Nov 2016 at 04:30 AM ----------

    o rip too bad i cant edit the post^
    correction to last sentence: "the flat earth theory was widely recognized whereas the fact that the earth is round was not"
     
  7. Flowey

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    I anticipate the next argument for endless non-binary gender to be "homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness and in fact, many Christian organizations are pushing that idea. They are wrong about that one therefore they must be wrong about the other one too"
     
  8. Linkmaste

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    Oh! This is a nice idea I think I'll comment on this.

    Well for myself lesbian and female are common. I had a little bit of a flexibility because I enjoy men's clothes and I had a husband but denial does make us do drastic things. Right now I enjoy labeling myself the way I am but I enjoy men and women wear, I am very sexual and I am very lesbian.

    Now I have a friend who is Two-Spirited and she's a little tricky. She had a gf but she's very masculine as in short hair, traditionally masculine clothing, and binds herself often. If there is someone who identifies as two spirited I believe that you're input will be great here! Not many people can tell the difference but through my knowledge it's an aboriginal term meaning you have a male and a female soul placed inside you.

    Please correct me if needed I do love a good lesson on different labels and sexualities.
     
  9. Chip

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    This is simply not true. Sexuality, sexual orientation, sexual interaction, relationships communication, and all of these issues have been studied literally tens of thousands of times over the past 40+ years (with limited studies before that reaching back 80 years.)

    People use this argument (as well as the extremely tired "Well, homosexuality was once a disorder" argument) to try to argue that all of these flavors-of-the-week are valid and simply haven't been studied. And yet, all of the various interactions, beliefs, self-descriptions *have* in fact been studied, ad nauseum. Additionally, the way that human evolution works, you don't suddenly pop up with a million variations over 40 years (let alone 5 to 10 when most of the unrecognized labels have popped up, unsurprisingly coincident with communities like Tumblr and AVEN).

    Again, people are perfectly entitled to use whatever label they want to use... just don't try to represent them as credible, validated labels. And the issue with using labels for which there's no grounding, scientific basis, study, and which nobody credible acknowledges is that... there's nothing on which to base the meanings. At that point, it becomes meaningless. "I'm moon gender"... "I'm mayonnaise-romantic"... "I'm gray-lithro-magical-unicorn-sexual" ... 20 people on a blog or discussion community agreeing that something means something doesn't generalize to the population. So... have at it, but don't expect anyone outside of these tiny, insular communities to have any clue what you're talking about, and don't expect to see any wide acceptance of these labels without study and research which... as I said... has pretty much already shown that all of these labels fit well within the ordinary context of already existing and validated labels.

    Then use it.


    That's a new argument. It goes in the same category as the other two I spoke about above.
     
  10. Dingdang

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    It doesn't matter if there's scientific evidence proving that some gender identities or sexual orientations are real, because we can all choose to respect people for whatever labels they apply to themselves.

    In the end, you are who you are, and you say you are who you think you are, so the labels you adopt can be independent of your essence.
     
  11. Chiroptera

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    I'll echo what Chip said, and include this: Be careful when using uncommon terms, especially if you are an activist. Sure, if you feel good using a label that isn't popular, go ahead, you are free to do it. But most people won't know the meaning of the word, and, if you are talking about it, you will have to explain it (which makes the label useless, since you could simply explain your attractions without it).

    What i mean is: Creating too many labels makes communication harder. In my opinion, it is better to use a popular label and then explain the differences in each case. In my case, i use bisexual instead of pansexual, for example, because, even if my attractions aren't restricted to the cis genders, the label "bisexual" is more common, so it is easier to use it and the explain the details in my case.

    If we create a new label for every tiny difference that exists, we will end up with a different label for each human in this planet. Because we are all unique.

    Again, i'm not saying you cannot use a certain label. You may choose any label that you want. But it is much easier and efficient to explain the particularities in each case than to create a word for every small detail that we find.

    It is true, as long as there is respect, then we are fine. However, creating too many labels without scientific evidence makes communication harder, and therefore, makes educating people harder.
     
  12. Creativemind

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    I just call myself a lesbian, but by some definitions I could also be "gray-asexual". I've only felt sexual attraction to maybe three people in my life, all of which I knew for a while. I'm not physically attracted to strangers, I have a low sex drive, and low sexual interests in general. I could live my life without it and not complain.

    I wish I could just call myself a lesbian without people assuming what that means though. Too many times am I assumed to want to fuck every girl I see, that I'm a horndog, that I notice "hot chicks" in the media (in all honesty, they look unrealistic/photoshopped...so meh). I hate how oversexualized the word is and how I have to explain a paragraph of my sexual interests when it gets brought up.
     
  13. Browncoat

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    And yet, it's been made clear that you and others who identify like you aren't welcome here. Lovely, right?
     
  14. Chip

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    There's a fine line that we have to walk here, so it's important to be clear on this:

    Anyone is welcomed to label him or herself any way s/he wishes to do so. No one should ever feel unwelcomed because s/he chooses to use an unrecognized label.

    At the same time, EC has a responsibility to its community to ensure that accurate, evidence-based information is made available, because the community serves to provide the accurate, evidence-based, scientifically validated information that people can rely on in order to make wise decisions about their choices. That's one of the reasons we don't, for example, permit discussion that implies that it is possible to change one's sexual orientation, because that's a long-settled issue. For the most part, the issue on unrecognized labels is as well.

    By the same token, we must walk a fine line between validating the right of individuals to identify as they wish, while, at the same time, providing accurate information about what is and is not widely accepted, so that individuals who have not yet made these decisions can use factual information and understand the implications and potential downsides of choosing unrecognized identities.

    If, after being provided with the information that there's no credible evidence, research, acceptance among the broad community, or acceptance among the overwhelming majority of professionals, researchers, therapists, and other in the field to support the idea of the various unrecognized labels, someone chooses to use one, for whatever reason, then it is absolutely his or her choice to reject that information and label him or herself accordingly.

    What we do not support is advocating for or otherwise implying that these labels are widely recognized and/or validated, or that there's any evidence supporting them, because there is no such evidence or validation.

    It's a difficult line to walk. The intent is not to imply that someone is not welcome because s/he uses an unrecognized label, but simply to accurately inform people so that they can have good information on which to base their own decisions.
     
  15. AnAtypicalGuy

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    Honestly, I don't know what to think of all this. I started this thread hoping that people would get to know about other lesser-known gender identities, and possibly find that they can indeed identify with other people. My own best friend is struggling to come out as asexual and genderfluid to their otherwise open parents, purely because they don't know how to explain their lesser-known identity and how they feel. Furthermore, I've talked to a number of people in this forum who were struggling to find their identity/sexuality because they really did not fit into any of the widely-known terms. Where would genderfluidity fit into one of five categories: male, female, MTF, FTM or agender? What about demigenders for that matter? Where would abrosexuality (sexual fluidity) fit into the categories of gay, straight, bisexual or asexual?

    Just because there are already well-known, established terms for many sexualities and genders, it doesn't mean that all of them have been accounted for.
     
  16. Irisviel

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    I need to say I agree with the moderators. I just wish the same standard was applied to the gender identity section, many confused people are told they might belong to some of those labels. Self diagnosis is imperfect enough, and the gender identity forum on EC isn't different than tumblr.
     
  17. Nightdream

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    I'm not here to claim that I have the same problem as most people here, but I know personally many people that do not take bisexuality seriously and I'm yet to meet a person that does believe that bisexual men exist. I see people questioning how valid bisexuality really is even on the media, so it's not as widelly accepted as most people think even with scientific research. By the way, most people do not think any LGBT+ person is normal and healthy even with research saying otherwise.
     
  18. Austin

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    Male gender because that is my biological gender and I never grew up with any qualms over it. I don't feel particular masculine (or feminine) so I just identify mentally by my XY genetics.

    Gay because I am sexually and romantically attracted to men, for the most part.
     
  19. Bobsleigh1

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    For Chip specifically, seeing an Administrator for a place I've referred to as a sort of "online safe haven" for the people who already feel out of place enough in the world invalidate the identities of real people and trivialize their experiences with their gender like this is the type of thing that makes me consider leaving this site behind. Especially if your speaking for the entirety of EC like you claim to be. I don't want to let others look for support in a place that they're clearly not welcome in by EC themselves.
    This hurtful intent is not what the threadstarter wanted when making this, they aimed to help people, they were doing something productive with their time, what you're saying here is helping nobody, not even yourself, so how about keep your mouth shut.

    Chiroptera however, i completely understand what you're saying and, on one hand, i agree with you; too many labels does create a lot of confusion. However, if the person using these lesser-known labels does not mind explaining, or maybe even enjoys teaching others of lesser-known groups of very real people in assistance of those people, then it really isn't your problem. I suppose you could say it would be your problem if you were on the receiving end of a person using a lesser-known label's required explanation because then you'd have to sit through that explanation, but, really, it's not your place to choose how other's live. And why would learning something new be so bad? You don't even have to believe in what they're teaching you of, just let people be who they feel they are. It shouldn't bother you. And if you're worried about teaching people "incorrect or personally unsupported information" like Chip seems to be, then just know that people have the ability to formulate their own opinions of things and should be allowed to have those opinions; you can't choose what others believe in and you can't choose others' labels either. And if they don't learn of the things you don't believe in here, then they're going to learn it somewhere else. You seem to be trying to stop the spread of something you believe to be akin to some kind of "contamination" when really it's nothing of the sort and shouldn't have to bother you. And, honestly, you worded it like a warning, was "be careful when" really necessary? It just means having to give a quick summary of your gender which bothers no one aside from those unsupportive, it's not that dramatic.
    P.S. Sweet avatar.

    To both of you, I don't mean to be rude, but what both of you are saying is helping nobody. Most of us understand what you mean, but, in the end, what are you trying to achieve by hurting the users of these labels?
    I don't mean to sound like a self-proclaimed mod but... negativity was not the intent of this thread, nor was it necessary. Thank you for your time (if you even read this, i mean, i dunno, i don't own you...).

    Also, sorry i'm not really contributing to the actual intention of the thread either :icon_redf , i just wanted to share my side of conversation in defense of the people who possibly feel a little unwelcome using their labels here now due to what the mods have said...
     
  20. Irisviel

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    Please don't try to guilt trip others by basing argument on emotion, it serves no purpose.

    And it's important to point this out considering people then go to say gender identity section and "diagnose" confused people using labels that are not fact based. EC is a safe place to get help, not to be fed misinformation from tumblr.
     
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